Non-religious philosophical frameworks

[Zoness]

This thread is addressed to Atheists/Agnostics/Non-religious/Other/Questioning etc.,

Atheism, as we know, I simply the lack of belief in a god or gods. This only covers a small question in philosophy. So bearing that in mind, do you ascribe any other philosophical systems for determining your worldview? I know some folks who describe themselves as Secular Humanists rather than Atheist for example, as Atheism is a really broad term. Honestly, I think political systems count here too since politics deals with the real world as well.

If you decided on a specific model or worldview, how did you arrive at your conclusions? What methodology or resources did you use?

Happy Friday

 

[“Paisios”]

Curious on the responses to this thread, as I have never understood (NOT condemned, but not understood) atheism. It has always seemed very nilistic to me, and I would like to understand various atheistic viewpoints better.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I can't think of any specific model which I fully conform to....but many which have aspects I agree with.

 

[Carbon]

Fallibilism is a good start. The antidote to dogma and the fuel for limitless progress.

 

[“Paisios”]

Fallibilism is a good start. The antidote to dogma and the fuel for limitless progress.

No offense , but seems like wishful thinking, and subject to the same criticisms without a God. I prefer to believe in the God with Whom I have had encounters (as weak an argument as I know that is).

 

[Zoness]

No offense , but seems like wishful thinking, and subject to the same criticisms without a God. I prefer to believe in the God with Whom I have had encounters (as weak an argument as I know that is).

It's weak, but I definitely get the appeal of it and I think it's sufficient for a lot of people. Personally I've never had such personal experiences which is why revealed religion hasn't ever really fit well with me. Besides of cultural or political reasons.

 

[“Paisios”]

It's weak, but I definitely get the appeal of it and I think it's sufficient for a lot of people. Personally I've never had such personal experiences which is why revealed religion hasn't ever really fit well with me. Besides of cultural or political reasons.

I am not an apologist, and I am a scientist. It is hard for me to make an argument for religion, but my own encounters with God lead me to believe and to seek rational explanations for them...not necessarily to bring others to faith.

 

[Silmarien]

This thread is addressed to Atheists/Agnostics/Non-religious/Other/Questioning etc.,

Atheism, as we know, I simply the lack of belief in a god or gods. This only covers a small question in philosophy. So bearing that in mind, do you ascribe any other philosophical systems for determining your worldview? I know some folks who describe themselves as Secular Humanists rather than Atheist for example, as Atheism is a really broad term. Honestly, I think political systems count here too since politics deals with the real world as well.

If you decided on a specific model or worldview, how did you arrive at your conclusions? What methodology or resources did you use?

Happy Friday

When I was a non-theist, I was an existentialist. I've always suffered from pretty acute, pretty constant self-consciousness and existential angst, so the first time I read Jean Paul Sartre, everything he said just seemed obviously, intuitively true to me. And then Heidegger even more so. My philosophers were the type who discarded metaphysics and focused exclusively on the question of Being-in-the-world, the experiential side of the mystery of existence, and that is what I have always cared about more.

Of course, this has always put me in a different camp entirely than the far more common scientific naturalism, my disdain for which is too extreme to be easily put in words.

 

[Carbon]

No offense , but seems like wishful thinking, and subject to the same criticisms without a God. I prefer to believe in the God with Whom I have had encounters (as weak an argument as I know that is).

To respond in detail I would need a better idea of what appears to you as wishful thinking. But the connection between fallibilism and potential for progress is fundamental, albeit counter-intuitive.

 

[juvenissun]

This thread is addressed to Atheists/Agnostics/Non-religious/Other/Questioning etc.,

Atheism, as we know, I simply the lack of belief in a god or gods. This only covers a small question in philosophy. So bearing that in mind, do you ascribe any other philosophical systems for determining your worldview? I know some folks who describe themselves as Secular Humanists rather than Atheist for example, as Atheism is a really broad term. Honestly, I think political systems count here too since politics deals with the real world as well.

If you decided on a specific model or worldview, how did you arrive at your conclusions? What methodology or resources did you use?

Happy Friday

Humanism IS a version of atheism. All philosophical systems are humanistic. They are ALL different versions of atheism. Philosophy means wisdom of human (only).

A philosophy can have unknowns, but can not have god, even god itself could be treated as an unknown, the idea of a unknown god is still forbidden.

 

[Silmarien]

Humanism IS a version of atheism. All philosophical systems are humanistic. They are ALL different versions of atheism. Philosophy means wisdom of human (only).

A philosophy can have unknowns, but can not have god, even god itself could be treated as an unknown, the idea of a unknown god is still forbidden.

Catholic philosophy is atheistic?

 

[juvenissun]

Catholic philosophy is atheistic?

Catholic is religious. So Catholic philosophy is religious. Catholic philosophy has god.

 

[Silmarien]

Catholic is religious. So Catholic philosophy is religious. Catholic philosophy has god.

