Not existing...

[none the wiser]

So I'm sure this is one of the topics that yall get a lot of questions about. But I wanna know if god is sending me to hell, wouldn't it have been better to not create me at all? I mean yes I know I have free will, but if he knew, as he is omnipotent, that I'd choose the "wrong" way, wouldn't it be more merciful to just not create someone like me in the first place, instead of damning me to torture for eternity?

 

[Momzilla]

Well, I think you are off in thinking that God's omniscience and omnipotence (all-knowledge and all-power) somehow negates or interferes with free will. You say that God "knows the choice you will make." That may be so, but you make that choice at every moment of your life--how do you know what choice *you* will make in the future?

But to answer more directly the question you asked, I don't think omniscience implies foreknowledge of all your choices. You are free, and you remain so. What will you choose?

 

[Calminian]

So I'm sure this is one of the topics that yall get a lot of questions about. But I wanna know if god is sending me to hell, wouldn't it have been better to not create me at all? I mean yes I know I have free will, but if he knew, as he is omnipotent, that I'd choose the "wrong" way, wouldn't it be more merciful to just not create someone like me in the first place, instead of damning me to torture for eternity?

You're probably referring to omniscience (all knowing). It appears from scripture, that while God is merciful, He is also just and places a high value on human freedom, even though it may lead to condemnation.

Matt. 26:24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”

God will let you make bad decisions, even eternally bad ones. I can kind of see the logic behind it. If we would have sinned, then to take away our choice would be unjust, in a sense, which would violate God's very nature. Remember, God cannot violate His own nature. In fact there may even be would have sins that He doesn't let men commit for the sake of mercy on others, but still condemns those men for what they would have done had they been given the choice. There's a theological concept called middle knowledge that develops this idea.

 

[Key]

So I'm sure this is one of the topics that yall get a lot of questions about. But I wanna know if god is sending me to hell, wouldn't it have been better to not create me at all? I mean yes I know I have free will, but if he knew, as he is omnipotent, that I'd choose the "wrong" way, wouldn't it be more merciful to just not create someone like me in the first place, instead of damning me to torture for eternity?

Because Mercy, is giving birth to child knowing one day they will die, to allow them the joys of living a life.

God Bless

Key

 

[ERice2nd]

So I'm sure this is one of the topics that yall get a lot of questions about. But I wanna know if god is sending me to hell, wouldn't it have been better to not create me at all? I mean yes I know I have free will, but if he knew, as he is omnipotent, that I'd choose the "wrong" way, wouldn't it be more merciful to just not create someone like me in the first place, instead of damning me to torture for eternity?

Momzilla answered it best, lets see if I can add to it. You only have to choose to come to him and he will rejoice with you abundantly. There will be such a overwhelming amount of joy that you would be hardly able to hold back the tears. God does love you and wants you to be with him, you only need to make that choice and God put you here so you can make that choice. He is asking you to make that choice.

 

[none the wiser]

Well, I think you are off in thinking that God's omniscience and omnipotence (all-knowledge and all-power) somehow negates or interferes with free will. You say that God "knows the choice you will make." That may be so, but you make that choice at every moment of your life--how do you know what choice *you* will make in the future?

But to answer more directly the question you asked, I don't think omniscience implies foreknowledge of all your choices. You are free, and you remain so. What will you choose?

Yeah, I get that he doesn't interfere with free will. I was Baptist up until I was 16 and Christian until a few weeks ago...Baptists are big on free will. But would you let a child make a decision that would ultimately lead to...I dunno, paralyzation. Would you let a child, or even someone you love, do something dangerous that would UNAVOIDABLY lead to their demise and incredible suffering?

You're probably referring to omniscience (all knowing). It appears from scripture, that while God is merciful, He is also just and places a high value on human freedom, even though it may lead to condemnation.

Matt. 26:24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”

God will let you make bad decisions, even eternally bad ones. I can kind of see the logic behind it. If we would have sinned, then to take away our choice would be unjust, in a sense, which would violate God's very nature. Remember, God cannot violate His own nature. In fact there may even be would have sins that He doesn't let men commit for the sake of mercy on others, but still condemns those men for what they would have done had they been given the choice. There's a theological concept called middle knowledge that develops this idea.

