Not forcing religion.

[coastie]

Yeah, I can't even remember the last time I saw an atheist fly a plane into a skyscraper.

When was the last time a Christian did that?

 

[Havoc]

Christian/Muslim/Jew All the Abramic religions are pretty much the same from an outsiders point of view. Any ways gotta go watch the news. Wonder if there's been any more Protestants murdering Catholics, or vice versa in Northern Ireland on the news tonite?

Havoc

 

[coastie]

Christian/Muslim/Jew All the Abramic religions are pretty much the same from an outsiders point of view.

Eww...

You admit your ignorance?

Thank God!

I'm glad someone has the guts to actually show us all that they have been arguing with Christians even though they don't understand the fundamental differences between us and extremist Muslims.

Do you really think that those people killing each other in Ireland are really following God's law?

 

[Brimshack]

Curses! Foiled again.

Shane and I just went a few rounds. I think I will start a thread on teaching evolution in the schools sometime. I'm half tempted to put it in this forum, since I want to focus on the legal implications rather than the scientific validity of the theory. Hmm…

(How did this become a debate about terrorism?)

 

[coastie]

(How did this become a debate about terrorism?)

It's a favorite attack on the ultimate righteousness of Christianity (and religion in general).

The same ol' "Well Hitler was a Christian" argument. So full of holes that I could grate cheese with it.

Put it wherever you like. Regardless, it will turn into an argument about the validity of the theory.

 

[Brimshack]

Not if i corss my fingers and ask real nice.

 

[coastie]

Brim-

I didn't know you were an optimist. I had you colored a cynic.

It's worth a try, I guess.

 

[Susan]

"This is a rather bold acusation. Would you mind explaining how atheism causes terrorism"

Remember Soviet Russia? Or the current situation in China?

Government-sponsored terrorism against innocent people was an everyday occurance in communist Europe.
In China, it still is happenning, as it is in North Korea.

 

[RufusAtticus]

Originally posted by Susan
"This is a rather bold acusation. Would you mind explaining how atheism causes terrorism"

Remember Soviet Russia? Or the current situation in China?

Government-sponsored terrorism against innocent people was an everyday occurance in communist Europe.
In China, it still is happenning, as it is in North Korea.

What does that have to do with atheism? In communist countries, it's authoritarian politics that's responsible. Massacres have occurred in the thoroughly Christian countries of Latin America, yet you never see any atheist make the mistake of saying that Christianity was responsible.

 

[Caffeine Socialism]

When I mentioned my nonexistent memory of atheists flying planes into skyscrapers, I meant atheists as opposed to theists.

 

[crazyfingers]

Originally posted by Susan
"This is a rather bold acusation. Would you mind explaining how atheism causes terrorism"

Remember Soviet Russia? Or the current situation in China?

Government-sponsored terrorism against innocent people was an everyday occurance in communist Europe.
In China, it still is happenning, as it is in North Korea.

You need to show how atheism causes terrorism.  The fact that the former Soviet Union and Communist China were/are officially atheist says nothing.  Correlation is not causation.

 

[Job_38]

How does it cause it? Because with no God and nothing to judge you yet other men, then the rules are nothing and there is no one to answer to.

 

[RufusAtticus]

Originally posted by Job_38
How does it cause it? Because with no God and nothing to judge you yet other men, then the rules are nothing and there is no one to answer to.

And yet even with God, Christians still manage their share of atrocities. Sorry, but there is no historical evidence that Christian regimes are any less bloody. In fact, one could argue that being Christian makes you more likely to do bad things, since the Father will forgive you, if you only ask, and still let you into the Promised Land. Atheists see that they only have one life to live and most of them have better things to do than oppress and kill fellow humans.

 

[Lacmeh]

Christianity causes terrorism. Or what are you calling all those things going on around abortion clinics, demanding the murdering of abortion doctors...
Every religion or nonreligion can be distorted enough to be used as an excuse for violence.

 

[crazyfingers]

Originally posted by Job_38
How does it cause it? Because with no God and nothing to judge you yet other men, then the rules are nothing and there is no one to answer to.

 

Here we go again.

However facts do not appear to back up your assertion. If you were right, our prisons would be overflowing with nonbelievers and that just isn't so. There would be high crime rates for nonbelievers and there just isn't. Look at the UK where something like half the population is nonbeliever, humanist or at least utterly apathetic towards religion. Low crime rate.

Being a nonbeliever does not mean being amoral.

Most nonbelievers I know operate under a moral system tied to the Golden rule and have a live and let live attitude. Live and let live attitudes and terrorism don't mix too well.

Also, the vast majority of terrorism has its' routes in political and economic struggles where those on the bottom feel, I believe mistakenly, that terrorism is their only option. (A possible exception is the militant antiabortion terrorists in the US.) This kind of situation can also lead to religious fanaticism. Religious fanaticism can lead people to commit acts of terror because of a belief that god has told them to do it. Look at the militant antiabortion crowds who advocate killing doctors and bombing of clinics. Look at 9/11.

