Non-mention in Scripture

[Carl Emerson]

I opened a thread on the Word of God but this issue arose which deserves a new thread...

Can we focus on the issue of non-mention in Scripture.

We use the scripture to weigh the validity of words and experiences claimed to be Godly.

But what about experiences that have no mention in scripture?

You will notice that the spirits of the prophets are to be subject to the prophets not the teachers.

This means that the truth or otherwise of utterances was to be spiritually discerned.

The problem with this is that our churches generally are not structured to do this.
The fellowship of the prophets that should serve the church in this way generally does not exist.

The foundation of unity needed for discernment gifts to operate has in most cases been replaced by top down management, so that 'the least', who may be carrying God's word of discernment, are not heard.

And here we are heading into a time of great deception without these key means to seperate the true from the false.

In most cases then we have spiritually blind churches susceptible to deception.

This is a serious issue with little mention or discussion at a time when we know false signs and wonders will increase and potentially deceive the very elect.

Those with a gift of prophesy should collectively have this key role in churches but in most cases we are in total ignorance of whats going down spiritually because the prophetic voice has been muted through ignorance or worse still silenced.

 

[Sketcher]

There absolutely needs to be a serious commitment to interpreting visions, prophesies, and tongues.

Unfortunately, charismatic believers that I have encountered which value these gifts have not valued Scripture and sound teaching from Scripture as much as the gifts, and that's dangerous.

That is the main driver of cessationism within the non-charismatic crowd. Cessationists of course, do not believe that any modern visions, prophesies, and tongues have the possibility of being legitimate.

So here we are. I had a dream which may have been prophetic and if so, may be in the process of being fulfilled before my eyes. But the state of the general church is such that I can't know that.

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm not sure what you are asking. I have moved in discerning of spirits, before. While there exists plenty of topics that are not mentioned in Scripture, they are seldom contiguous. That is, they are usually isolated from each other.

A proponent of such would either have to stay very localized or expose themselves (for good or bad) when traveling between them, by the Scriptural boundaries that they either cross or agree with.

Space aliens would be a good example of this. The Bible does not speak to them either way. But as soon as their proponents require telepathy, telekinesis, etc. in order to interact with them, the Enemy is clearly revealed in the matter.

 

[devin553344]

The problem with prophecy in church is that many are false prophets and just confuse the issue. So most churches refuse to hear prophecy. Probably a good policy.

 

[Messerve]

I opened a thread on the Word of God but this issue arose which deserves a new thread...

Can we focus on the issue of non-mention in Scripture.

We use the scripture to weigh the validity of words and experiences claimed to be Godly.

But what about experiences that have no mention in scripture?

You will notice that the spirits of the prophets are to be subject to the prophets not the teachers.

This means that the truth or otherwise of utterances was to be spiritually discerned.

The problem with this is that our churches generally are not structured to do this.
The fellowship of the prophets that should serve the church in this way generally does not exist.

The foundation of unity needed for discernment gifts to operate has in most cases been replaced by top down management, so that 'the least', who may be carrying God's word of discernment, are not heard.

And here we are heading into a time of great deception without these key means to seperate the true from the false.

In most cases then we have spiritually blind churches susceptible to deception.

This is a serious issue with little mention or discussion at a time when we know false signs and wonders will increase and potentially deceive the very elect.

Those with a gift of prophesy should collectively have this key role in churches but in most cases we are in total ignorance of whats going down spiritually because the prophetic voice has been muted through ignorance or worse still silenced.

Reading this post of yours.... It makes total sense. I wouldn't say my family necessarily has the gift of prophecy (it would be very unusual if we all did) but so often there is something troubling us spiritually about an important decision to be made in our church body and practically no one give it any attention.

We have found some camaraderie with a few of other individuals in the church who have shared that they had the same reservations and also were ignored. But whatever the case, we are all in the extreme minority...

If we were proven wrong that would be one thing... But almost without fail our reservations have proven to be correct while the rest are dumbfounded!

This lack of insight and spiritual discernment in so many other Christians is what leads me to think maybe it is more than just common sense and actually a gift.

When I took a spiritual gifts class, prophecy was I think the third highest as being likely to be my gift. Exhortation was my highest and is kind of similar...

 

[Tree of Life]

I opened a thread on the Word of God but this issue arose which deserves a new thread...

Can we focus on the issue of non-mention in Scripture.

We use the scripture to weigh the validity of words and experiences claimed to be Godly.

But what about experiences that have no mention in scripture?

You will notice that the spirits of the prophets are to be subject to the prophets not the teachers.

This means that the truth or otherwise of utterances was to be spiritually discerned.

The problem with this is that our churches generally are not structured to do this.
The fellowship of the prophets that should serve the church in this way generally does not exist.

The foundation of unity needed for discernment gifts to operate has in most cases been replaced by top down management, so that 'the least', who may be carrying God's word of discernment, are not heard.

