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Eudaimonist said:
So your belief there should be no reward for bad behaviour. How do you measure bad behaviour?
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Eudaimonist said:Sure, why reward bad behavior? There are other charities that you could give to, if that is what you want to do.
No, and yes.
eudaimonia,
Mark
So your belief there should be no reward for bad behaviour. How do you measure bad behaviour?
Eudaimonist said:Since I could have been in the same situation, here's my reply...
Being an unbeliever doesn't mean that one doesn't have a moral compass. It would bother me to lie in many circumstances not only because of the lesson of the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf (ponder that), but also because I value my character, which I see as necessary to my personal flourishing and happiness, and because I understand intellectually and emotionally that other people are just as much persons as I am with their own dreams and well-being to pursue. This is natural for any reasonably aware individual.
You're right. I don't care about "sin", because "sin" is defined as something along the lines of disobedience to God or missing the target God sets for us. I'm a "true unbeliever" -- someone for whom disobedience to God is as meaningful as disobedience to Odin -- and so I don't care about "sin".
However, I do care about vice. Vice is a kind of clumbsiness at living life. The good values that I manage to get from life depend on wisdom and virtue.
I'm a human being. I don't need to be told to care. Do you?
So why is it not OK for that man to pursue, is he less of a person? his pursuit of your happiness at the same time of collecting donations, somehow has changed your initial thoughts of "their own dreams and well-being to pursue".
That's what I don't understand either. Why is the OPs unbelief or past belief have any bearing on the decision of lying to someone, based on their belief that she was worthy of being shown how to believe. Why is it a cause for justification by peers if there is no belief?
Eyes wide Open said:I don't follow your line of reasoning, unless of course I'm missing something. The OP was presented with an uncomfortable situation by virtue of being 'hassled' by somebody collecting donations for a charity. The op's belief or non belief is irrelevant to the collector. I don't see the lie thing as being set in stone like you do, (perhaps) I mean the op's intention could have been to not make the collector feel uncomfortable, but at the same time the OP didn't 'feel' like donating anymore, which is why my initial words were not to dwell on it and go with the flow, which is what they did.
The collector is 'responsible' in that situation to collect donations and the OP was happy to do that despite their tight financial situation. I see this as a credit to their outlook and also I see their non donation as a credit to their self respect. The OP knew dam well that the collector was out of line, that was the 'vibe' that came across and the OP reacted accordingly. Yes they may feel that they still should of given despite this, or that they could have verbalised the situation differently to the collector, but that's their call.
So really her credibility is what she is seeking from her peers? She requires her peers to let her know her choices have no bearing on her credibility, and that she has actually gained credibility by her choices.
Would you have given to the seemingly noble charity, even if the person representing them was trying to convert you? Would it have put you off too?
Völuspá;62901725 said:I had a bit of an ethical dilemma over the weekend. I don't have anything wrong with what I did, but I'm curious what others would have done.
So I was coming out of Wal-Mart (bigger ethical dilemma? lol I didn't buy anything!) and this guy asks me if I want to donate to his charity. It was a Christian ministry that helps people get off of drugs and lead a clean life. Even though religion isn't my "thing" I can see how that would help a lot of people, so I proceeded to take out whatever cash I had.
Then he starts asking me if I'm a Christian, to which I said I used to be... Then he launches into some talk about how I'm in luck and can convert back again today, then hands me a standard tract. I was suddenly put off by the whole thing, and really didn't agree with what he was trying to do. I told him that I'd be back later (a lie, but I'm terrible at getting out of weird social situations) because I didn't have a lot of money. He asked me why I changed my mind, because I was about to give. I could have just said he was putting me off, but I really just wanted to get out of there. So I said that I really needed to pay off some bills first (this is a tacky thing to say, but it's totally true. I'm a starving college student and every little bit helps me.) He finally let me go and I went on my way.
Even though the charity was to help other people, I just couldn't bring myself to give to someone who was proselytizing to me. I felt it was disrespectful as I'm quite happy as a nonbeliever. I still believe in the cause, but maybe I could research other charities when I'm in a better place to give. I know I can do whatever I want with my money, but...
Would you have given to the seemingly noble charity, even if the person representing them was trying to convert you?Would it have put you off too?
Both begging and giving to beggars are explicitly forbidden in the Baha'i Faith.
So really her credibility is what she is seeking from her peers? She requires her peers to let her know her choices have no bearing on her credibility, and that she has actually gained credibility by her choices.
I only donate to charities that I know have an established, transparent financial record and a mission I agree with.
Völuspá;62901725 said:Would you have given to the seemingly noble charity, even if the person representing them was trying to convert you?Would it have put you off too?
This.
It's already a given that the mission be one that I support, but unfortunately so many lack transparent financial records (and I have across a charity that used to use part of the donations for first class tickets, suites in 5-star hotels, etc. for the events related to charity).
You mentioned you lied. But at the same time you enjoy being a unbeliever. Why would it bother you to lie? Also, why are you so put off by not giving. If your so happy without believing in anything, why would anyone care wether you thought you believed in something before? It's very confusing, most true unbelievers could care less about sin, but you go asking people for justification of your wrong doing. Are you still a Christian and your faking your unbelief? If you were truly a believer ever then how is it you think your not now?
just trying to understand, why you care at all?
I tend to not give to Christian charities though there is a local Catholic Church who feeds the homeless that I'll donate to. The reason why I don't give to most Christian charities is because they do have a proselytizing agenda attached to their programs. The Catholic Church that I give to doesn't. They truly want to help those in need. Helping those in need IS their agenda.Völuspá;62901725 said:Would you have given to the seemingly noble charity, even if the person representing them was trying to convert you?Would it have put you off too?
Mythunderstood said:Just out of curiosity, would you ask this question of someone who is Hindu?
dlamberth said:I tend to not give to Christian charities though there is a local Catholic Church who feeds the homeless that I'll donate to. The reason why I don't give to most Christian charities is because they do have a proselytizing agenda attached to their programs. The Catholic Church that I give to doesn't. They truly want to help those in need. Helping those in need IS their agenda.
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