Non-Violence as Taught in the New Testament is Moral and Good.

[Bible Highlighter]

David addressed this. Sometimes God uses people to protect people, just as He uses people to speak the Gospel, care for the poor, etc.

Psalm 46:1{To the chief Musician for the sons of Korah, A Song upon Alamoth.} God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble

Psalm 144:1{A Psalm of David.} Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:

This is Old Testament and not New Testament.
Surely you don't sacrifice animals to a priest anymore, do you?


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[Radrook]

But this was the Old Testament. We are saints who are a part of the New Testament. We no longer have to offer animal sacrifices to a priest anymore according to the Old Law. We no longer prevented in eating unclean animals, etc. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

The way of Christ is a higher and better way of living than for the way of the Old Testament saint.

"But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises." (Hebrews 8:6).

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The statement I was replying to claimed that killing in self defense was prohibited during Old Testament times. So I replied with an Old Testament example.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Not always. Sometimes fighting can makes things worse. Sometimes violence can makes things worse. For example: Parents have shot their own children thinking they were an intruder in their own home.


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Yes sometimes usually when you shoot your own children in cases like that it is because either they are BEHAVING like an intruder OR they are trying to get in and cannot and so you shoot them thinking they mean harm.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The statement I was replying to claimed that killing in self defense was prohibited during Old Testament times. So I replied with an Old Testament example.

I realize that. But just to be clear, this example in Scripture is no longer in effect for believers today. God uses unbelieving ministers to carry out his justice (like the police and the military, etc. - According to Romans 13).


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[Bible Highlighter]

Yes sometimes usually when you shoot your own children in cases like that it is because either they are BEHAVING like an intruder OR they are trying to get in and cannot and so you shoot them thinking they mean harm.

So the child is to blame?
If this father was Christian and he believed the Scriptures, then that would not have happened. There would be no need for this father to carry such guilt if he followed the way of Christ.


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[dogs4thewin]

So the child is to blame?
If this father was Christian and he believed the Scriptures, then that would not have happened. There would be no need for this father to carry such guilt if he followed the way of Christ.


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If you behave like you mean serious harm then one can expect that violence will be used aganist him or her.

 

[Hank77]

There are times that Christians are called to be persecuted for their faith as a testimony for the cause of Jesus Christ.

Persecution for the sake of the Gospel, for sake of the kingdom, is not the same as being killed because someone just wants to harm you or someone else just because they are a killer.

To even say they are the same is, imho, disrespectful.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Persecution for the sake of the Gospel, for sake of the kingdom, is not the same as being killed because someone just wants to harm you or someone else just because they are a killer.

To even say they are the same is, imho, disrespectful.

Verses please and not opinion. Please provide NT verses and not OT ones.


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[Bible Highlighter]

If you behave like you mean serious harm then one can expect that violence will be used aganist him or her.

So again, is the child at fault?


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[Bible Highlighter]

Also, who are gun owners here and believe they can be used in self defense?


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[Hank77]

While God can use unbelieving ministers for his way of justice (According to Romans 13), that does not mean he wants His followers to act violently (Which would run contrary to His Word in the New Testament).

Also, sometimes fighting can makes things worse. Sometimes violence can makes things worse. For example: Parents have shot their own children thinking they were an intruder in their own home.

You reap what you sow. So if you sow violence, then violence is what you are going to reap. For Jesus says he that lives by the sword shall die by the sword.


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Live by the sword...this means to practice violence, that is to make violence a part of your life.

Jesus didn't want his followers to use violence as a way of defending the Gospel or the Kingdom.

 

[Hank77]

This is Old Testament and not New Testament.
Surely you don't sacrifice animals to a priest anymore, do you?


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Jesus replaced that sacrifice.
Has violence taken against people been replaced, has it been stopped yet? Have blood thirsty killers been replaced? They are the ones who do live by the sword and may very well die by the sword.

The OT has much that is still relevant today.

 

[Hank77]

So the child is to blame?
If this father was Christian and he believed the Scriptures, then that would not have happened. There would be no need for this father to carry such guilt if he followed the way of Christ.


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And was an irresponsible gun owner.
But this has nothing to do with what the Bible says about self-defense.

 

[Hank77]

If you behave like you mean serious harm then one can expect that violence will be used aganist him or her.

One should never physically harm someone if they have not been threatened with bodily harm by that person. Someone climbing through your window does not mean that they are there to physically harm you or anyone else.

 

[Hank77]

Verses please and not opinion. Please provide NT verses and not OT ones.


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You provide scripture either OT or NT that says one cannot defend themselves against a violent killer. You haven't done that yet.

You seem to think God's protection has changed between the OT and the NT.

 

[Hank77]

Also, who are gun owners here and believe they can be used in self defense?


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That would be me.

 

[Landon Caeli]

One should never physically harm someone if they have not been threatened with bodily harm by that person. Someone climbing through your window does not mean that they are there to physically harm you or anyone else.

True, we tell our daughters that if they are being chased or attacked, that one option is to run to a home and knock - even enter inside without permission if need be... then do the explaining...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Live by the sword...this means to practice violence, that is to make violence a part of your life.

Jesus didn't want his followers to use violence as a way of defending the Gospel or the Kingdom.

The gospel is a way of life. It is a part of us. We are to live and breath the gospel. So non-violence is a part of that. Also, nowhere will you find any verse or passage in the New Testament that commands God's people to use violence as a part of self defense. Nowhere do we even see Jesus or His followers take up swords to fight in self defense.


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[Bible Highlighter]

That would be me.

So you have invested interest in guns already. So it would be harder for you to accept what the Scriptures are saying on this matter.


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[Bible Highlighter]

You provide scripture either OT or NT that says one cannot defend themselves against a violent killer. You haven't done that yet.

I already have provided verses in my original post that shows that we are not to act violently in self defense.

You seem to think God's protection has changed between the OT and the NT.

There are many instances where God has protected His people without them using violent force in them having to defend themselves using any kind of swords or fists of fury. But the focus here is the New Testament and not the Old Testament. The Old Testament or Old Covenant is no longer in effect. We are New Covenant believers and not Old Covenant believers. This is evident by the fact that believers today do not offer animal sacrifices anymore to a priest.


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