Not so complicated...

[Douggg]

Satan can come and go freely. Isaiah 14 is addressing the whole history of Satan.

Satan has been cast out of the third heaven. And can only go there when summoned by God. Satan accuses, but it is from a distance.

When John was called up to heaven in Revelation where God's throne is in Revelation 5 and 6 - Satan was no where around in that scene, nor his third of the angels.

 

[Timtofly]

I can agree that when Satan entered Judas, it could be speaking metaphorically.

I don't think the image of the beast will be called the Messiah. But that the statue image of the beast comes to life and speaks will be because Satan incarnates the image, making it come to life and speak, but it will be a lying wonder.


Satan will be a terror when he is cast down to earth from the second heaven having great wrath. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Well only John lived the last 42 months so that time has not happened yet, I was speaking historically of Satan needing to be a dictator. With no more opportunity to be an Adversary, the role of dictator may come in handy.

 

[Timtofly]

Satan has been cast out of the third heaven. And can only go there when summoned by God. Satan accuses, but it is from a distance.

When John was called up to heaven in Revelation where God's throne is in Revelation 5 and 6 - Satan was no where around in that scene, nor his third of the angels.

I am not sure how you conclude anything off-limits to Satan until after the 7th trumpet. The third of the stars left heaven at the Flood or just prior. If they were bound because they caused trouble on earth prior to the Flood, we are not told. They definitely were bound when heaven and earth and under the earth was rearranged. Remember the fountains of the deep were emptied out of their water. Sheol was then a place where the fire never ends.

 

[Douggg]

I am not sure how you conclude anything off-limits to Satan until after the 7th trumpet. The third of the stars left heaven at the Flood or just prior. If they were bound because they caused trouble on earth prior to the Flood, we are not told. They definitely were bound when heaven and earth and under the earth was rearranged. Remember the fountains of the deep were emptied out of their water. Sheol was then a place where the fire never ends.

Satan and a third of the angels are not bound. They have free movement in the first and second heavens.

It is the third heaven that they have been expelled from ever since Satan's rebellion against God, the day that iniquity was found in him.

 

[Douggg]

Well only John lived the last 42 months so that time has not happened yet, I was speaking historically of Satan needing to be a dictator. With no more opportunity to be an Adversary, the role of dictator may come in handy.

Tim, I have no idea of what you are talking about regarding you saying "only John lived the 42 months".

And "Satan needing to be a dictator".

Satan is the great adversary to God because he opposes God, and is the father of lies and sin.

 

[chad kincham]

Satan cannot enter a person. The closest thing is Satan breathing life into the image. S

So this never happened?

Joh 13:26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.

Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him.

 

[chad kincham]

I believe that is wild speculation. Nowhere did Paul say anything about "the man of sin" dying and being resurrected or even hint at that. Plus, he wasn't even talking about an individual man of sin but of sinful man in general (opposite of "the man of God" in 1 Timothy 3:16-17). I know you can't accept that, so I won't waste my time trying to convince you.

So when the son of perdition aka the man of sin, steps into the temple in the middle of Daniels seventieth week and stops the sacrifice, it’s done by ‘sinful man in general’?

 

[BABerean2]

So when the son of perdition aka the man of sin, steps into the temple in the middle of Daniels seventieth week and stops the sacrifice, it’s done by ‘sinful man in general’?

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews for a period of about 7 years, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.
This was the 70th week of Daniel during the first century.

Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant?


The Messiah's death is in Daniel 9:26.

Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

.

 

[Douggg]

Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant?

And yet you don't believe. Jesus returns at the end of the 70th week, to fulfill the 70 weeks, and end the the transgression of desolation by the little horn person.

Jesus Himself is speaking in the text of Ezekiel 39:21-22 and the remainder of Ezekiel 39, having returned to this earth, at the end of the 7 years in Ezekiel 39 following the destruction of Gog's army.

There is zero possibility of this being wrong - which invalidates all of the interpretations you have of the Daniel 9 timeline.

 

[BABerean2]

And yet you don't believe. Jesus returns at the end of the 70th week, to fulfill the 70 weeks, and end the the transgression of desolation by the little horn person.

