Non Expedit

[Gnarwhal]

Could the Pope expand the restrictions of the Non Expedit to other nations? So far in history its only precedent is when it was used to tell Italians to boycott the polls in the 19th century.

I don't think Francis would do this but if another Pope were reigning and with the recent news here in the US that the Republican party has removed the pro-life position and traditional marriage from its platform, could a Pope issue Non Expedit? That could be crippling even though I would guess probably 2/3 of American Catholics would either ignore it or not understand it.

 

[Offline4Better.]

Could the Pope expand the restrictions of the Non Expedit to other nations? So far in history its only precedent is when it was used to tell Italians to boycott the polls in the 19th century.

I don't think Francis would do this but if another Pope were reigning and with the recent news here in the US that the Republican party has removed the pro-life position and traditional marriage from its platform, could a Pope issue Non Expedit? That could be crippling even though I would guess probably 2/3 of American Catholics would either ignore it or not understand it.

Let me plug this into my AI. It is connected to the Catechism, a Catholic Bible, and Church history.

 

[RileyG]

I guess it can happen.

 

[Offline4Better.]

Alright, here is what it had to say:


The "Non Expedit" (It is not expedient) was a papal decree issued by Pope Pius IX in the mid-19th century, urging Italian Catholics to abstain from participating in political elections due to concerns about their safety and religious freedom. The use of such a decree has been rare throughout Church history.

The power for infallibility lies with the Pope when he speaks on matters of faith or morals through himself alone or together with bishops united in general council (Catholic Catechism, Q18-Q19). In this context, a Pope may issue Non Expedit to guide Catholics on political and moral issues. However, it is important to note that the implementation and reception of such decree can vary greatly among Catholic communities in different nations.

Regarding your question about whether another Pope could extend the restrictions of the "Non Expedit" to other nations, it's theoretically possible but highly unlikely due to its historical rarity and the complexity involved with addressing political situations in diverse countries. Additionally, as you mentioned, compliance might differ among Catholic communities worldwide.

Lastly, while American Catholics are known for their strong faith and commitment to the Church, not every individual may understand or comply with a decree like "Non Expedit," especially if it pertains to political issues that may be controversial or unfamiliar within the community.

Sources:

https://fatima.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bt054_catholic_catechism.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/000-Years-Christs-Power-Vol/dp/1781917787

 

[Michie]

Could the Pope expand the restrictions of the Non Expedit to other nations? So far in history its only precedent is when it was used to tell Italians to boycott the polls in the 19th century.

I don't think Francis would do this but if another Pope were reigning and with the recent news here in the US that the Republican party has removed the pro-life position and traditional marriage from its platform, could a Pope issue Non Expedit? That could be crippling even though I would guess probably 2/3 of American Catholics would either ignore it or not understand it.

Interesting question. @chevyontheriver? @fide? @boughtwithaprice?

 

[Offline4Better.]

Ooh, seems like a competition is here. Will @chevyontheriver and @fide outsmart the AI on my laptop? The answer is most likely yes, but I am just messing with you guys.


This is what the AI looks like, for any fellow Catholic tech nerds.

 

[Paidiske]

It's an interesting concept. Would the thinking about it be different in countries where voting is compulsory?

 

[Michie]

It's an interesting concept. Would the thinking about it be different in countries where voting is compulsory?

That’s what I was wondering. Americans can opt out although I do not think recommended.

 

[Offline4Better.]

It's an interesting concept. Would the thinking about it be different in countries where voting is compulsory?

One could write in Jesus Christ or Bugs Bunny on the ballot.

 

[Michie]

One could write in Jesus Christ or Bugs Bunny on the ballot.

That’s really an exercise in futility and only adds to monopoly the 2 major parties have unfortunately.

 

[Paidiske]

One could write in Jesus Christ or Bugs Bunny on the ballot.

Not in our system, you couldn't. And voting is compulsory here, which is what prompted the question.

 

[Offline4Better.]

Not in our system, you couldn't. And voting is compulsory here, which is what prompted the question.

Wow, that sounds a little harsh that Australia forces folks to only pick candidates, and not write in other choices.

 

[Offline4Better.]

That’s really an exercise in futility and only adds to monopoly the 2 major parties have unfortunately.

Agreed. That is the sad part. Maybe, voting for a 3rd party such as the Solidarity party could help. I might do that in 2028.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Could the Pope expand the restrictions of the Non Expedit to other nations? So far in history its only precedent is when it was used to tell Italians to boycott the polls in the 19th century.

I don't think Francis would do this but if another Pope were reigning and with the recent news here in the US that the Republican party has removed the pro-life position and traditional marriage from its platform, could a Pope issue Non Expedit? That could be crippling even though I would guess probably 2/3 of American Catholics would either ignore it or not understand it.

I never heard of this.

The Republican party is, surprise, not really our friend. They played their Catholic card and we voted for them. Now though, they think that being pro-life and for traditional marriage might cost them votes. Well, they didn't have a firm lock on me anyway.

Could the pope actually say we shouldn't vote? I don't see that happening under this pope and I doubt it would be at all likely in this country unless there was a revolution and a very different form of government. Basically, if the Democrats are bad (they are) and the Republicans are bad (they are too, less bad up to recently) there are still OK alternatives. Just voting does not compromise us. Voting for Democrats and Republicans compromises us. So we can vote for someone else.

I guess a pope COULD do it. I think most Catholics would continue to vote for Democrats or Republicans as most of us are just stuck in those molds.

