Non-denominational view of how to get to heaven.

[Albion]

No. The Catholic Church claims the largest number of adherents. Nobody except God knows how many actual members the Catholic Church actually has.

It's difficult to guage any denomination since each keeps its own records, but we know that some count members in a way that exaggerates their totals. I don't mean that they intentionally inflate the statistics for propaganda purposes, but that their history and theology just use different approaches to the subject. For instance, most Protestant churches only count voting members, not even unbaptised children and adolescents. The Orthodox Eastern churches tend to count all members of their ethnic group, which is why you'll notice that some of these seem to have exactly three million members or something like that.

The Catholic Church counts all who have been baptised in one of their churches unless they've formally resigned, which most converts to other Christian denominations do not bother to do. Plenty of people are counted by more than one church, if they only knew!

 

[bbbbbbb]

It's difficult to guage any denomination since each keeps its own records, but we know that some count members in a way that exaggerates their totals. I don't mean that they intentionally inflate the statistics for propaganda purposes, but that their history and theology just use different approaches to the subject. For instance, most Protestant churches only count voting members, not even unbaptised children and adolescents. The Orthodox Eastern churches tend to count all members of their ethnic group, which is why you'll notice that some of these seem to have exactly three million members or something like that.

The Catholic Church counts all who have been baptised in one of their churches unless they've formally resigned, which most converts to other Christian denominations do not bother to do. Plenty of people are counted by more than one church, if they only knew!

Yes, this is very true. I have several friends who were formerly Catholic who are still counted by the Catholic Church as members because they did not formally resign. In some Protestant denominations the churches are required to remit a specified amount of money annually to the denominational headquarters based upon church membership. This provides some incentive to keep the membership rolls clean and free of dead wood.

 

[wordsoflife]

This is taken from the Lutheran section of CF:

How to identify the true Christian Church on earth.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7700822/

Where the word is preached to sinners and the sacraments are given, that is the church on earth.

That being said I have never found a non-denominational Church that rightly preaches the gospel and administers the sacraments.

 

[Albion]

This is taken from the Lutheran section of CF:

How to identify the true Christian Church on earth.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7700822/

Where the word is preached to sinners and the sacraments are given, that is the church on earth.

That being said I have never found a non-denominational Church that rightly preaches the gospel and administers the sacraments.

Of course that depends on them having the Lutheran view of the Gospel and the Sacraments, doesn't it?

 

[wordsoflife]

Of course that depends on them having the Lutheran view of the Gospel and the Sacraments, doesn't it?

I don't think so. I don't view it as a "Lutheran view". I view it as a "scriptural view". What does scripture say that is what matters. The gospel is the gospel and the sacraments are the sacraments. I am actually a confirmed Catholic so I tend to lean toward the Catholic interpretation of the gospel and the sacraments. The Lutheran Church is very much in keeping with the Catholic Church on these things. Most non-denominational churches do not administer the sacraments similar to the Holy Catholic Church.

 

[Albion]

I don't think so. I don't view it as a "Lutheran view". I view it as a "scriptural view". What does scripture say that is what matters. The gospel is the gospel and the sacraments are the sacraments. I am actually a confirmed Catholic so I tend to lean toward the Catholic interpretation of the gospel and the sacraments. The Lutheran Church is very much in keeping with the Catholic Church on these things. Most non-denominational churches do not administer the sacraments similar to the Holy Catholic Church.

OK, let me be sure I understand you. You do NOT confine 'Where the word is preached to sinners and the sacraments are given' to churches that believe as the Smaller Catechism describes both of those. Which other churches would have rightly administered sacraments and the proper preaching of the Gospel, then?

 

[wordsoflife]

OK, let me be sure I understand you. You do NOT confine 'Where the word is preached to sinners and the sacraments are given' to churches that believe as the Smaller Catechism describes both of those. Which other churches would have rightly administered sacraments and the proper preaching of the Gospel, then?

The Holy Catholic Church as I stated.

I have never tried an "Anglican" church so I can not judge. However, I have attended many "nondenominational churches" and they do not correctly administer the sacraments, especially the Eucharist.

 

[Albion]

The Holy Catholic Church as I stated.

I have never tried an "Anglican" church so I can not judge. However, I have attended many "nondenominational churches" and they do not correctly administer the sacraments, especially the Eucharist.

OK, I think I get your thinking. And it's true that most non-denominational churches are barely distinguishable from a Baptist or Pentecostal congregation. While there may be non-denominational churches that are more like a Lutheran or Anglican or Greek Orthodox church, I've never encountered one and doubt that there are more than a handful anywhere.

 

[bbbbbbb]

OK, I think I get your thinking. And it's true that most non-denominational churches are barely distinguishable from a Baptist or Pentecostal congregation. While there may be non-denominational churches that are more like a Lutheran or Anglican or Greek Orthodox church, I've never encountered one and doubt that there are more than a handful anywhere.

IOW, unless a church has a formal liturgy (and the right liturgy, to boot) then it is not a TRUE Church.

 

[wordsoflife]

IOW, unless a church has a formal liturgy (and the right liturgy, to boot) then it is not a TRUE Church.

I was not speaking of liturgy I was speaking of partaking of the Eucharist correctly. Did you know that in the Catholic Church you can partake of the Mass not only weekly but daily? The Catholic church near my home has Mass every morning at 8:00 a.m. and this is standard for the Catholic Church. The Eucharist is also viewed as the physical body and blood of our Lord. So, this is quite different from how non-denominational churches are operated.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I was not speaking of liturgy I was speaking of partaking of the Eucharist correctly. Did you know that in the Catholic Church you can partake of the Mass not only weekly but daily? The Catholic church near my home has Mass every morning at 8:00 a.m. and this is standard for the Catholic Church. The Eucharist is also viewed as the physical body and blood of our Lord. So, this is quite different from how non-denominational churches are operated.

