• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Nonresistance as Taught in the New Testament is Moral and Good.

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Bible Highlighter, Nov 19, 2016.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,054
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Dear Hank:

    First, the Old Testament has many truths and teachings that line up with the truths within the New Testament so as to help us. If lethal force in self defense was a truth that carried over into the New Testament, then we would see many clear examples of this. However, on the contrary, we see the exact opposite of this being taught, though. For Jesus said, "But I tell you not to resist the evil person. Instead, whoever shall strike you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39). Jesus says, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword" (Matthew 26:52). Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." (John 18:36). Jesus says, "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." (Matthew 5:44). Paul says, "We do not use those things to fight with that the world uses. We use the things God gives to fight with and they have power. Those things God gives to fight with destroy the strong-places of the devil." (2 Corinthians 10:4 NLV).

    Second, the Old Testament Law is no longer binding for a believer. It's why Paul says we are not under the Law (i.e. the Old Testament Law) (Romans 6:14). Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Seeing we are New Covenant believers and we are not Old Covenant believers, it is obvious which Law we should follow. We should follow the Laws or Commands in the New Covenant and not the Old one. If you believe you have to keep the old Law this would not be possible for you to do. The Law on animal sacrifices is no longer in effect. The Temple veil has been torn from top to bottom with Jesus's death (Matthew 27:51). James tells us that if we break just one law, we break the whole of the Law (James 2:10). Seeing, you cannot keep the Law on animal sacrifices, this means you cannot keep the rest of the Old Law (even if you wanted to). In other words, you have to quote from the New Testament in order to prove your case for using lethal force in self defense as being Biblical (And not the Old Testament).

    Anyways, please be well.
    And I understand if you do not want to continue to discuss this.
    In any event, may God bless you.
    And may His peace be a part of your day.

    Sincerely,

    ~ Jason.


    ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
  2. Balugon

    Balugon o( ' . ' )o

    +519
    Pentecostal
    Single
    What outside of the Bible attracts you to pacifism?

    Actually, if I was running around with an assault rifle about to kill a 100 or more people, I would want someone to shoot me, if that was the only practical way to stop me. They would be preventing a lot of pain and anguish from entering the world.
     
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,054
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    What good things exist that are not taught in the Bible? All truths or things that are good in this life are backed by God's Word. If you are asking me what good points there are to the biblical New Testament teaching on Nonresistance: Well, here are a few.

    #1. Faith (Trust) in God's Word.
    #2. Faith (Trust) in God.
    #3. Using love to conquer hate.
    #4. Being a builder of peace.
    #5. Knowing love and peace.
    #6. Imitating the life of Christ.
    #7. Reaping of Heavenly Rewards and glorifying Jesus Christ.

    No. That is not realistic. Most murderers do not want to die or be stopped. If a person wants to just be shot, and killed, they usually can come up with more creative ways to do so besides just killing others (although I am not denying it has happened).

    People die and get hurt every day. The evil in this world cannot be stopped by any one man. God will be the One to put an end to the evil in this world. Do you believe God is the giver and taker of life? Do you believe God is Sovereign? Do you believe bad things can happen to a believer or a person as a part of God's ultimate plan for good?

    If protecting lives was really our goal vs. (versus) trying to preach the gospel and do good to those who are poor, then why don't we strive to be billionaires and buid an iron man suit to fight crime instead? Instead of following what God commands of us, should we strive to help create a weaponized satellite with the capability to immobilze criminals from orbit instead? Think about all the lives that could be saved. But does God call us to do things like that? Would that be what God wants us to do? Sure, good can result from these things, but is it the goodness and righteousness that God requires from you? Would it be something that is in line with His will for your life?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  4. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

    +1,333
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Separated
    If you plan to benefit from their failure to receive the word of God then it is on you I'm afraid.
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,054
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    First, this post was in reply to an atheist (before the thread was moved to the Christian's only section). He thought I would chide police officers or believing police officers in regards to the New Testament teaching on Nonresistance. This was something this person was inventing in their own mind (of which I had no intention of doing so).

    Second, if a person hears the Word of God on any teaching (within it's pages), it is not something I can force feed them by chiding or goading them. It is not in how well I speak or how clever or unique I am in my presentation (like using hand puppets). It comes down to me delivering the Word to them (planting the seeds) whereby it is then between God and them. The phrase that I used "I just plant seeds and God gives the increase" is actually taken from Scripture.

    "I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase."
    (1 Corinthians 3:6).​

    Three, where did I ever say that I planned to benefit from another person's failure? This is something that you are inventing that I did not say.

    Four, your point does not have anything to do with the topic of the thread. Please stick to the topic at hand. Thank you.


    ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,054
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Anyways, getting back on topic:

    God can protect me from evil if He so chooses to do so. God has more than enough power to protect me better than any army or police force or gun. If it is God's will to have me be persecuted for my faith instead, then that is God's call, too. Whatever God chooses to do with my life is up to Him. But that does not mean I am going to act contrary to His Word and use lethal force so as to defend myself. My trust is in the LORD no matter what happens in this life.


    ....
     
  7. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

    +1,333
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Separated
    You stated in post #55:
    In this way you would benefit from the consequences of the violence in your defence without having to engage in the actual act yourself.

    If the non-pacifism that a person engages in in the course of their employment is a sin for you, then knowingly and deliberately benefiting from the consequences of that sin is to be an accessory to that sin.
    Of course pacifism as taught by Christ is moral and good, and it is clear that the Apostles also did not defend themselves against violence.

    However if we are to maintain a strict adherence to the principle we should maintain a consistent and non-hypocritical stance. This means, interalia, that we would not deliberately benefit from the non-paficist actions of another by calling upon them to act in this way on our behalf.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  8. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +8,610
    Anabaptist
    Also, in believers/ followers of Jesus all through the centuries to this one we live in now.

    Their testimony cries out against all those who shed blood, and YHWH says clearly "Vengeance is MINE; I WILL REPAY" --- and HE IS STILL WILLING to show MERCY !!!!!!

    PERFECT JUSTICE IS HIS. When the martyrs occur, and the tortures, and the imprisonments,
    HE KNOWS,
    and HE HAS A PLAN --- HE HAS ALWAYS KNOWN, and HE CARES more than anyone on earth can comprehend.

    Not even one sparrow can die, except the FATHER permits it.

    So also, so much more, "ye are of more value than a million sparrow"
    HE KNOWS our lives, our grief, our pain,
    and all that anyone can do to us (they can do nothing unless HE PERMITS IT) ...

    Perhaps more important for some reading this:

    HE not only knows,
    and cares, and has a plan,
    but HIS PLAN is the best possible plan.
    There is no other way to accomplish everything as if better than HE DOES.


    Amein , Amein, and HalleluYAH !

    p.s. Remember what to do if you see your neighbors ox in a ditch away from their house/farm ? Go get it or let him know,
    so he can get it back.
    And since YHWH'S WORD cares for animals that are not even your own,
    Likewise there may very well be something to do if you see a bully in action, or an adult or even a soldier under orders being brutal against someone defenseless....
    you might end up stepping in and taking the beating yourself;
    perhaps just by speaking up YHWH will use you to stop the offense ?

    In every case, always, trust YHWH, and do what is right. (you will know in your conscience without needing anyone to tell you).

    And , if you make a mistake (a few of us do) , YHWH'S WORD gives directions to follow then also. Turn to HIM to learn HIS WAY.
    Spend a lot of time with HIM every day, frequently.

    HE KNOWS.
     
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,054
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    It is not a hypocritical stance. They are God's ministers of justice. They have their role or part to play. Have you stopped driving cars because they cause damage to our planet? Do you quit your job because you do not agree with the rich life style of your CEO? Can you not call upon an angel to protect you? What if God decided to have that angel use lethal force against your attacker to protect you? Would you be against God in this instance? Would you stop praying to God for an angel to protect you next time? Why would it be different with calling the police? They are not a hit squad and they do try to bring people in without killing them. They are God's ministers of justice (According to Romans 13). Just as angels are God's ministers.



    ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  10. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

    +1,333
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Separated
    ..and we therefore have our role to play and not say silly things about the actions they must necessarily take in our defence.
    None of the above. Although I find the ins and outs of the discussion interesting, what I do is lean on the grace that is mine in Christ Jesus and listen to His Spirit and so I don't really have to concern myself with whether this or that is right or wrong.
    Many seem to miss what the tree in the garden was called, the one we were not supposed to eat. And even more forget the tree that we were supposed to be eating from.
    God has sovereignty over all life, mine included. I suspect that He already has done this sort of thing to my benefit at least once. Am I against God for doing it? No. Does it disturb me that my life might have been a factor in the downfall of another? Yes. Would I live my life in the same way again? I hope not.
     
  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,054
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Where did I speak bad against the police or the military? I am talking to Christians who are seeking to follow Christ and His ways.

    So you don't believe certain sins can separate a believer from GOD whereby they need to repent of such sins so as to keep their heart right with the LORD? What is your opinion of morality? Do we not know the good guys from the bad guys by what they do?

    Please take note that there are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18). Sins that do not lead unto death would be not being baptized (1 Peter 3:21). Hidden or secret faults (Psalms 19:12). Sins unto death would be the sins listed in Revelation 21:8 (Such as murder, lying, idolatry, etc.). Sins unto death can be forgiven if one repents of them.

