Non-Violence as Taught in the New Testament is Moral and Good.

[Bible Highlighter]

You're saying we are not to use force to defend our selves as the only acceptable action is pacifism yet you want others to shrug that off and use violence. Why should the cops not just have faith, pray and demand violent criminals stop in Jesus name rather then endanger their closeness to your deity by not being pacifists?

Because they don't believe the New Testament Scriptures on Non-Violence.

Also, I did not write God's Word.
So they are not my words but God's words.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Does this mean that you don't believe any police officers are believers?

Not all Christians are wise and or knowledgeable in their faith. If a person follows Jesus, even their job will be insignificant in time and they will find a way with God's help to serve the Lord 100%.


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[Bible Highlighter]

You're going to depend on people violating the rules of your religion to save you? Wouldn't you want them to join you in doing the right thing and refuse to be violent?

I just plant seeds. It is God who gives the increase.


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[Bible Highlighter]

As for relying others to save me:

I don't think you get it. If God chooses to save my physical life or not in a given situation is up to God. If I am tortured and persecuted for my faith and die for Jesus, I would consider that an honor. I would praise His name in Heaven. If God saved me from being killed here on this Earth, I would praise His name here.


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[Bible Highlighter]

As for chiding Christian officers: That is something you are inventing. I am just a messenger of God's Word. If they receive that message, then praise be to the Lord. If they don't receive it, that is something that is on them.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I don't think that you do. You depend on people not being pacifists for society to keep functioning.

As I said before. People depend on a lot things that they don't do. Not everyone is a pilot and yet someone else flies for them. Not everyone is a super spy. Yet, someone else can do what others cannot do or only dream of doing. Not everyone cleans toilets within public places. But somebody has to do that job. Somebody has to do the dirty work.

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[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don't think that you do. You depend on people not being pacifists for society to keep functioning.

Actually,
the people it seems you depend on
(though perhaps not)
would willingly snuff out the lives of
tens of thousands of babies, children, teens and adults,
entire cities and countries,
if given the chance.

(and some of them have had the chance, and resulted in the
destruction of many millions already in the last hundred years.)

Without the violent ones, and worse yet the ones PROMPTING , URGING, DIRECTING the violent ones (we cannot disclose here who the ones in power are) ,
there would be
,
what ???????
...
..
..
PEACE !

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I updated the original post with a few more verses.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I also updated the original post to explain common objections to New Testament Non-Violence, as well.


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[ewq1938]

I accidently posted this in the wrong section. I thought Ethics and Morality was in the Christians Only section. I am going to ask a Moderator to move the thread and edit out any atheist replies. I am not interested in discussing the Word of God with people who reject it.


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As per request I will move this to a Christians only forum. Those who are not Christian will not be able to continue to post. The thread will also be edited to reflect the above.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

But what about justice in a given situation? Should we stand by as we watch our family or friends or others get hurt? No. We can trust in God and pray to Him and act in a non-violent way so as to protect them.

Can you? Because Jesus didn't say to resist evil nonviolently. He said not to resist evil.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Can you? Because Jesus didn't say to resist evil nonviolently. He said not to resist evil.

First, good morning and good day to you this Thanks Giving Week. I appreciate the response.

Second, I just added a long list of verses to the original post in support of New Testament Non-Violence. I also added a few article links and two brief explanations on common objections to New Testament Non-Violence, as well. I hope you will take the time to check out my original post again and look at the verses and my explanations (When it is convenient for you).

Three, I believe Jesus did tell us to resist evil in a non-violent way because He quoted Scripture on an eye for an eye and then said something radically different as saying.... BUT I SAY UNTO YOU.... turn the other cheek to your agressor if you are hit on the cheek by them. In fact, Jesus's life is a testimony of non-violence. He was wounded for our transgressions, and by his stripes (whip marks) we are healed.

The only time Jesus appeared to be violent was when He turned over the tables with the moneychangers in the temple. But there is no record of Jesus actually hitting or hurting anyone physically at that event, though. Surely if Jesus did hurt anyone at the temple, they would have stepped forward so as to accuse Him of abusing them physically at His trial. The Scriptures say we are to behave like Christ. Jesus never returned violence for violence. That right there should be all you the evidence you need to drop your sword in exchange for solely taking up your cross (of suffering under persecution) instead.