And here we are heading into a time of great deception without these key means to seperate the true from the false.

In most cases then we have spiritually blind churches susceptible to deception.

This is a serious issue with little mention or discussion at a time when we know false signs and wonders will increase and potentially deceive the very elect.

Those with a gift of prophesy should collectively have this key role in churches but in most cases we are in total ignorance of whats going down spiritually because the prophetic voice has been muted through ignorance or worse still silenced.

Sounds to me like you're saying that the Scriptures are not sufficient for dealing with the complexities of modern life. What do you think are some things that we have to deal with today that the Bible is not sufficient to handle?

 

[com7fy8]

The foundation of unity needed for discernment gifts to operate has in most cases been replaced by top down management, so that 'the least', who may be carrying God's word of discernment, are not heard.

What do you think are some things that we have to deal with today that the Bible is not sufficient to handle?

yes, at least one example, please

 

[bèlla]

If we can’t agree regarding issues stated in the bible I don’t expect consensus on more complex subjects. That’s not how reason works.

To say that wisdom is lacking is an understatement. And given its absence, we must exercise prudence regarding the information we embrace.

 

[com7fy8]

Can we focus on the issue of non-mention in Scripture.

Sounds to me like you're saying that the Scriptures are not sufficient for dealing with the complexities of modern life.

How about if I am out in the real world and I don't have a prophet present to tell me what to do about a non-mentioned item?

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

In God's peace ruling me, we have His personal guiding of us according to all He knows is true and all He knows He is committed to doing.

"and you will find rest for your souls" > in Matthew 11:28-30 > so, in the case of if I am called to be a pastor or official other ministerial person > I can test if I am called, by how Jesus develops and matures and guides me in rest for my soul.

Plus, it can be good to have someone in the prophetic confirm what Jesus is proving within me. I would not go only by a prophesied say-so, but also test for if and how Jesus guides me in rest for our souls. And see how Jesus actually develops me, do not go only by say-so and take it into my own hands!!!!

So we need to test each prophecy to see if and how God actually has us doing it, including with His timing and His coordinating us with each other.

 

[Halbhh]

I opened a thread on the Word of God but this issue arose which deserves a new thread...

Can we focus on the issue of non-mention in Scripture.

We use the scripture to weigh the validity of words and experiences claimed to be Godly.

But what about experiences that have no mention in scripture?

You will notice that the spirits of the prophets are to be subject to the prophets not the teachers.

This means that the truth or otherwise of utterances was to be spiritually discerned.

The problem with this is that our churches generally are not structured to do this.
The fellowship of the prophets that should serve the church in this way generally does not exist.

The foundation of unity needed for discernment gifts to operate has in most cases been replaced by top down management, so that 'the least', who may be carrying God's word of discernment, are not heard.

And here we are heading into a time of great deception without these key means to seperate the true from the false.

In most cases then we have spiritually blind churches susceptible to deception.

This is a serious issue with little mention or discussion at a time when we know false signs and wonders will increase and potentially deceive the very elect.

Those with a gift of prophesy should collectively have this key role in churches but in most cases we are in total ignorance of whats going down spiritually because the prophetic voice has been muted through ignorance or worse still silenced.

Christ gave a specific indicator to watch for in the gospels, and there is also another in 1rst John.

 

[Messerve]

Christ gave a specific indicator to watch for in the gospels, and there is also another in 1rst John.

I found 1 John 1:4-6 ( I assume that's the passage you're referring to). Can you remind me where similar passages are found in the gospels?

 

[Carl Emerson]

There absolutely needs to be a serious commitment to interpreting visions, prophesies, and tongues.

Unfortunately, charismatic believers that I have encountered which value these gifts have not valued Scripture and sound teaching from Scripture as much as the gifts, and that's dangerous.

That is the main driver of cessationism within the non-charismatic crowd. Cessationists of course, do not believe that any modern visions, prophesies, and tongues have the possibility of being legitimate.

So here we are. I had a dream which may have been prophetic and if so, may be in the process of being fulfilled before my eyes. But the state of the general church is such that I can't know that.

Yes... I had an accurate vision regarding the war in Serbia 6 months before it happened, but I didn't know what to do with it... and there was no christian group that I knew of that might benefit from it accept the Slavic Gospel Mission.

 

[Messerve]

How about if I am out in the real world and I don't have a prophet present to tell me what to do about a non-mentioned item?

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

In God's peace ruling me, we have His personal guiding of us according to all He knows is true and all He knows He is committed to doing.

"and you will find rest for your souls" > in Matthew 11:28-30 > so, in the case of if I am called to be a pastor or official other ministerial person > I can test if I am called, by how Jesus develops and matures and guides me in rest for my soul.

Plus, it can be good to have someone in the prophetic confirm what Jesus is proving within me. I would not go only by a prophesied say-so, but also test for if and how Jesus guides me in rest for our souls. And see how Jesus actually develops me, do not go only by say-so and take it into my own hands!!!!

