Not so powerful God?

[Godistruth1]

The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron." (Judges 1:19 NIV)

Why were the men of judah not able to defeat the people of the hill country even of God was with them. Are chariots of iron more powerful than God of the bible?

 

[Lukaris]

I think the devout Old Testament people worshiped God as best they could while fighting for survival. Their sense of God on the individual level was within a harsh environment and probably understood as too intimate when suffering. It is easy for me to say this of course and I remember the Lord said that salvation is of the Jews ( John 4:21-26 ).

 

[cloudyday2]

"The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron." (Judges 1:19 NIV)

What if I wrote:
"God was with Joe. Joe was able to win many running competitions, but Joe was unable to defeat Sam, because he had Nike running shoes."

Would you understand that to mean that Nike running shoes are more powerful than God? No, you would understand that to mean that God helped Joe run better, but God didn't help Joe enough to beat Sam. Maybe God was with Sam too. Maybe Joe should have saved enough money to buy Nike running shoes like Sam did. Who knows?

 

[ananda]

"The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron." (Judges 1:19 NIV)

What if I wrote:
"God was with Joe. Joe was able to win many running competitions, but Joe was unable to defeat Sam, because he had Nike running shoes."

Would you understand that to mean that Nike running shoes are more powerful than God? No, you would understand that to mean that God helped Joe run better, but God didn't help Joe enough to beat Sam. Maybe God was with Sam too. Maybe Joe should have saved enough money to buy Nike running shoes like Sam did. Who knows?

Other translations suggest different subjects:

• e.g. KJV "And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
• RSV "And the LORD was with Judah, and he took possession of the hill country, but he could not drive out the inhabitants of the plain, because they had chariots of iron."
• ESV "And the LORD was with Judah, and he took possession of the hill country, but he could not drive out the inhabitants of the plain because they had chariots of iron."
• ASV "And Jehovah was with Judah; and drove out the inhabitants of the hill-country; for he could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
• WEB "And the LORD was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

Using your example: "God was with Joe. God was able to win many running competitions, but God was unable to defeat Sam, because Sam had Nike running shoes."

 

[cloudyday2]

Other translations suggest different subjects:

• e.g. KJV "And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
• RSV "And the LORD was with Judah, and he took possession of the hill country, but he could not drive out the inhabitants of the plain, because they had chariots of iron."
• ESV "And the LORD was with Judah, and he took possession of the hill country, but he could not drive out the inhabitants of the plain because they had chariots of iron."
• ASV "And Jehovah was with Judah; and drove out the inhabitants of the hill-country; for he could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
• WEB "And the LORD was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

Using your example: "God was with Joe. God was able to win many running competitions, but God was unable to defeat Sam, because Sam had Nike running shoes."

The "he" seems to refer to the tribe of Judah. If you read the entire chapter you will notice other instances where Judah and Simeon are referred to as "he" even though the founders of those tribes died centuries earlier.

I am looking at the Jewish Publication Society 1917 Tanakh, because that is supposed to be a good one. You can download a PDF.
THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, Tanakh 1917 edition | The Jewish Publication Society

 

[Jonaitis]

The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron." (Judges 1:19 NIV)

Why were the men of judah not able to defeat the people of the hill country even of God was with them. Are chariots of iron more powerful than God of the bible?

It was fear and doubt [from the men of Judah] that prevented them from overtaking the plains. They feared what appeared to be great military strength, and likely gave up the fight against the men.

God promised Israel, "For you shall drive out the Canaanites, though they have chariots of iron, and though they are strong" (Joshua 17:18). By this clear inference, we see that God knew they feared what appeared to be great military strength of that time by adding those words and proceeded to encouraged them. Yet, we see in this particular circumstance, they become discouraged and lose the fight. However, this was not the only time Israel fought against an army with iron chariots. King Jabin, in chapter four, had 900 iron chariots and lost to Israel. It is isolating a text to fit an argument, while disregarding the context.

Obviously, anyone with a brain understands how ridiculous it sounds to think God was unable to overtake mere men riding iron made chariots, when he created both men and the materials for them to build it.

Edit: added a few more things.

 

[Godistruth1]

"The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron." (Judges 1:19 NIV)

What if I wrote:
"God was with Joe. Joe was able to win many running competitions, but Joe was unable to defeat Sam, because he had Nike running shoes."

Would you understand that to mean that Nike running shoes are more powerful than God? No, you would understand that to mean that God helped Joe run better, but God didn't help Joe enough to beat Sam. Maybe God was with Sam too. Maybe Joe should have saved enough money to buy Nike running shoes like Sam did. Who knows?

When the verse says God was with the men that means his help was with the men as still they were unable to beat the enemy. This is a situation of war not a running competition. It's a matter of life and death so if the help of the Lord is with the men nobody can defeat them

 

[Godistruth1]

It was fear and doubt [from the men of Judah] that prevented them from overtaking the plains. They feared what appeared to be great military strength, and likely gave up the fight against the men.

God promised Israel, "For you shall drive out the Canaanites, though they have chariots of iron, and though they are strong" (Joshua 17:18). By this clear inference, we see that God knew they feared what appeared to be great military strength of that time by adding those words and proceeded to encouraged them. Yet, we see in this particular circumstance, they become discouraged and lose the fight. However, this was not the only time Israel fought against an army with iron chariots. King Jabin, in chapter four, had 900 iron chariots and lost to Israel. It is isolating a text to fit an argument, while disregarding the context.

Obviously, anyone with a brain understands how ridiculous it sounds to think God was unable to overtake mere men riding iron made chariots, when he created both men and the materials for them to build it.

Edit: added a few more things.

What this proves is failed prophesy by God. God said u SHALL drive them out. Since it did not happen its not the word of God

 

[Jonaitis]

What this proves is failed prophesy by God. God said u SHALL drive them out. Since it did not happen its not the word of God

God did defeat the Canaanites with iron chariots, King Jabin is one example. What is so difficult in my post that you did not understand?

 

[Godistruth1]

God did defeat the Canaanites with iron chariots, King Jabin is one example. What is so difficult in my post that you did not understand?

Sorry my bad i somewhat got the idea that it referred to the inhabitants of mountain. As u said it sounds ridiculous that the men of judah were unable to defeat some people, thats why i asked the question. And thats what the bible says that they were unable to defeat the enemy even if God was with them. This makes me believe this is a made up lie against God in the bible. Lot of what's in the bible isnt reliable and lot of books have been removed and lot of verses have been removed

 

[cloudyday2]

When the verse says God was with the men that means his help was with the men as still they were unable to beat the enemy. This is a situation of war not a running competition. It's a matter of life and death so if the help of the Lord is with the men nobody can defeat them

War and diplomacy are two faces of the same coin. You can't have diplomacy without the threat of something such as a war or a trade embargo, and the goal of war is a new diplomatic agreement rather than annihilation/genocide.

According to archaeology the Israelites and Philistines had relatively friendly relations during the time of Judges. Neither was trying to annihilate the other.

Of course, there is some truth to what you say also. Just wanted to give an opposing view for balance.