    And many miss or ignore the lesson in the Garden involving God's Command to Adam and Eve. The devil said to Eve that she would not die if she ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In other words, the same lie that was being pushed back in the Garden is the same lie that is being pushed today. You will not die spiritually if you sin.

    As for the Tree of Life: It was to provide immortality on a physical level. If they ate of the wrong tree and then ate of the Tree of Life, they would have been doomed for all eternity.

    Even when believers are not always in God's will, the Lord our God is still sovereign. So yes. I agree. It is the one thing that Christians who are against the biblical teaching of Nonresistance have a hard time accepting.

    Well, if it was me: It would not disturb me that my life was spared in exchange over another life because I trust GOD has a plan for all human beings that is just, fair, and good (even if I cannot see that plan).


    ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  12. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

    +1,333
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Separated
    In another post you were asked about followers of Christ who happen to Policemen who understand that it is part of their job to commit acts of non-paficist violence and you seemed to shrug it off as if it didn't matter not caring about whether they have received "the word of God", while at the same time depending upon them to preserve your own and your families safety.
    Clearly as followers of Christ they have received a different word from that which you have received.

    Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the Law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
    Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s Law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

    You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet the Spirit gives you life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the deadc will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who dwells within you.

    Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no Law.

    But remember this it is not who is inside the fence and who is outside the fence, rather it how one is orientated towards Christ Jesus, the Spirit in relationship with Him.

    Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s Law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

    But the way out is not by following a set of rules. This is the knowledge of good and evil, rather it is by following and eating of the Vine of life, walking in accordance with His spirit that we find the way. Loving, Hoping, Trusting, Listening and Obeying Him, not some set of rules.

    Yes, and now we are given access to this same vine in Christ Jesus, on a physical level.

    Very much so.

    I am disturbed because of this saying of Christ: Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
  13. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,054
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Well, I am not saying that Christians cannot be misguided on a wide range of issues or topics in the Bible. But Jesus calls us to follow in His footsteps and not our own. You will not find Jesus even once defending Himself using violence. Yet, the Scriptures say that we are to imitate Christ and use Him as our example. This right here should let you know that using lethal force to defend one self is not a New Testament practice.

    I believe in time, a believer's career will become less and less important to them and they will find a way to serve the LORD in His ministry 100%.

    In any event, by what you said so far, I am leaning towards the thinking that you may not believe in New Testament Nonresistance. What verses in the New Testament makes you think this way?

    Now, a good majority of Romans 8 does in fact deal with Soteriology.

    Anyways, in Romans 8:1, you forgot to quote the other part of the verse that is essential to the truth here.

    "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:1).

    In other words, if you walk after the flesh and not after the Spirit, there is condemnation. How so? Let's see what else the Bible says in regards to the "condemnation."

    19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
    21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God." (John 3:19-21).

    To put it to you another way.... as part of the condemnation (as it says above here): Those who do evil hate the light and have not come to the light (i.e. Jesus) unless their deeds are reproved (Which is obviously done if they repent of their sins). Repenting of your sins involves both confessing and forsaking sin. For Jesus defines repentance for us in Matthew 12:41 by pointing us to Jonah 3:6-10. For the Ninevites shall rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah 3:6-10: You would see that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to cry out to God and to forsake their evil ways. When God had seen that they turned from their wickedness, the LORD had then turned away from bringing Wrath or Judgment upon them.

    "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2).

    Notice how there are TWO laws here in Romans 8:2 and not just one.

    For there is the:

    #1. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (A New Covenant Law).
    #2. The Law of Sin and Death (Law of Moses or Old Covenant Law).

    The Law of Sin and Death got it's name by the fact that you would face physical death (capital punishment) if you were to break certain moral laws of God within the Law of Moses. This is not the case today under the New Covenant. For the Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12); And if you were to stumble on occasion in sin (in your walk of becoming more holy with the LORD), you have an advocate that you can go to so as to confess your sin (1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9) and so as to forsake it (1 John 1:7) (Also see Proverbs 28:13).

    This is talking about our past life of when we were an unbeliever and not a believer. For when you read Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23, you also have to read Romans 3:11 that says, "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." (Romans 3:11). In other words, if you are of the position that there is none righteous (Including the saints), then you also have to conclude that that the saints (including yourself) have no understanding and do not seek after God, too. So surely Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 do not mean what you have been led to believe.

    In fact, Romans 8:3 says "what the Law could not do" is clearly in reference to the Old Law and not the New Law. For why would any New Law be applied to this statement? It clearly is in reference to the Old Law or the Law of Moses. For the New Covenant did not begin until Christ's death.