I'm not sure I understand this correctly...are you saying that because I could murder someone, god needs to go ahead and punish me for the murder I might commit? Or do I have this messed up...

Because Mercy, is giving birth to child knowing one day they will die, to allow them the joys of living a life.

God Bless

Key

Death itself doesn't involve eternal torture

Momzilla answered it best, lets see if I can add to it. You only have to choose to come to him and he will rejoice with you abundantly. There will be such a overwhelming amount of joy that you would be hardly able to hold back the tears. God does love you and wants you to be with him, you only need to make that choice and God put you here so you can make that choice. He is asking you to make that choice.

I felt that overwhelming joy a couple times, but looking back it was the joy of feeling like I belonged to a group of people. I don't recall ever feeling any joy in Christianity itself. Not ever.

I don't understand, still...how could God allow these people to exist if they're going to burn forever? How could he stand by and watch them ruin their eternity?

 

[ERice2nd]

I felt that overwhelming joy a couple times, but looking back it was the joy of feeling like I belonged to a group of people. I don't recall ever feeling any joy in Christianity itself. Not ever.

I don't understand, still...how could God allow these people to exist if they're going to burn forever? How could he stand by and watch them ruin their eternity?

Yes, thats exactly what it feels like, you belong to the family of God. He stands by and cries because of the free will he gave us when we were created

 

[BelindaP]

The truth is that nobody but God knows for sure why He set up the world this way. My personal belief is that when Lucifer rebelled against God, he issued a challenge of some sort that has not been recorded for us. I believe this because God did not choose to destroy him or the angels that followed him.

Thus, human history is a story of how a sentient species can be drawn to God and serve Him of his own free will. Satan, for his part, has attempted to disrupt God's plan at every turn, but has instead only moved along God's plan.

God placed Adam and Eve in the garden as innocents. The Devil tempted them and they sinned. This was God's demonstration that man being innocent does not keep him in union with God.

Cain killed Abel--the demonstration that conscience does not keep man in union with God.

The tower of Babel was built--the demonstration that government does not keep man in union with God.

The Jews abandoned God many times--the demonstration that the Law does not keep man in Union with God.

Jesus was killed at Calvary--God's demonstration that a man could live a perfect life and his accomplishment of the one act that brings man into communion with God.

Now everyone has the chance to accept God or reject Him. Yes, those that reject him are destined to eternity without him. Depending on which view of hell is correct, you may burn for eternity or only until your sins have been paid for.

When the end comes, Satan's challenge will have been thoroughly vanquished. He and all those who followed him will be cast into the lake of fire. God's purposes will have been fulfilled.

As I said at the beginning, these are my suppositions based on my knowledge of the scriptures. They are almost certainly not 100% accurate, but they testify to the fact that God has a purpose that we can't understand right now. The only thing Christians can understand is that they want to be on the winning side of the great controversy.

Let me finish off with a challenge. If you are right and there is no God, and I follow Christ, you and I have lost nothing.

If I am right and there is a God, and you don't follow Christ, you have lost everything and I have gained everything. Food for thought.

 

[Calminian]

Yes, thats exactly what it feels like, you belong to the family of God. He stands by and cries because of the free will he gave us when we were created

What a thought!

 

[Calminian]

YI'm not sure I understand this correctly...are you saying that because I could murder someone, god needs to go ahead and punish me for the murder I might commit? Or do I have this messed up...

First, I'm just kind of thinking out loud, so take this with a grain of salt. Omniscience is really quite mind boggling when you think about it. God not only knows what we will do in the future, but He knows counterfactuals of the future—what we would have done in a different situation. Theologians refer to this particular kind of knowledge as middle knowledge. They draw from passages such as this one.

Matt. 11:21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

I added emphasis to "if," because Tyer was not shown such signs and did not repent. But God knew for certain what they would have done in a different circumstance. I find that fascinating.

