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If you mean that in the Left Behind sense, the answer is no. Bear in mind that I'm a partial-Preterist (ie, an Orthodox Preterist) so End Timey matters don't weigh heavily on my mind.Ok, my apologies, that was never my intention as I made it clear.
Please kindly answer my question asked of you in my previous post, as to whether you support a universalist one world religious ideology?
You're again imputing nefarious motives upon my posts. "Fishing people along"? Honestly. I will not ask you again. Please stop assigning your conspiracy theories to my posts. I believe I've been fair with you. Please be fair with me in return.As Jesus said I come with a sword to separate my sheep from the rest of the world. Universalism (interfaith) is the world and as Christians we should not be supporting such apostate venture.
To be frank and honest with one another, we must make our intentions clear upfront, rather than fishing people along to impregnate them with hints of universalism, which is tied to myriads of manifestations of false gods of the false religions of the world.
If you mean that in the Left Behind sense, the answer is no. Bear in mind that I'm a partial-Preterist (ie, an Orthodox Preterist) so End Timey matters don't weigh heavily on my mind.
You're again imputing nefarious motives upon my posts. "Fishing people along"? Honestly. I will not ask you again. Please stop assigning your conspiracy theories to my posts. I believe I've been fair with you. Please be fair with me in return.
Now, I do support the Catholic Church's ecumenical dialogues as mutual understanding has a demonstrable track record of enhancing unity. For example, the Catholic Church is better understood and respected by the evangelical community now than it was back in, say, the 1970's. The reason for that is because my Church's leaders made dialogue and ecumenism a priority. Catholics better understand evangelicals and evangelicals better understand Catholics now as a result. I would see unity return to the Christian world as Our Lord intended.
But if one must eschew the Trinity, I can only see increasing the number of manifestations rather than decreasing them.
I also believe in interfaith dialogues. Many Muslims, for example, believe that Christians are polytheists based on our belief in the Trinity. As such, many dislike us because they believe we reject monotheism. Dialogues work to correct those misunderstandings. Recognizing commonality in a supposed enemy is one step closer to peace and acceptance.I am not talking within the Christian context of talks, that I have no problems with. Rather I am pointing out the interfaith side and its kitten caboodle.
You moved the goal posts in your second post, the one to which I replied. I'll deal with the middle section of your post momentarily. For now...You haven't answered my question and this is your second attempt.
I don't think there's a simple yes or no answer to that. Did God inspire those religions? I don't believe so, no. Those are not the faith once and for all delivered to the saints. And I've seen credible arguments that they were actually inspired by demonic episodes of some description. Who can say? But they were not inspired by God and thus at best have an imperfect and incomplete understanding of God.My question to you is.......
Do you believe that th Egyptians, the Buddhists, the Hindus and the rest of the interfaith religions out there, worship the God of the Bible?
Yes/No?
No. He doesn't.Listen please, your head priest believes in universalist one world religion, which is based on the concept of God manifesting himself in different forms to the different religions of the world.
Ok, my apologies, that was never my intention as I made it clear.
Please kindly answer my question asked of you in my previous post, as to whether you support a universalist one world religious ideology?
I also believe in interfaith dialogues. Many Muslims, for example, believe that Christians are polytheists based on our belief in the Trinity. As such, many dislike us because they believe we reject monotheism. Dialogues work to correct those misunderstandings. Recognizing commonality in a supposed enemy is one step closer to peace and acceptance.
We can debate amongst ourselves how successful those dialogues have been considering the continuing stereotype many Muslims have of Christians as polytheists, of course, but I do admire the Church's attempts to clarify what we truly do believe among those who have no understanding of Christianity.
I don't think there's a simple yes or no answer to that. Did God inspire those religions? I don't believe so, no. Those are not the faith once and for all delivered to the saints. And I've seen credible arguments that they were actually inspired by demonic episodes of some description. Who can say? But they were not inspired by God and thus at best have an imperfect and incomplete understanding of God.