So why are you saying that all philosophical systems are atheistic? Theistic philosophy exists too.

 

[juvenissun]

So why are you saying that all philosophical systems are atheistic? Theistic philosophy exists too.

Theistic philosophy is not philosophy. It is theology. A theology is having god play a role in the philosophy.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

This thread is addressed to Atheists/Agnostics/Non-religious/Other/Questioning etc.,

Atheism, as we know, I simply the lack of belief in a god or gods. This only covers a small question in philosophy. So bearing that in mind, do you ascribe any other philosophical systems for determining your worldview? I know some folks who describe themselves as Secular Humanists rather than Atheist for example, as Atheism is a really broad term. Honestly, I think political systems count here too since politics deals with the real world as well.

If you decided on a specific model or worldview, how did you arrive at your conclusions? What methodology or resources did you use?

Happy Friday

When I was young, as in ages 5 through 17, I was basically an emotionally confused kid who only had a small affinity for the most basic of ideas surrounding Jesus, and I was more or less an informal agnostic during that time, not knowing what was what in life or as to what to make of it all. My worldview back then was made up more of comic book morality and iconography, Carl Sagan Cosmology, and to some extent, sheer existential angst, than anything else.

One thing I've always had going for me, however, has been an ongoing desire to want to live in a world of social peace and beauty, along with a proclivity to ask questions. Between ages 17 and 22, both essential Christianity and my later, gradual taking up of Philosophy helped me to expand my view of the world beyond what I had previously been able to realize in my earlier years, and I've discovered and learned some interesting things about the world along the way every since then.

Beyond that, I can't say much more since now--much later in life--I try to be Christian rather than agnostic in my overall outlook. I will say that the field of Hermenuetics (as a sub-strand of Philosophy) has played part and parcel in my mode of analyzing and evaluating the world around me. It hasn't provided me with all of the answers I'd like to have or with any world shaking restoration to my personal dysfunctions, but as a mode of investigation, it has helped me to organize my thoughts about the world, about religion, and even come to understand why human emotions and perceptions, whether my own or those of other people, have been so screwy existentially and psychologically speaking...

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Theism simply ceased to make any sense to me once I had grown up, at least if we define deity as it is commonly understood, i.e. a supernatural person or persons who interfere with reality by numinous means and influence what's going on on this planet.
I know there are some highly intellectual theists who manage to carry the idea of divinity to more abstract, more sophisticated levels - but the way I see it, they are either making a HUGE effort to rationalise very simplistic ideas about the nature of the cosmos and try to make them appear more than they are, or they are veering so far off the classical concept of a "god" that they might just as well call themselves non-theists, because their deity is not really a person, and more like the benevolent principle behind reality as a whole.

I don't really follow any specific school of thought or philosophical tradition, though I find them pretty interesting. Most of themselves become stuck in semantic conundrums, though, tied down by the internal logic of whatever language they are using and never quite realising that they are already dealing with concepts and ideas they take for granted on account of language.

 

[Silmarien]

I know there are some highly intellectual theists who manage to carry the idea of divinity to more abstract, more sophisticated levels - but the way I see it, they are either making a HUGE effort to rationalise very simplistic ideas about the nature of the cosmos and try to make them appear more than they are, or they are veering so far off the classical concept of a "god" that they might just as well call themselves non-theists, because their deity is not really a person, and more like the benevolent principle behind reality as a whole.

How are we veering off the classical conception of God? We literally are the classical conception, if by "classical" we mean the type of ideas associated with Greek and medieval theology. It really doesn't get any more classical than the approach to theology that has roots in Plato and Aristotle.

We're not non-theists. Our God is not a person, except in an analogical sense, but we still understand him as being relational. There is a huge, huge difference between apophatic theology and non-theism, and we certainly don't need to abandon the word "theist" because people have largely forgotten that our way of thinking even exists.

I don't really follow any specific school of thought or philosophical tradition, though I find them pretty interesting. Most of themselves become stuck in semantic conundrums, though, tied down by the internal logic of whatever language they are using and never quite realising that they are already dealing with concepts and ideas they take for granted on account of language.

Deconstructionism is a particular school of philosophy.

 

[Zoness]

When I was young, as in ages 5 through 17, I was basically an emotionally confused kid who only had a small affinity for the most basic of ideas surrounding Jesus, and I was more or less an informal agnostic during that time, not knowing what was what in life or as to what to make of it all. My worldview back then was made up more of comic book morality and iconography, Carl Sagan Cosmology, and to some extent, sheer existential angst, than anything else.

One thing I've always had going for me, however, has been an ongoing desire to want to live in a world of social peace and beauty, along with a proclivity to ask questions. Between ages 17 and 22, both essential Christianity and my later, gradual taking up of Philosophy helped me to expand my view of the world beyond what I had previously been able to realize in my earlier years, and I've discovered and learned some interesting things about the world along the way every since then.