For how can you physically be persecuted if you are fighting back and winning the battle?

Paul says the weapons of our warfare are not carnal (i.e. physical).


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[SoldierOfTheKing]

Three, I believe Jesus did tell us to resist evil in a non-violent way because He quoted Scripture on an eye for an eye and then said something radically different as saying.... BUT I SAY UNTO YOU.... turn the other cheek to your agressor if you are hit on the cheek by them.

Turning the cheek isn't non-violent resistance, it's non-resistance. Non-violent resistance would be running away. That and his precise words were "resist not evil". It would apply to non-violent as well as violent resistance. Jesus didn't offer non-violent resistance when it was his turn to give himself up to die. The message isn't one of pacifism, but rather of radical submission to authority. If Roman soldier makes you carry his bags a mile, carry them two miles.

But what about justice in a given situation? Should we stand by as we watch our family or friends or others get hurt? No. We can trust in God and pray to Him and act in a non-violent way so as to protect them.

The only time Jesus appeared to be violent was when He turned over the tables with the moneychangers in the temple. But there is no record of Jesus actually hitting or hurting anyone physically at that event, though.

If I shoot off a whole magazine full of rounds at a crowded shopping mall, but don't actually hit anyone, would you classify that as a non-violent act?

 

[dqhall]

Matthew 26:52, "Those who live by the sword will die by the sword."

I recall reading a study about households who owned a gun(s). These were more likely to die of gunshot wounds than the households not owning guns.

Jesus was non-violent. Jesus testified against the faction of the chief priests. He told them and they followed laws not from God, but laws invented by men. The chief priests brought police action against Jesus.

It is better Winston Churchill did not give England to Hitler. I imagine God was more pleased with England than Germany in those days.

General Constantine fought a campaign against other Roman generals. After military victory in the early 5th century, he legalized Christianity. He did not lose his reward.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Turning the cheek isn't non-violent resistance, it's non-resistance. Non-violent resistance would be running away. That and his precise words were "resist not evil". It would apply to non-violent as well as violent resistance. Jesus didn't offer non-violent resistance when it was his turn to give himself up to die. The message isn't one of pacifism, but rather of radical submission to authority. If Roman soldier makes you carry his bags a mile, carry them two miles.

Ah, I gotcha now. It is tricky wording, but I see your point. It is true. Jesus was teaching non-resistance. But this teaching by Jesus still supports Nonviolence, though.

But I believe the New Testament does teach non-violent resistance elsewhere. The saints had helped the newly converted Paul to escape the city from the Jews by way of lowering him in a basket (Acts 9:25). Peter was imprisoned by Herod and then was later delivered by an angel (Acts 12:11). In other words, Peter non-violently resisted against staying captured by Herod by cooperating with the angel so as to escape. In fact, Jesus says this to His disciples,

"But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another..." (Matthew 10:23).​

Translation: Use non-violent resistance (or run away to another town) when others persecute you in spreading the gospel.

But what about justice in a given situation? Should we stand by as we watch our family or friends or others get hurt? No. We can trust in God and pray to Him and act in a non-violent way so as to protect them.

I never suggested otherwise. It would be only natural to want to protect the people we love (like our family). But of course this would have to be done in a non-violent way (Whereby you are not seeking the other person who is attacking any kind of harm).

If I shoot off a whole magazine full of rounds at a crowded shopping mall, but don't actually hit anyone, would you classify that as a non-violent act?

No. It would be considered a violent act if a person shoots a gun in a mall because they showed aggression towards innocent people by shooting a firearm within a public place with no good reason to do so. The people in the mall would be scared by such a thing. This person would also would be damaging the building and they could have potentially hit somebody without their intention in doing so. If the police caught this person for doing such a thing, the police would see it as a violent act of aggression (even if the shooter did not intend harm). They would also want to know WHY this person was firing off a weapon that could have hurt somebody, too. If the shooter could not give the police a good reason, they would probably have their mental health checked (So as to eliminate this shooter in being a potential threat to society).

Jesus's situation was different. He was not firing a weapon that was really lethal into a crowd. If He was shooting flaming arrows at people, the people would take this as some form of an attack. They could have thought that somebody could have potentially died in such an attack and they could have arrested Him. So while Jesus did appear violent and acted aggressively by causing damage and by using a whip, none of these acts of aggression were life threatening (or none of them could be mistaken as a life threatening attack as what is normally employed within a normal battle). Hence, which is the reason why Jesus did not violate the code of Non-Violence in which He and His followers taught.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Matthew 26:52, "Those who live by the sword will die by the sword."