While I would not say that religion causes terrorism, political and economic forces do that, I would say that I suspect that fanatical religion makes it easier for one to commit acts of terrorism and certainly the current state of the world would seem to back up that suspicion.

On the other hand, I see no evidence that the lack of a god belief makes anyone more prone to terrorism. Lack of a god belief is usually tied to the belief that morality is subjective but it also tends in practice to tie to the golden rule as a moral code. I would hardly think of forcing my morality onto someone else so long as that someone else was not harming me or others.

OTOH, those who believe in a god given objective morality might easily decide that god wants the person to force a morality onto others. We see a lot of this around the world.

 

[Job_38]

Of course there is not going to be a difference of the two groups. Why? Because we are humans. Faulty, sinful, can not do anything right, and think that we know what's going on.

 

[Brimshack]

Job 38:

"How does it cause it? Because with no God and nothing to judge you yet other men, then the rules are nothing and there is no one to answer to. "

"Of course there is not going to be a difference of the two groups. Why? Because we are humans. Faulty, sinful, can not do anything right, and think that we know what's going on."

Unless I'm misreading your posts now Job, I would say that you have some thinking to do. These appear to be in direct contradiction to one another. Or am I misreading you?

 

[Job_38]

Simpletons way of reading. I showed how atheism can cause terrorism. I showed how humans cause terrorism

 

[Job_38]

Originally posted by crazyfingers


 

Here we go again.

However facts do not appear to back up your assertion. If you were right, our prisons would be overflowing with nonbelievers and that just isn't so. There would be high crime rates for nonbelievers and there just isn't. Look at the UK where something like half the population is nonbeliever, humanist or at least utterly apathetic towards religion. Low crime rate.

Being a nonbeliever does not mean being amoral.

Most nonbelievers I know operate under a moral system tied to the Golden rule and have a live and let live attitude. Live and let live attitudes and terrorism don't mix too well.

Also, the vast majority of terrorism has its' routes in political and economic struggles where those on the bottom feel, I believe mistakenly, that terrorism is their only option. (A possible exception is the militant antiabortion terrorists in the US.) This kind of situation can also lead to religious fanaticism. Religious fanaticism can lead people to commit acts of terror because of a belief that god has told them to do it. Look at the militant antiabortion crowds who advocate killing doctors and bombing of clinics. Look at 9/11.

While I would not say that religion causes terrorism, political and economic forces do that, I would say that I suspect that fanatical religion makes it easier for one to commit acts of terrorism and certainly the current state of the world would seem to back up that suspicion.

On the other hand, I see no evidence that the lack of a god belief makes anyone more prone to terrorism. Lack of a god belief is usually tied to the belief that morality is subjective but it also tends in practice to tie to the golden rule as a moral code. I would hardly think of forcing my morality onto someone else so long as that someone else was not harming me or others.

OTOH, those who believe in a god given objective morality might easily decide that god wants the person to force a morality onto others. We see a lot of this around the world.

 

 What we see is that perverted versions of religions popping up. Such as the Waco incident, where the leader was telling then we was Christ. Or the 9/11 attacks.

 

 

[Job_38]

Originally posted by crazyfingers


 

Here we go again.

However facts do not appear to back up your assertion. If you were right, our prisons would be overflowing with nonbelievers and that just isn't so. There would be high crime rates for nonbelievers and there just isn't. Look at the UK where something like half the population is nonbeliever, humanist or at least utterly apathetic towards religion. Low crime rate.

Being a nonbeliever does not mean being amoral.

Most nonbelievers I know operate under a moral system tied to the Golden rule and have a live and let live attitude. Live and let live attitudes and terrorism don't mix too well.

Also, the vast majority of terrorism has its' routes in political and economic struggles where those on the bottom feel, I believe mistakenly, that terrorism is their only option. (A possible exception is the militant antiabortion terrorists in the US.) This kind of situation can also lead to religious fanaticism. Religious fanaticism can lead people to commit acts of terror because of a belief that god has told them to do it. Look at the militant antiabortion crowds who advocate killing doctors and bombing of clinics. Look at 9/11.

While I would not say that religion causes terrorism, political and economic forces do that, I would say that I suspect that fanatical religion makes it easier for one to commit acts of terrorism and certainly the current state of the world would seem to back up that suspicion.

On the other hand, I see no evidence that the lack of a god belief makes anyone more prone to terrorism. Lack of a god belief is usually tied to the belief that morality is subjective but it also tends in practice to tie to the golden rule as a moral code. I would hardly think of forcing my morality onto someone else so long as that someone else was not harming me or others.

OTOH, those who believe in a god given objective morality might easily decide that god wants the person to force a morality onto others. We see a lot of this around the world.

 

 What we see is that perverted versions of religions popping up. Such as the Waco incident, where the leader was telling then we was Christ. Or the 9/11 attacks.