Now in your above reply, you asked if you must be condemned if you could have murdered someone? The answer is no. But IF God knows that you certainly would have murdered someone in a particular situation, but just does not present the circumstances for you to carry it out, can He just ignore such knowledge?? It seems to me He will take things like this into account on the judgement day.

For instance, perhaps Hitler, had he been born in a different time and place, would not have committed the atrocities he did. But God would still know what he certainly would have done in a different circumstance. It just seems unjust for Him to ignore such knowledge. I'd be curious what your thoughts on this are.

So back to your original post, I don't know that a perfectly just God can simply ignore such knowledge, and make things right by never giving an evil person an opportunity. He would still know what they certainly would have done.

Anyway, just a theory in process. The bottom line is, God knows what He's doing. I completely trust Him.

Rom. 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! 34 “For who has known the mind of the LORD? Or who has become His counselor?” 35 “Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?” 36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

 

[honorthesabbath]

So I'm sure this is one of the topics that yall get a lot of questions about. But I wanna know if god is sending me to hell, wouldn't it have been better to not create me at all? I mean yes I know I have free will, but if he knew, as he is omnipotent, that I'd choose the "wrong" way, wouldn't it be more merciful to just not create someone like me in the first place, instead of damning me to torture for eternity?

Wiser-The wages of sin is DEATH! Man is not an immortal being. So if you do not accept the eternal life that Jesus offers, free of charge, then He regretfully allows you to die-eternally. God is merciful.

 

[Key]

Death itself doesn't involve eternal torture

True, but the idea is, where do we draw the line at being "Unmade", one might say "Why Give Birth, knowing the end is death" why should we have children, knowing they will hurt themselves, they will make mistakes, have problems, and after all their years of this life, they will finally just die.

Where do we ask God to draw the line?

Should God unmake us, if we will commint a single sin? (After all it is sin that seperates us from God)

Should God unmake us if we will make a single mistake?

Should God only unmake us if by the end our lives we fail to Accept his Gift of Salavtion?

But allow us to be made if before we accept salvation we molest children and kill people?

Where should God draw this line, and say "At this Point", and why at that Point and not before it, if at that point, bad things will still happen to us?

Should God unmake us if we were to suffer the tinist bit, at what point, would our suffering or the suffering we inflict on others merit being unmade?

The idea is, we are given this chance, we are given this life, we know we will suffer, and there will be problems, and finally we will die, but we have this chance, to do what we want.

Isn't that Mercy, in and of itself?

Isn't that Love?

Just some things to think about, when this question arises.

God Bless

Key

 

[matthew241006]

I'm no expert but I don't think God does send anyone to Hell. Its up to the individual isn't it? If you disobey, then there are consequences.
Also, I don't think he knew the path you would choose. He gave you free will as you say. You can use it how you wish. He wants you to use it for the good, not the bad.
You do have a choice. You dont have to go down the wide path. You can stop, turn around and go back anytime. Its really up to you I think.

 

[BelindaP]

So well put...and by a babe to the faith! The Bible is correct when it says "out of the mouth of babes comes forth perfect wisdom."

 

[Nifty777]

Perhaps you could look at the following scriptures:
2 Peter 2:8
They stumble because they disobey the message-which is also what they were destined for.

Why would God make people that he knew would wind up in hell?
Well see that really depends on your view, and I hope I am not offending anyone. We all deserve hell, but God has shown mercy on some through the gift of his son Jesus Christ. Why not save everyone?
Honestly, that question is asked from our proud and sinful minds? As I said before, everyone deserves hell. The question we should ask ourselves is why save anyone at all? Thank God that he isn't fair, and his sovereign choice is far better than any that we could make as mortals. His ways are above our ways and his thoughts above our thoughts.

Romans 9:14-16
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

If you want to follow God, then that desire has been given to you by God. The scripture says that none can know Jesus except that the Father first draw them. So, wanting to be closer to God is a good sign, it means the Holy Spirit is already working in your life.

Sincerely,
Nifty777