So we need to test each prophecy to see if and how God actually has us doing it, including with His timing and His coordinating us with each other.

The problem is we are so affected by the way the world thinks - science proves everything and what isn't observable in the physical world is just imaginary and nonsense and fear and old-fashioned thinking. Christians can't afford to think that way, because everything about our faith contradicts that notion. A large part of following God means making decisions based on our best judgment of what it seems He is telling us. As fallible human beings, it's scary. But as fallible human beings claimed by an infallible God, it really shouldn't be. When you take that step of faith, you see God at work most clearly.

I think this is one reason why, in more of a group situation, people who do test the spirits and raise concerns based on what it seems God has revealed to them are so quickly dismissed. They aren't the ones who have visited a hundred churches taking statistics on what works and what doesn't. And they haven't pastored ten different churches in ten different states. They're not even bilingual in Spanish! All they have is a gut feeling, peace or a lack of it, which they claim is from God.

When did Christianity lose it's faith??

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

 

[Messerve]

Yes... I had an accurate vision regarding the war in Serbia 6 months before it happened, but I didn't know what to do with it... and there was no christian group that I knew of that might benefit from it accept the Slavic Gospel Mission.

Fascinating!

Just as ISIS was forming I felt the need to snoop on Middle Eastern Twitter accounts out of concern for the Christians over there. I had never heard of ISIS and it wasn't in the news yet, but I thought about creating a feed of social media accounts with possible ties to terrorism as a tool for Christians in hostile countries.

I made a list of the users I considered most dangerous and at one point considered reporting it to the government or something, but really didn't know where to begin to do that... Then ISIS became news and it didn't really matter any more.

 

[Greengardener]

Interesting, Carl. It may be that I am missing the point, and if so, please feel free to correct me. One would think that two things are really important. First would be a grounding in the Scriptures so that one is clear on the intent of God so that one isn't easily deceived with any other given message. Secondly, one would need to be clear on what God is saying and what one should do with it. In the case of the war you mentioned, would it have been just to give you confidence that nothing surprises God? Still, you were right as far as I see, to take a look to see what might be needed.

I've learned not to be hesitant to test these things. They can stand the test. Deception is so easy and we've been warned that it's going to continue to be easy.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Sounds to me like you're saying that the Scriptures are not sufficient for dealing with the complexities of modern life. What do you think are some things that we have to deal with today that the Bible is not sufficient to handle?

OK, the last church I attended I fully participated, and loved many aspects of it, especially the music.

As time went on something caused me to feel very uneasy to the point of being close to weeping in the services.

Then the Lord revealed to me that the Pastors son was sleeping with one of the ladies in the church, and the whole church was as a result, unsafe. I prayed over that for 12 months seeking wisdom and finally delivered the word in writing to the Pastor. My word was rejected so the whole family left... A few months later the truth came out. I since learned that others had received the same word.

The church shrunk from 150 to 15 in line with what I saw in the vision.

This is an example of an appalling lack of discernment and the failure of the top down authority structure that doesn't allow for the least to be heard.

This is reasonably common problem and has been mentioned on the forum before.

So the bible will tell us about the issues we will encounter but we need His living Word to know who and when.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The problem with prophecy in church is that many are false prophets and just confuse the issue. So most churches refuse to hear prophecy. Probably a good policy.

Pardon my saying but I consider this a complete cop-out. there is plenty of guidelines in scripture for us to have a healthy prophetic voice operating in churches but the present structures in the main do not allow for it and we are left without an ear to what is going on spiritually.

 

[devin553344]

Pardon my saying but I consider this a complete cop-out. there is plenty of guidelines in scripture for us to have a healthy prophetic voice operating in churches but the present structures in the main do not allow for it and we are left without an ear to what is going on spiritually.

Yes it is a cop out.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Interesting, Carl. It may be that I am missing the point, and if so, please feel free to correct me. One would think that two things are really important. First would be a grounding in the Scriptures so that one is clear on the intent of God so that one isn't easily deceived with any other given message. Secondly, one would need to be clear on what God is saying and what one should do with it. In the case of the war you mentioned, would it have been just to give you confidence that nothing surprises God? Still, you were right as far as I see, to take a look to see what might be needed.

I've learned not to be hesitant to test these things. They can stand the test. Deception is so easy and we've been warned that it's going to continue to be easy.

Yes exactly, and it would be a lot easier to test such things if we had a 'fellowship of the prophets' to bounce things off.

 

[devin553344]

Yes exactly, and it would be a lot easier to test such things if we had a 'fellowship of the prophets' to bounce things off.

I've received prophecy before from angels and God. Those things that came true I attribute to God. But I have also had tons of false prophecies with no way to tell if they are false or not. Basically natural and man made disasters and such. Or no time given on when it will happen sometimes. If I told people my prophetic messages there would be true mixed with false. Which is why I usually wait for them to happen and keep them to myself.