    Also, the righteous requirement of the Law is to be fulfilled in us according to Romans 8:4. These are they who walk not after the flesh (sin) but they who walk after the Spirit.

    Romans 8:13 says that if you live after the flesh you will die. This is said to believers and not unbelievers.

    Yes, those who are controlled by the flesh (sin) cannot please God. There are numerous other verses that say the same thiing.

    5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
    6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
    7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them."
    (Colossians 3:5-7).

    A person has to have Jesus living in them in order to have life (See 1 John 5:12). In other words, a person who is saved knows Jesus. However, those who claim they know Him and do not keep His Commands are a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4 cf. 1 John 2:3-6). For it is Christ that works in you to do God's work and it is not by your own power alone in doing good works (See John 15:5).

    Yes, this is the heart of salvation. If one has the LORD living within them, then good fruit and not bad fruit will be evident within their life. If bad fruit is the only fruit that is there, then they need to repent and get their heart right with the LORD.

    Actually, there are several passages that tell us that you cannot be out of fellowship with God and be saved.

    #1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.

    #2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).

    #3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.

    #4. Psalms 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).

    #5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.

    #6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

    #7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.

    I am not in disagreement that we need Jesus and faith to be saved. That is the foundation of our faith whereby we seek to obey Jesus. Be we are not our own Lord's and masters. Oh, and yes. Obeying God's laws is a part of the package deal in salvation. You cannot do evil and claim you are of God. It doesn't work like that. If you do evil or sin, then you are evil. It's how you know the good guys from the bad guys when you turn on your TV or go out into the world. Granted, I am not saying that God's people cannot sin and that there are not cases where some were saved primarily by God's grace (Like the thief on the cross, Samson, and Solomon). But believers who generally live out their faith and are truly saved shine forth the light (good works) of Christ within them.

    Those who do evil (with no repentance) are not saved (Regardless of whether they call themselves a believer or not). While God can use both believers and evil unbelievers for his ultimate plan for good, that does not mean God approves or saves those who do evil.

    Luke 17:1-3 is talking about false believers in GOD who make little children and or new spiritual brethren to stumble into sin. Jesus says it would be better that a milestone be hung about this person's neck and they were cast at sea if they were to do this.

    Jesus speaks elsewhere about this.

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves" (Matthew 23:15).

    In other words, new converts end up being twofold the child of hell than their teachers are (in regards to sin). No doubt, there is nothing new under the sun. There are religious people today who teach that you can sin and still be saved (or that sin cannot separate you from God). This type of teaching would obviously lead religious people to live even more sinfully then their masters or teachers. For today, many erroneously believe that you are automatically forgiven of your present and future sins. This is taking away the consequence of sin leading a person to believe they can live however they like with the thinking they are saved. For many in this camp believe they can continue in sin (with no repentance in some cases) and still be in God's good graces. But the Bible, life, and morality does not teach such a thing.


    ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  14. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +104,224
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    i agree.

    Even Paul used his legal right as a citizen of Rome to defend himself.
     
  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,054
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Defending oneself in a court of law vs. (versus) defending oneself using violence are two different things. One is violent and the other is not.


    ...
     
  16. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +104,224
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    i was responding to dogs4thewin, agreeing that one has the right to defend oneself and others (in court or otherwise).

    The perpetrator of the violence determines if violence will be required in the defense of oneself or others.
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,054
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    First, you replied to him openly on a public thread. So this means other can reply to what you have said.

    Second, there are no verses that suggest that Paul's time in court had anything to do with defending himself using physical violence. If you believe otherwise, then you have to provide Scripture that this is so (Instead of just taking your word for it). As a matter of fact, there is no New Testament passage or verse that supports the idea of using physical violence as a part of self defense.


    ...
     
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,054
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    First, you replied to him openly on a public thread. So this means other people can reply to what you have said. If you wanted only him to respond alone, a private conversation with him would have been better.

    Second, there are no verses that suggest that Paul's time in court had anything to do with defending himself using physical violence. If you believe otherwise, then you have to provide Scripture that this is so (Instead of us all just taking your word for it).


    ...
     
  19. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +104,224
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    Please read my post again.

    That's not what i said about Paul.

    (dogs4thewin is a "she".)
     
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +5,054
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I realize that. But it can be implied that is what you meant. The deciding factor here is the Word of God. So please find a verse or passage that suggests that physical violence in self defense is supported by the New Testament.

    Sorry about that.
    The forum I was on before had the letters color coded to make it easier to identify who was male and female. Granted, I have been on here a while but it is still easy to make that mistake.


    ...
     
Loading...