Not just mistaken, but malicious.

[Paulos23]

The above proves that the "Us versus Them" is real and no bridge will ever bring the two sides together.

Did you not read the part about the two boys coming together?

There are ways around the "Us versus Them" attitude, but it takes both sides to make it completely go away.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Whenever I get into an abortion debate, I always take pains to point out that everyone agrees that unfertilized sperm and ova are not human beings with human rights, and that babies that have just been born are. The contention is where on the journey from one to the other do those rights come into play, and there is no objectively "right" answer to that.

DNA.

When discussing atheism, I'm always clear that, whilst I don't believe in any gods, I do not maintain that it is certain that there are no gods, and thus my god-count of zero could be incorrect. In fact, I go further and say that sufficient credible evidence would cause me to change my mind.

And we Christians come from this very premise.

I try to be reasonable in everything I do (literally, basing my decisions on reason and logic) and to see explicitly what my underlying assumptions are. This means that in many situations I can get down to the fundamental points of difference and simply agree to differ. However, there are some situations where people are just plain wrong (mad, bad, stupid or ignorant), notably creationists.

Notably, we are all "created." So, "creationism" is in the correct from title onward. Even math is on that side. (Notably, the most mad, bad, stupid and ignorant, are not hailing from out of Christian universities, or from Christian perspective.)

 

[LittleNipper]

I'm going to quote myself from another thread, because I think this is actually an important question.



Why is it that people on both sides of an argument frequently assume that the people on the other side are not only wrong in their views, but that they have a malign intent? Why do people find it so hard to believe that their opponents in a debate might be sincerely mistaken? Instead, there are all sorts of claims made about agendas and unpleasant motives.

I tend to believe that most people are trying to do the best thing. We all just disagree about what the best thing is. Debate would perhaps be much calmer, much more civil, much more friendly and enjoyable for everyone, if we could all walk a mile in the moccasins of our esteemed opponents, and try to understand that almost every one of us is utterly sincere in the things that we say, and we do not have ulterior motives. We want to do what we believe is right or best or most beneficial. We want to uphold the principles or values that we regard as the most important. We all care about these things!

We are but fragile, flawed human beings. We are all of us prone to confirmation bias, to responding with emotion before reason, to making assumptions about our fellow debaters. Can we all try to recognise this and be nice to one another once in a while?

I agree with you 100%. The problem starts when two people disagree and one is depending on the Word of GOD as the foundation of his opinion. The other person usually gets entirely defensive and off we go...

 

[cantata]

I agree with you 100%. The problem starts when two people disagree and one is depending on the Word of GOD as the foundation of his opinion. The other person usually gets entirely defensive and off we go...

See, what I was hoping for was a not-side-taking thread, where people try to recognise that we are ALL prone to making assumptions and we are ALL capable of making mistakes, Christian or otherwise.

Instead it's just another round of fingerpointing. "THEY do this!" "Well THEY do that!" Sigh, sigh, sigh.

 

[SiderealExalt]

See, what I was hoping for was a not-side-taking thread, where people try to recognise that we are ALL prone to making assumptions and we are ALL capable of making mistakes, Christian or otherwise.

Instead it's just another round of fingerpointing. "THEY do this!" "Well THEY do that!" Sigh, sigh, sigh.

I find it tends to help if people stick to the topic at hand instead of delving into conversational history. But it's an issue I don't think that will ever go away. Us. vs. Them is ingrained in the human psyche.

 

[eMesreveR]

Us Vs. Them is the stuff of nations. Societies that didn't encourage it were wiped out early in human development. Such is the nature of life.

 

[Beanieboy]

The above proves that the "Us versus Them" is real and no bridge will ever bring the two sides together.

Jesus didn't say to build a bridge to welcome the wolves.
He said BEWARE of wolves who come in sheeps clothing.

If someone is lying, and trying to justify discrimination, are they serving Jesus, or someone else?

And yet, I pray for Robertson, Buchannon, etc. because I have to, and I have to believe in the change of heart, to believe that even people who claim to be of God can get lost and corrupted by power, and are still a child of God, as much as I am.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Jesus didn't say to build a bridge to welcome the wolves.
He said BEWARE of wolves who come in sheeps clothing.

It is a metaphor for people that say they are nice and are very evil.

Sound familiar?

If someone is lying, and trying to justify discrimination, are they serving Jesus, or someone else?

Jesus preached a form of discrimination that got Him hung on a Cross. Discrimination is part of the good choice/bad choice situation. Otherwise, everyone would be driving a GM car.

Promoting the bad choice as a civil right is a lie. It is also pure hatefulness.

And yet, I pray for Robertson, Buchannon, etc.

Buchannon? He's a politician/social news commentator isn't he? And Pat Robertson has enough people praying for him. Your prays would better serve those that hate Robertson. There's lots of them.

. . . because I have to, and I have to believe in the change of heart, to believe that even people who claim to be of God can get lost and corrupted by power, and are still a child of God, as much as I am.

Interesting, if we Christians try to do this we are charged with hate crimes and labeled phobic, fundamentalist and judgmental.