Detrich Von Hildebrand tried hard before Hitler won the elections in Germany to get people out of the rut of voting Communist to stop the National Socialists or National Socialist to stop the Communists. They were stuck in those molds. I see us in a very similar situation now. I don't see any way out. Why can't we all just become unglued from our party affiliations?

 

[Gnarwhal]

Detrich Von Hildebrand tried hard before Hitler won the elections in Germany to get people out of the rut of voting Communist to stop the National Socialists or National Socialist to stop the Communists. They were stuck in those molds. I see us in a very similar situation now. I don't see any way out. Why can't we all just become unglued from our party affiliations?

That’s a chilling observation. This platform change has upset me quite a bit, I think they’ve burned that bridge this time. I may finally join your ASP. If only a national call for Catholics to do some in some organized fashion, that could probably add maybe 10 million (out of 70) to their roster.

 

[Offline4Better.]

I never heard of this.

The Republican party is, surprise, not really our friend. They played their Catholic card and we voted for them. Now though, they think that being pro-life and for traditional marriage might cost them votes. Well, they didn't have a firm lock on me anyway.

Could the pope actually say we shouldn't vote? I don't see that happening under this pope and I doubt it would be at all likely in this country unless there was a revolution and a very different form of government. Basically, if the Democrats are bad (they are) and the Republicans are bad (they are too, less bad up to recently) there are still OK alternatives. Just voting does not compromise us. Voting for Democrats and Republicans compromises us. So we can vote for someone else.

I guess a pope COULD do it. I think most Catholics would continue to vote for Democrats or Republicans as most of us are just stuck in those molds.

Detrich Von Hildebrand tried hard before Hitler won the elections in Germany to get people out of the rut of voting Communist to stop the National Socialists or National Socialist to stop the Communists. They were stuck in those molds. I see us in a very similar situation now. I don't see any way out. Why can't we all just become unglued from our party affiliations?

God bless you brother. We need more folks who can see that both parties have major flaws. The American Solidarity Party sounds like a great alternative, or at least better compared to the Democrats and Republicans.

 

[chevyontheriver]

God bless you brother. We need more folks who can see that both parties have major flaws. The American Solidarity Party sounds like a great alternative, or at least better compared to the Democrats and Republicans.

Better, but they seem to have trouble launching. This IS the year for them to launch.

 

[Offline4Better.]

Better, but they seem to have trouble launching. This IS the year for them to launch.

I know that the 2020s decade is the time for the ASP to launch. We need to tell as many people about the American Solidarity party between now and November. We got to have this 3rd party as soon as possible.

 

[chevyontheriver]

That’s a chilling observation. This platform change has upset me quite a bit, I think they’ve burned that bridge this time. I may finally join your ASP. If only a national call for Catholics to do some in some organized fashion, that could probably add maybe 10 million (out of 70) to their roster.

I think the platform change just shows how faithful Catholics and Republicans are two different things. Used to be we thought faithful Catholics and Democrats were the same. Catholics were like Democrats at prayer. Boy is THAT ancient history. So we started, some of us anyhow, jumping ship to the Republicans. It kind of made sense. It was (sort of) good while it lasted. But I think it's over now. Faithful Catholics need to de-link from the Republicans because they are de-linking from us. They would rather be popular on the pelvic issues. I'm not going Christian Nationalism but it's time for a new party or two or three that have a platform faithful Catholic Christians can get behind (for at least a few years). I think we have to be ready to dump them if they don't hold true to a positive platform just as I think we should dump the Republicans now and we should have dumped the Democrats a few decades ago. It's time.

I'm putting out a national call to do so. The bishops have tried (many of them anyway) to be politically neutral. More than a few bishops wear their Democratic Party credentials on their sleeves. A rare one wears Republican Party credentials on his sleeve, and he is without a diocese right now. They aren't going to all of a sudden endorse a new party. Nor do I really think they should. They should teach the principles. I don't think the pope should be picking parties either. But we should. It's time for a wholesale abandonment of the Biden/Harris woke party with the tired old Joe. Or even without tired old Joe. And for the wholesale abandonment of the Trump stream of consciousness narcissist party. We need only 34% of Democrats and 34% of Republicans to switch to the ASP and probably that means writing their names in. THAT would be victory. THAT would begin draining the swamp.

If we don't, I can pretty much guarantee, not that I want it at all, shootings and bombings and arson all over this country if Trump wins so that it will look like Northern Ireland or maybe Beirut. That or China takes Taiwan and Russia takes back chunks of Europe if Joe wins. Or nuclear rain. Or maybe some combination. It's not going to be pretty.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I know that the 2020s decade is the time for the ASP to launch. We need to tell as many people about the American Solidarity party between now and November. We got to have this 3rd party as soon as possible.

Getting them on the ballot is the hard thing right now. In 2016 I worked to get Evan McMullen on the ballot in Minnesota. It was long hours of getting petitions signed but we did it. And he got a couple percent of the vote from people who were unimpressed with Hillary and The Donald. Things have matured a bit since then. By the way McMullen had the slimmest of chances to win if only he could win Utah (he was Mormon) and then the other two didn't get the 270 electoral votes. This would throw it to the states, which could pick from the three electoral vote getters. But alas he did not win Utah and Trump had more than 270 electoral votes.

Back to before I distracted myself. The need right now is local grass-roots. The two big parties have done their part in giving us a senile guy and a convicted felon. Both are eminently dumpable. It's just ASP name recognition is less than 1%. Who has even heard of Peter Sonski?