Jesus Himself is speaking in the text of Ezekiel 39:21-22 and the remainder of Ezekiel 39, having returned to this earth, at the end of the 7 years in Ezekiel 39 following the destruction of Gog's army.

There is zero possibility of this being wrong - which invalidates all of the interpretations you have of the Daniel 9 timeline.

If you ignore Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, when the Gospel was taken "first" to Israel (Paul's word, instead of mine), then maybe you can convince some people of a future 70th week of Daniel.
The rest of us know better.

I will ask it again.
What was Paul talking about in Romans 1:16, when he said the Gospel was taken "first" to Israel?
When was this time period, and how long did it last?

.

 

[Douggg]

I will ask it again.
What was Paul talking about in Romans 1:16, when he said the Gospel was taken "first" to Israel?
When was this time period, and how long did it last?

Why should I explain the whole bible, when Ezekiel 39, Jesus Himself having returned to this earth, speaking in the text proves that the 70th week has not take place yet?

You can ask a million questions - it does change what it says in Ezekiel 39.

 

[nolidad]

This is nowhere near as complicated as some of you are trying to make it.

the little horn>prince who shall come>the Antichrist>the revealed man of sin>the beast

The little horn is leader of the EU, King of the Roman empire end times.

the little horn>prince who shall come>the Antichrist>the revealed man of sin>the beast

Following Gog/Magog, the prince who shall come moves his EU army into the middle east on the premise of being peace keeper in the region.

the little horn>prince who shall come>the Antichrist>the revealed man of sin>the beast

The person is perceived by the Jews to be the promised King of Israel/messiah. And will be anointed the King of Israel, but coming in his own name. Anointed the King of Israel, he confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years.

the little horn>prince who shall come>the Antichrist>the revealed man of sin>the beast

In the middle of the 7 years, the person transgresses the Mt. Sinai covenant by claiming to be God. Revealing himself to be the man of sin, and not the messiah after all. The Jews reject him from continuing as their King of Israel, ending his time as the Antichrist.

the little horn>prince who shall come>the Antichrist>the revealed man of sin>the beast

After the revealed man of sin is killed and brought back to life, he is the beast for the remainder of the 7 years. The ten EU leaders hand their kingdom over to him to be dictator, King of the Roman empire in the end times.

Still pushing this though it has been biblically debunked I see.

Why do you ignore that the ten kings are ruling over the whole world and not just 10 EU Countries. That is old old dispensatrional thought that has been jettisoned by all even Dallas Theological where Pentecost taught!

And you saying the antichrists' will be crowned king of Israel is all supposition based on your own ideas and have no support biblically.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

I have read this tread and come to the conclusion that most of the posts are fictional and not supported by the bible.

No support in the bible for taking the 70th week and transporting it to the end of time.

 

[BABerean2]

Why should I explain the whole bible, when Ezekiel 39, Jesus Himself having returned to this earth, speaking in the text proves that the 70th week has not take place yet?

Maybe it is because we often cannot find any other human on the planet who accepts your attempts to "explain" the Bible.


If you have to ignore when the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews in Romans 1:16, and for how long that time period lasted, then you have revealed the truth about what you are saying.


The truth is found in Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18.

It is the Word of the living God, that cuts man-made doctrines like a double-edged sword.


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[Douggg]

Still pushing this though it has been biblically debunked I see.

Why do you ignore that the ten kings are ruling over the whole world and not just 10 EU Countries. That is old old dispensatrional thought that has been jettisoned by all even Dallas Theological where Pentecost taught!

And you saying the antichrists' will be crowned king of Israel is all supposition based on your own ideas and have no support biblically.

Jesus is the rightful King of Israel, coming in the name of the Lord. The Antichrist will be anointed the King of Israel, but coming in his own name.

Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[chad kincham]

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews for a period of about 7 years, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.
This was the 70th week of Daniel during the first century.

Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant?


The Messiah's death is in Daniel 9:26.

Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

.