That having been said, the Catholic Church teaches that each religion might have some amount of truth to it. By definition it won't be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The Church teaches that she alone has that. But they may have some facet of belief in common with us.
No. He doesn't.
The Nicene Creed itself requires belief in a universal church, which can pbviously be interpreted in different ways, hence the Ecclesiology subforum. It also precludes syncretism with the clause "I believe in one God," so IMO we don't need to go there.
But with the huge dilemma that the one God mentioned in the Nicene Creed isn't the God of the counterfeit religions of the world and so the Nicene Creed is universal within the context of the body of Christ and certainly not those who have been baptised by the Hindu goddess Sheba or the Buddha or the snake worshippers of the world or the South American witch doctors.
Universalist church in Christ!
We have a mandate to share the faith. If viewing us as polytheists as some Moslems do is a barrier to conversion, we owe it our would-be brothers and sisters in Christ to clarify the true nature of our beliefs. Even if only a few thousand Moslems out of millions are converted, it's worth the effort.The argument sounds fair at first glance, but as Christians we don't care how the world looks at us, nor perceives us. Saint Paul repeatedly instructs us that we are not to comply with the world based on concessional grounds which you have implied in this statement. Their misunderstandings of us is either two fold, that is, either we are not doing our great commission job properly and preaching to them Christ for their conversion or that they have heard but are not interested, in which we are obligated to wipe the dust of our feet as instructed by the Lord and to let their denial of the gospel of Jesus Christ be a curse onto them as the Lord has declared.
No. I don't. For the reasons I've cited above.Again the word used here TO CLARIFY what we believe amongst non-Christians who have no understanding, is a cope out, don't you think?
Then it is incumbent upon their priests and other authorities to correct their misapprehensions.Let me rephrase your statement in regards to imperfect and incomplete understanding of God sounds like to to young Christians. They will perceive that non-Christians too are worshipping the God of the Bible, but in an incorrect and uninspired manner.
I do believe the argument, at least intellectually, is unassailable. Either the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Our Lord or else there is no true authority from God anywhere in the world that guides and leads.So what you are advocating is the lone the Catholid leadership has been pushing for the last three or four decades, by teaching going Christians that we the Catholic Church are the genuine article and even those who are counterfeits have truths and therefore we should embrace them.
Through history popes have been persecuted, beaten, pursued or even martyred without renouncing the faith. Pope Francis walks to the beat of his own drummer, there can be no doubt of that, but he risks his life in so much as going outdoors in ways that his most recent predecessors simply haven't. ISIS and similar extremists would love to separate the Holy Father's head from his shoulders. They've outright said he's one of their targets. It's funny to me how those same terrorists hordes haven't targeted Protestant leaders. Nope, only the Pope has so far earned a death warrant from those savages.You shall know them by their works says the Lord!
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
Universalism:
The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years
Universalist Publishing House, 1899
Chapter 7: Three Gnostic Sects.
By J.W. HANSON, D. D.
The Basilidians. The Carpocratians. The Valentinians.
Three Gnostic sects flourished nearly simultaneously in the Second Century, all which accepted universal salvation: the Basilidians, the Valentinians, and the Carpocratians.
In fact the apostle in 2 Thessalonians 2:11 even warns of THE LIE being flogged off in his time by wait for it, GNOSTICS.
The Gnosticism of the First Century embraced the doctrine of Universal Salvation (Universalism). In fact there were three gnostic branches that were kicked out by the apostles, because they had infiltrated and started to spread within the numbers and John preached to the believers that
What you are saying sounds like Sabellianism. Are you saying that right now in heaven there is only One Being?He is of one in the same substance as the Father. The Nicene Creed states that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit has also his unique personal role.
There is one Godbeing in contrast to many human beings.