Beyond that, I can't say much more since now--much later in life--I try to be Christian rather than agnostic in my overall outlook. I will say that the field of Hermenuetics (as a sub-strand of Philosophy) has played part and parcel in my mode of analyzing and evaluating the world around me. It hasn't provided me with all of the answers I'd like to have or with any world shaking restoration to my personal dysfunctions, but as a mode of investigation, it has helped me to organize my thoughts about the world, about religion, and even come to understand why human emotions and perceptions, whether my own or those of other people, have been so screwy existentially and psychologically speaking...

Thanks for sharing your story, Philo. It sounds like a very raw and honest approach to the world. There are parts of it I can relate to quite well including "comic book morality and iconography, Carl Sagan Cosmology, and to some extent, sheer existential angst", to use your phrases (which I think are decent descriptors). Maybe I'd replace comic book with video game, and then we've replicated my young worldview pretty accurately. I also agree with you in my hopes for the world; of social peace and beauty, as well as freedom of inquiry.

I think trying to be Christian is a very sensible way of looking at the world, rather than simply proclaiming yourself IS something, static and without change and without error. I feel like I've always had an underpinning of Agnosticism but mixed with my Catholic upbringing and modern Pagan faith it comes out to be something really interesting and with a lot of depth of questions I really haven't critically explored.

Can ask what got you into Hermenuetics? What did that field appeal to you so much? I know some people are focused on and puzzled by say, Ethics which I have been in the past. Is there a text, experience, or an idea that you started with where you began to pursue this field?

 

[Zoness]

Theism simply ceased to make any sense to me once I had grown up, at least if we define deity as it is commonly understood, i.e. a supernatural person or persons who interfere with reality by numinous means and influence what's going on on this planet.
I know there are some highly intellectual theists who manage to carry the idea of divinity to more abstract, more sophisticated levels - but the way I see it, they are either making a HUGE effort to rationalise very simplistic ideas about the nature of the cosmos and try to make them appear more than they are, or they are veering so far off the classical concept of a "god" that they might just as well call themselves non-theists, because their deity is not really a person, and more like the benevolent principle behind reality as a whole.

I don't really follow any specific school of thought or philosophical tradition, though I find them pretty interesting. Most of themselves become stuck in semantic conundrums, though, tied down by the internal logic of whatever language they are using and never quite realising that they are already dealing with concepts and ideas they take for granted on account of language.

I agree with the "lost in their language" problem. I'm started a deep dive of the ancient Greeks but that seems like it happens a lot, and there's a lot of talking in circles. Or maybe I just don't get it! I'm not up to any sort of Enlightenment philosophy yet, but I intend to get there.

My concept of the divine has moved elsewhere too; really until I was an adult my cultural programming had me picturing a man in the sky but that just doesn't make sense, and I'm well aware its not what most monotheistic religions teach. I've been in that middle category too of Deist and even my own gods but sometimes I feel like I am doing a lot of my own rationalizing too, if I am being honest about it.

David Silverman, president of American Atheists said on the Cognitive Dissonance podcast "If you're pretty sure there's not a god, but you don't call yourself an atheist, you're an atheist". While I get what he's hinting at, there ARE a lot of connotations of being considered an Atheist and while I relate to Atheists quite well, I don't consider myself one. Especially as, in America, there seems to be a growing number of them who I do not relate to politically at all (re: Sargon of Akkad types). Maybe I am looking for a sort of Deistic Humanism or something. Or maybe I am splitting hairs.

To be clear, I find tremendous value and comfort in my pagan faith and don't see value in abandoning it but also I am sort of looking for groups of people to associate with online or in person of a slightly different mold, since my practice is solitary.

 

[MehGuy]

Hmmm.. not sure how to exactly answer this question. Since being an atheist I have tried to convert as much from my theistic life to my atheist one. I've certainly had major roadblocks along the way, but what I was able to achieve spiritually is just too good to pass up and let wither away and die. When I first became an atheist I realized that spiritual feelings are mostly just "emotions", since then I've upgraded my understanding of spiritual feelings to include the important "empathy" aspect. So emotional empathy.

I remember when I first became an atheist I found the Marquis De Sade interesting, a late 18th and early 19th century heavily atheistic and sadomasochistic philosopher. Someone who wasn't afraid to think way beyond his social conventions of his time. Although I think he was more of a curious showman/troll than anything too serious. Getting into real edge-lord territory right there, lol.

I have also been semi-heavily influenced with the feminist and anti-sjw battles that have been going on in the atheist community. Although I will have to say I was pretty anti-sjw before there ever was a term for it. Sadly I'm not sure how much of a framework I have right now. Severe depression and anxiety issues have left me in an almost comatose state these last few years. I'm not suicidal right now, but I will say I sometimes view life as meaningless/boring and wonder why I go on.