Paul puts the son of perdition stepping into temple, as an event that must happen before Jesus comes again

Jesus put that same event during the tribulation and just before the end of the gentile age.

The tribulation will be the worst time of trouble the world will ever see.

Therefore the great tribulation is still future, because there’s no event that’s happened in world history, that’s worse than the whole world being at war in WW2, with 50 million deaths.

 

[chad kincham]

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews for a period of about 7 years, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.
This was the 70th week of Daniel during the first century.

Sorry but no cigar.

The 70th week absolutely has not happened - because by the end of the seventy weeks He will make an end of sins.

In case you haven’t noticed, lawlessness and sins, are increasing, and haven’t ended.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[BABerean2]

The 70th week absolutely has not happened - because by the end of the seventy weeks He will make an end of sins.

Do you expect Christ to die again?


Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.


Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.


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[BABerean2]

Paul puts the son of perdition stepping into temple, as an event that must happen before Jesus comes again

What is now the temple of God in the New Covenant?
What is the "chief cornerstone" of that temple?

Is it a rebuilt temple in earthly Jerusalem?

1Pe 2:4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,
1Pe 2:5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHIEF CORNERSTONE, ELECT, PRECIOUS, AND HE WHO BELIEVES ON HIM WILL BY NO MEANS BE PUT TO SHAME."
1Pe 2:7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE,"
1Pe 2:8 and "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
1Pe 2:10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.


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[Timtofly]

Tim, I have no idea of what you are talking about regarding you saying "only John lived the 42 months".

And "Satan needing to be a dictator".

Satan is the great adversary to God because he opposes God, and is the father of lies and sin.

John is one of the two witnesses. John is the witness to the Revelation of Jesus Christ. The two witnesses were a thorn in Satan's side for 42 months. I realize you do not concur with the timing, but those 42 months are the only concrete time established. That is if Satan even gets 42 months. The field being left as empty is not impossible for the church? Matthew 21:33-40

33 “Now listen to another parable. There was a farmer who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a tower; then he rented it to tenants and left.
34 When harvest-time came, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his share of the crop.
35 But the tenants seized his servants — this one they beat up, that one they killed, another they stoned.
36 So he sent some other servants, more than the first group, and they did the same to them.
37 Finally, he sent them his son, saying, ‘My son they will respect.’
38 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance!’
39 So they grabbed him, threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 Now when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”

This is an open ended question and parable. The 6th seal is God, the one who planted the vineyard returning. This time is about what is God going to do with the church who has had the vineyard for 1990 years. How many times has the church failed? How many men or women sent by God has the church killed?

Most importantly why is the harvest not full and gathered? Why are any souls left for Satan to sift as wheat. Why are the tares allowed to flourish? Why does Satan even need 42 months? The 144k are on the earth with Jesus during the trumpets and thunders that have been left a mystery to the church. Jesus Christ and the 144k leave Jerusalem. The only ones left during that time are the two witnesses, and one of them wrote about it and sent 7 copies of the account to 7 churches in the 1st century. The 42 months of witness, the 1260 days of the woman hidden, and the 3.5 years of the trodding of the Gentiles are the same period of Satan's Revelation 13 exploits. It happens in the middle of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. The end of the covenant is broken some how. The church failed would be my guess, just like the Jews failed at the first advent and the Cross. This time Satan literally may get 42 months. That it should happen is a tragedy, not a prophecy.

Of course there is the issue of time travel. But it will not matter. Only John went back. If it does not happen, not reading about it, will be a mute point at the moment it can not happen. Of course my physical logic compared to John's symbolic Revelation will be touted as not biblical and man made and what not. It is a warning nonetheless. The 4 seals of Revelation 6 are to prepare the church, not send it into panic mode. Remember the 10 virgins? This election may leave all 10 not prepared, but again I digress. Those living in the reality of martyredom are certainly prepared. Would to God it would be a healing of the nation event, and not a getting martyred event, but only the church has the keys to loose and bind God’s will on earth. If she only had faith and courage as well. The courage to crucify the flesh and turn from wickedness. Not the courage to start WW3. We are to win the lost to Christ. Not kill them and send them to sheol.