Even before the incarnatiom in human flesh (blood), the Son who is visible Yahweh appeared to many prophets of Old as the Angel of of Yahweh's presence. Prophet Daniel called him the Son of Man. So we have a distinction of the same infinite Godbeing between the invisible Father and His Holy Spirit and the visible Son.
The person of visible Yahweh in his creation where it be as the Angel of Yahweh's presence or in the servant form as Jesus of Nazareth is still identified as the preeminent Son before all creation as the uncreated Son, implying Yahweh Godbeing is present simultaneously in both realms with a different role/persona yet the one in the same Godbeing/substance. That is why visible Yahweh is called Emmanuel meaning Yahweh is with us.
That is why the manifestation of the Living Word who is of the one indivisible Holy Holy Holy Spirit is also of the one in the same Spirit who is God (John 4:24). So the one infinite Spirit within him has three distinct persona's / roles and these three is the one God.
For a human being to have three persona's would render that finite person with a multiple personality disorder which some humans are diagnosed with. The one infinite Spirit of the Godbeing/substance has done this within him to define himself as a relationship between a loving Father and a loving Son whilst the one Spirit testifies or narrates this epic love story between the two as the third personality in the trinity of persona's. Why God does this defines why he is called Love and how he does this is a mystery that he has not revealed.
Some project this verse to encompass the whole enterprise of God from the old testament to the New Testament and this would essentially also indicate a preincarnation presence of the Living Word as the Angel of Yahweh's presence right to the man Jesus of Nazareth. Prophet Daniel called him the Son of Man before incarnation and after incarnation he was called the Son of God and this was to also adopt us into his heavenly family, being joined to the epic love story.
That is why Jesus would say you are my mother, brothers and sisters.
If you have a problem with the Great Commission, your complaint is with the Lord, not me.Welcome to the strong delusion of universalist salvation.
We have a mandate to share the faith. If viewing us as polytheists as some Moslems do is a barrier to conversion, we owe it our would-be brothers and sisters in Christ to clarify the true nature of our beliefs. Even if only a few thousand Moslems out of millions are converted, it's worth the effort.
This is one of the many problems I have with Protestant Christianity. There's no vision to it. There's no long game. The Catholic Church converted the Roman Empire to Christianity in spite of being a hated minority because she consistently taught that, yes, Christianity IS theism rather than the atheism people of the time believed it to be. Had the Church taken your advice back in the first century, she wouldn't have survived into the second century.
Then it is incumbent upon their priests and other authorities to correct their misapprehensions.
I do believe the argument, at least intellectually, is unassailable. Either the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Our Lord or else there is no true authority from God anywhere in the world that guides and leads.
Those wrong religions are not to be "embraced", whatever that means. We're to share the gospel with them so that they can complete their conversion and serve the true God.
The Church's point is and has been that even wrong religions may have some nugget of truth to them. The purpose of that teaching, apart from recognizing the obvious, is to help the Catholic understand that these people seek truth themselves and are faithfully obeying what they have been taught. In many cases there is no sinister motive to their belief. We are blessed for having a saving faith but we are not somehow superior because of it.
The recognition of possible truth in other religions is intended to be a starting point for evangelism.
Through history popes have been persecuted, beaten, pursued or even martyred without renouncing the faith. Pope Francis walks to the beat of his own drummer, there can be no doubt of that, but he risks his life in so much as going outdoors in ways that his most recent predecessors simply haven't. ISIS and similar extremists would love to separate the Holy Father's head from his shoulders. They've outright said he's one of their targets. It's funny to me how those same terrorists hordes haven't targeted Protestant leaders. Nope, only the Pope has so far earned a death warrant from those savages.
If Pope Francis does get martyred, the Church will elect a new pope. The mission will go on.
If you have a problem with the Great Commission, your complaint is with the Lord, not me.
What you are saying sounds like Sabellianism. Are you saying that right now in heaven there is only One Being?
Universalism is a nasty heresy, but it is not inherently Gnostic.
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