I recall reading a study about households who owned a gun(s). These were more likely to die of gunshot wounds than the households not owning guns.

Jesus was non-violent. Jesus testified against the faction of the chief priests. He told them and they followed laws not from God, but laws invented by men. The chief priests brought police action against Jesus.

Amen.

It is better Winston Churchill did not give England to Hitler. I imagine God was more pleased with England than Germany in those days.

General Constantine fought a campaign against other Roman generals. After military victory in the early 5th century, he legalized Christianity. He did not lose his reward.

I believe GOD deals differently with government powers than with His people. God uses governments as a form of justice. But that does not mean God wants His people in behaving like their governments or in getting caught up in it's ways. I believe GOD calls all believers to be separate from the world and to spread the gospel by the way of peace. While God's people spread the good news, GOD takes care of matters thru government powers so as to facilitate the spread of the gospel according to His greater plan for good. Remember how God intended to use the evil from Joseph's brothers as a form of good later on? Remember how God used Assyria to punish Israel (His people)? In other words, God has a way of using unbelievers for His greater purpose and plan for good.


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[FaithfulPilgrim]

I'm undecided about this, because I see both sides.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm undecided about this, because I see both sides.

Pray about it and let the truth of God's Word guide you, my friend.
As you may be aware of: I provided passages in my original that support New Testament Non-Violence and I provided links and brief explanations to common Scriptural objections against NT Non-Violence. Go over these verses again and again by way of prayer (And let God lead you).

I have no doubt that if you do that, the LORD will lead you to see the truth on this.

Please take note that while I may be a Proponent of Non-Violence while I am alive and living out my faith today, there is chance I will not be a Proponent of Non-Violence if the LORD chooses me to follow Him into battle at His second coming with me being in a disembodied (angelic) like state. (Note: However, Jesus will return in His physical flesh and blood body that He had since the resurrection).

In other words, if the LORD tells me to stop, I stop. If the LORD tells me to go, I go. This of course is all in line with God's greater plan for good.


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[Radrook]

There are times that Christians are called to be persecuted for their faith as a testimony for the cause of Jesus Christ. Remember when the Roman soldier looked at Jesus? He said, truly this was the Son of God. I imagine thru out history that there are certain men who were effected by the testimony of a Christian's persecution (in the fact that those who watched these Christian's tortured could see Christ living in them in their last moments of when they were alive) whereby it later changed them to live for the Lord.

Also, the Scriptures say,

"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:10).

"Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints." (Psalms 116:15).



Wow. And you don't think God is capable of answering her prayer so as to help her? Really? Where is your faith? I mean, regardless of whether or not God helps her. The fact that you think that the LORD would not want her to place her trust in Him is just all out absurdity. For without faith it is impossible to please God.


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Yes, I am aware that Christians should expect to be persecuted. However, I don't think that God wants us to accept being savaged by someone who is trying to maim r kill us without our doing SOMEHING in self defense.
Is it a sin to block a punch? I had a person attack me once and accuse me of causing damage to her hands because I blocked. Do I think that God doesn't want met run if a Rhino is charging my way? No I do not. I think he wants me to search for a tree or a ditch where I might find safety. Does he want met pray. Yes! But I can do that while I seek safety. It doesn't mean that I don't have faith. The devil told Jesus to leap from a high place and Jesus answered that we should not test God it that way. Did Jesus lack faith? Of course not.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, I am aware that Christians should expect to be persecuted. However, I don't think that God wants us to accept being savaged by someone who is trying to maim r kill us without our doing SOMEHING in self defense.
Is it a sin to block a punch? I had a person attack me once and accuse me of causing damage to her hands because I blocked. Do I think that God doesn't want met run if a Rhino is charging my way? No I do not. I think he wants me to search for a tree or a ditch where I might find safety. Does he want met pray. Yes! But I can do that while I seek safety. It doesn't mean that I don't have faith. The devil told Jesus to leap from a high place and Jesus answered that we should not test God it that way. Did Jesus lack faith? Of course not.

Nowhere did I say I am against non violent forms of self defense.


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