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Lusting is basically coveting. Coveting is where you want something that you have no right to. So essentially it doesn't matter what the lust is related to in terms of desire.
Married or not appreciation of beauty is not inherently lustful. In that consistently misquoted verse Jesus taught it was lusting with the intent to commit adultery that was wrong. That is much more than just finding someone attractive.
John
NZ
Satan isn't in heaven, though.Mkgal's quote is a vision where this woman, Rhoda is said to be his accuser in heaven. That puts her in Satan's position of accuser and not the position of a truth teller.
Great points. Whose agenda does that sound like?Envy & jealousy are two different biblical concepts.
One is wanting something because it is good. The other is wanting something in order to deprive someone else.
But in this case the author is wanting his wife to be someone she is not.
He wishes her to be prettier & better in assisting him.
(Kinda common thinking imho)
All too common thinking. We want things but are unwilling to pay the real price they cost. We often wish for a closer relationship with God but do nothing about it. We wish for better relationships but do nothing to others to encourage them.
Here this guy wants either this woman or one just like her. Will he do what is necessary to gain?......NOPE
The thief's purpose is to steal and kill and destroy. My purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life.~John 10:10
Many years ago, I read part of the Shepherd of Hermas. I don't want to argue for how legitimate the writing is, but it is interesting. In it, Hermas is reproved of sinning for his thoughts about a woman.
:1 The master, who reared me, had sold me to one Rhoda in Rome. After many years, I met her again, and began to love her as a sister.
1:2 After a certain time I saw her bathing in the river Tiber; and I gave her my hand, and led her out of the river. So, seeing her beauty, I reasoned in my heart, saying, "Happy were I, if I had such an one to wife both in beauty and in character." I merely reflected on this and nothing more.
If a man looks on a woman to desire her-- to be his wife without thinking sexual thoughts-- is this also committing adultery in his heart? A man is not to covet his neighbor's wife.
I don't see that Hermas did anything wrong. I don't seem him desiring to take Rhoda away from her husband. It seems all his thought was is here is a beautiful woman inside and out and how this is the type of woman who makes for a good wife. Mkgal's quote is a vision where this woman, Rhoda is said to be his accuser in heaven. That puts her in Satan's position of accuser and not the position of a truth teller. Hermas's on comment is simple to observe that this woman is a good example of what makes a good wife. Its Rhoda's accusations that there is something he is doing wrong. I don't see anything wrong in Hermas' comments.
However, it seems that the narrator (Hermas) is married:
As Hermas was on the road to Cumae, he had a vision of Rhoda. She told him that she was his accuser in heaven, on account of an unchaste thought the (married) narrator had once had concerning her, though only in passing. He was to pray for forgiveness for himself and all his house
It is standard Christian theology that ascribes beauty in creation to God as the only Being capable of such creativity and resourcefulness. To acknowledge beauty as a gift, wherever we are blessed by its presence, it to engage in worship, wonder, and thanksgiving, and when we produce something of beauty we experience the satisfaction of following in God's footsteps. The Psalmist often wrote of the wonder of God's creation. Solomon was characterised by excellence in knowledge, creativity and sublime artistry as well as his wisdom. In fact all his best aesthetic achievements were an expression of wisdom, and therefore reflective of God's wisdom and creativity. I find it a bit odd that Christians readily express their appreciation of beauty for many things - nature, landscapes, great commercial designs or fashion, yet tend towards guilt or uncertainty over a beautiful woman.
The 'desires of the eyes' is not the denial of beauty but our motives and unthankfulness as we merely use something for our own ends.
John
NZ
Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul.
I think you are combining to different principals here.
Covet to me is similar to envy. Yearn to possess or have (something).
You mentioned he was reproved for the envy.
Lust to me is very different. Lust is a yearning to USE that something you wish to process or have. You use that person in your mind - and they are no longer a person. They are an object to be used for your own satisfaction. You toy with that object in your mind, because to me at that point they are NOT a person anymore.
So all that John said about the 'desires of the eyes' was not applicable to (so-called) merely "appreciating beauty"? It seems to me that Eve set the pattern:
Our subject in the OP "merely reflected" on his thoughts. I can imagine Eve did the same before she acted with some consequences she didn't count on.
We could look it up in Lightfoot's translation of The Shepherd of Hermas online. But as I recall, he was reproved for lust
I thought that the sin happened when she took the bite, not before. When are tempted, it's not sin, is it? I could be wrong.
I thought that the sin happened when she took the bite, not before. When are tempted, it's not sin, is it? I could be wrong.
I think that this is very similar to the way I would think about it. Lusting after anything - for any reason - doesn't sound godly.If something is "waging war against our soul"......doesn't that steal away the peace that God has for us?
To use Adam and Eve as a hypothetical example......if they *hadn't* actually taken a bite of the fruit that day (but, *wanted to*....and continually battled that---white knuckling it)......wouldn't that change their attitude from perfect peace with God? Instead of seeing all that God *had* given them......I imagine they'd be focused on what they can't have (the fruit from that tree). Just because they stopped before that line was crossed (hypothetically).....doesn't mean (IMO) they haven't sinned. Sin is missing God's mark of perfection. He doesn't want for anything to be between Him and us. He doesn't want for us to be disabled by feelings of deprivation......feelings of shame......feelings of defeat......and a lack of peace.
You did say in a non sexual manner. To me when you referred to, 'committing adultery in his heart'? To me that refers to 'lust' of a sexual manner. Someone is using another person in their mind in a sexual manner. He no longer see the her as a person, but someone to use in his fantasies of the mind.
Coveting to me - I wish my wife was so pretty and intelligent. Non- sexual.
From what I've read, the word translated 'lust' in the New Testament does not always refer to sexual lust.
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