Of course I know about daily mass at Catholic churches. You hold to a sacramental theology and view it as the one and only correct theology. Most non-denominational churches share a non-sacramental, Zwinglian theology which they firmly believe to be biblical.

BTW, you know as well as everyone else in the world that the Catholic eucharist does not transform bread into physical flesh and wine into physical blood. The Catholic eucharist may be viewed as partaking of "actual" flesh and blood, but it is definitely not physical flesh and blood.

 

[wordsoflife]

The Catholic eucharist may be viewed as partaking of "actual" flesh and blood, but it is definitely not physical flesh and blood.

What is the difference. It seems like you are splitting hairs here. I am Lutheran and we say that it is the true body and blood of Christ. Catholics view the sacrament in a similar way, actual, physical, and true body and blood of Christ. I was confirmed a Catholic at one time so I know this to be true.

 

[wordsoflife]

Most non-denominational churches share a non-sacramental, Zwinglian theology which they firmly believe to be biblical.

Yes, and this I disagree with.

 

[cyaprakashnagar]

I feel like I have finally figured out what I believe it takes to get to heaven and I was wandering what others think. John 3:16 states that for God so loved the world that He gave his only son that who soever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life. This verse is often used to tell people how to be saved, but I have come to believe that this is more of a summary.

It is not if you believe in him, it is if you daily deny yourself pick up your cross and follow him. And the denying yourself, picking up your cross, and following him could be expanded into an unending exhaustive detail about daily trials and tribulations dealing with sin etc.

Is that pretty much the non-denominational view?

Well said, if you are not going join the Church, then how you worship God and the Christ ? Pl Lets see the word and then read it and will come to a point to join the Church of Christ who died for us and resurrected from the Tomb to give us the salvation .
Pl do this ,,
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,that God hath made the same Jesus whom ye have crucified both Lord and Christ.Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men andbrethren, what shall we do?Then Peter said unto them,Repent,and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.For the promise is unto you, and to your children,and to all that are afar off,even as many as the LORD our God shall call.And with many other words did he testify and exhort,saying, Saveyourselves from this untoward generation.Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

 

[bbbbbbb]

What is the difference. It seems like you are splitting hairs here. I am Lutheran and we say that it is the true body and blood of Christ. Catholics view the sacrament in a similar way, actual, physical, and true body and blood of Christ. I was confirmed a Catholic at one time so I know this to be true.

The difference is not at all obvious to those who have been told that the priest says the magic words and presto-bingo the bread becomes human flesh and the wine becomes human blood.

However, it can be readily proven that there is not a moledule of human DNA in the bread after consecration nor is there a molecule of human hemoglobin in the wine after its consecration. Thus, the bread is not physically transformed into human flesh nor does the wine become human blood.

Catholics argue until they are blue in the face that the bread does become the "actual" body of Christ and the wine becomes the "actual" blood of Christ, but the reality is that in a genuine, physical sense, they do not. They may in some metaphysical sense, but that passes into the realm of faith, not physics.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes, and this I disagree with.

You assuredly have every right to disagree with other interpretations of the Bible as I have the same right to disagree with yours. God will determine what is His truth in His time, I am sure.

 

[wordsoflife]

Catholics argue until they are blue in the face that the bread does become the "actual" body of Christ and the wine becomes the "actual" blood of Christ, but the reality is that in a genuine, physical sense, they do not. They may in some metaphysical sense, but that passes into the realm of faith, not physics.

So, what you were originally saying was not that Catholics don't view the Eucharist as the physical body and blood of Christ but that you don't.

 

[bbbbbbb]

So, what you were originally saying was not that Catholics don't view the Eucharist as the physical body and blood of Christ but that you don't.

No, the Catholic Church does not believe that in the Eucharist the bread becomes physical flesh and the wine becomes physical blood. it teaches that it becomes the "actual" flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. In fact, I challenge you to show me any portion of the Catechism of the Catholic Church that states unequivocably that the bread becomes verifiable physical flesh and the wine becomes verifiable physical blood.

The closest statement I can find is this -

1378 Worship of the Eucharist. In the liturgy of the Mass we express our faith in the real presence of Christ under the species of bread and wine by, among other ways, genuflecting or bowing deeply as a sign of adoration of the Lord. "The Catholic Church has always offered and still offers to the sacrament of the Eucharist the cult of adoration, not only during Mass, but also outside of it, reserving the consecrated hosts with the utmost care, exposing them to the solemn veneration of the faithful, and carrying them in procession."

The bolded section represents Catholic teaching on the matter. When it speaks of the "species of bread and wine" it meaans that Christ dwells in the consecrated bread and wine, not that the bread and wine become Christ.

 

[Albion]

What is the difference. It seems like you are splitting hairs here. I am Lutheran and we say that it is the true body and blood of Christ. Catholics view the sacrament in a similar way, actual, physical, and true body and blood of Christ. I was confirmed a Catholic at one time so I know this to be true.

Yes, but no one could tell that you know the difference between the Lutheran and the Catholic POV from the way you've described them.

 

[Albion]

No, the Catholic Church does not believe that in the Eucharist the bread becomes physical flesh and the wine becomes physical blood.

Actually, it does.