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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

None so blind as those who will not see.

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mark kennedy

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I am reading, 'A Table in the Presense', were the 5th Marine Regiment's Chaplin describes how they experienced God's presense during the War in Iraq. He describes a marines helmet being removed with a hole on both sides and the marine was uninjured. That is just one example and there are things like this going on in the world around us. This may be inexplicable but it is things like this that demonstrate God's protection in tangable ways. The purpose of writting the book was to let people who prayed for these men know that their prayers were answered on the battlefeilds of Iraq.

Years ago I was attending a small charismatic baptist church (yes there is such a thing) and they prayed every service for a pregnant womans baby. The diagnosis from her doctors was that the baby, if it survived at all, would be horribly deformed. They recommended an abortion but that was out of the question. Some time after that I stopped attending but my wife was still aquintied with some of them because they were relatives. She asked about the baby and they said that when the baby was born her regular doctor was out of town. The doctor that filled in for him read the prognosis and obviously she figured she was in for a hard day. When the baby came out it had a cleft pallet and and web toes. When the doctor examined the baby they say she did a sort of dance and shouted, "shes perfect!"

I read the American Legion magazine and while they can seperate God from virtually every aspect of government, the military can't. They did an article on the power of prayer and cited an American Medical Association study that was done over several years. They found that you had a 50% better chance of recovery from serious medical problems if you prayed, even if you didn't believe. They will tell you this is some kind of a placebo effect, I say it is the power of God as proof of His compassion.

Evolution attributes to natural processes things that God alone can do. Like they say in Intelligent Design arguments, natural selection can explain the survival of the fittest but not the arrival of the fittest. When God does something like a miracle He does it in such a way as to provide unavoidable proof. God preserves, God protects and God does things that only God can do, God is involved in our world and in our lives. God is evident the the things that are made so that men are without excuse.

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

"For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles." (Romans 1:18-23)​

I'm getting away from the creation/evolution discussions for one reason. A proof is a proof except when it proves God's power in modern science. The mere suggestion that God acted in time and space to produce all living systems as a deliberate act, with an expressed purpose, is viewed as psuedo science. It can't be considered scientific if God is the cause and I say why not? I have read their literature, their peer reviewed scientific journals, their empirical research and found the theory of evolution (the single common ancestor model) to be counter to the actual scientific evidence, especially genetics. After literally hundreds of exchanges with apologists for TOE I found their arguments to be tedious and lacking any genetic basis for macroevolutionary change. A couple of choice quotes:

No limit to this process of improvement:

"As each species is improved, and as the number of forms will have increased, if we look to the whole course of time, the organic condition of life for other forms will become more complex, and there will be a necessity for other forms to become improved, or they will be exterminated; and I can see no limit to this process of improvement, without the intervention of any other and direct principle of improvement. All this seems to me quite compatible with certain forms fitted for simple conditions, remaining unaltered, or being degraded. If I have a second edition, I will reiterate `Natural Selection', and, as a general consequence, Natural Improvement." (Darwin's letter to Lyell on Natural Selection)

Limits beyond which they cannot change:

“Gärtner, by the results of these transformation experiments, was led to oppose the opinion of those naturalists who dispute the stability of plant species and believe in a continuous evolution of vegetation. He perceives in the complete transformation of one species into another an indubitable proof that species are fixed with limits beyond which they cannot change.” (Mendel)

"What is the use of their unceasing mutations if they do not change? In sum, the mutations of bacteria and viruses are merely hereditary fluctuations around a median position; a swing to the right, a swing to the left, but no final evolutionary effect." (Pierre-Paul Grasse')

There is either a limit to the process of improvement or there are limits beyond which things cannot completely transform into another 'kind'. Genetics has demonstrated that fundamental changes to the genes produce sever disease and disorder but school children are being taught that these mutations are what drives evolution. This is a myth, a fantasy and a lie.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 

mark kennedy

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Thanks Remus, I enjoyed the exchanges and learned a lot about biology as a result. I am still interested in the subject but there is no point in arguing against a prejudiced opinion like the naturalistic assumptions in modern TOE.

Grace to you and peace through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
Mark
 
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