Non-Christian reading the bible for the 1st time and have a question about Genesis

[Johnathan_D_Hill]

Disclaimer: Although I claim no one particular religious affiliation at the moment I do hold the belief that there is a Supreme Being/Entity which is the source of everything. I'm currently on a quest to understand this Being as much as humanly possible and thus I'm here at a Christian forum. I will try to word my questions and responses carefully as I am not trying to debate rather Christianity is accurate or false, I'm seeking information.

my following question relates to Genesis and covers the following things;

• 2 Creator Beings
• 2 Creations
• 2 types of Man being created

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
​

Clearly in the above 2 passages it's explicit to me what was executed;

• God - talking to others like him or of his caliber gives the command or instructions of creation Man in their likeness and image.
• God - (not the others who he was speaking with) created Man
• God - gave man dominion over Fish of the sea, Fowl of the air, Cattle, the Earth and everything that creeps upon the Earth
• God - created this man in his own image.
• God - created both Male and Female

Now, where I begin to lack understanding is after Genesis 2:3 when God blesses the seventh day and sanctifies it as in the very next passage of 2:4 a new being is introduce without 'proper introduction' named 'LORD God'.

Genesis 2:3

And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.​

Genesis 2:4

These are the generations of the heavens and the of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.​

Now the reason why I take it that the being 'God' and the being 'LORD God' are different is for the following reasons;

1. The word in the KJV "LORD" is capitalized and precedes the previous title of "God" (written in non-capitalized letters except the first).
2. When 'LORD God' comes into the bible, Man and animals and plants have not been created (although they were created in Genesis 1 under the being "God")

Genesis 2:5

And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.​

With Genesis 2:5 compared to Genesis 1:26-1:27 it says to me the the following;

• LORD God comes into the creation story after God
• LORD God and God are two different beings with two different scopes of power (will expand upon this further down)
• LORD God and God are creating in two different realms of existence

I also seem to pick up that Man was fashioned in 2 different manners being the two beings;

God in Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the seas, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

God in Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.​

God in Genesis 1:28

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.​

LORD God in Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

LORD God in Genesis 2:8

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
​

The 5 above passages says to me that there are 2 types of Man;
One created in the image of God by God and One formed (without any indication as to which image it has taken) by LORD God.

Also the Man created by God in Genesis 1 seems to be already alive/living after the very act of creation and if I'm reading the insinuation correction this form of man (created by God) was created in the same material as God. While man created by LORD God is not said to be made in the image of LORD God and further more is created from;

• Dust of the ground
• Having the Breath of Life breathed into it's nostrils to become a 'living soul'

====
As a non-Christian I am not able to post this in the other sub-forums (and I understand and respect that decision) so I'm asking here for some clarity and understanding of the seemingly 2 different entities and their methods of creation. Again, I am not looking to prove or disprove Christianity - for all intends and purposes I believe all religions hold truth and I'm just attempting to understand the truth of the Bible currently so my questions above may seem skeptical but they are more inquisitive than anything.

Thanks for reading, hopefully my questions makes sense.

 

[GallagherM]

Hello Johnathan,

First of all do not believe me, think for yourself friend,

You ask some great questions.

To me: I see that Satan is never mentioned of being created; so many people believe that God is speaking about the angels in heaven at this point. And not another being like God Himself. And He is speaking to create a man in their likeness of having a mind/will/emotion; such as they.

Satan pretty much decided what He was going to do when leaving the heavens and was given pretty much the title deed to the earth.

When it comes to the mention LORD God; I just see Yahweh. No other Gods or anything like that. I believe that God through the Word of His 'mouth' did create. But that is simply God's Word. (Which if you read in the Gospels find out what happens when the Word comes down to earth.)

No idea if this will help you in your quest to understand but this is all that has been made to known to me and what I believe is going on in the text. I might be wrong and thank you for your awesome questions.

 

[HTacianas]

Disclaimer: Although I claim no one particular religious affiliation at the moment I do hold the belief that there is a Supreme Being/Entity which is the source of everything. I'm currently on a quest to understand this Being as much as humanly possible and thus I'm here at a Christian forum. I will try to word my questions and responses carefully as I am not trying to debate rather Christianity is accurate or false, I'm seeking information.

my following question relates to Genesis and covers the following things;

• 2 Creator Beings
• 2 Creations
• 2 types of Man being created

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
​

Clearly in the above 2 passages it's explicit to me what was executed;

• God - talking to others like him or of his caliber gives the command or instructions of creation Man in their likeness and image.
• God - (not the others who he was speaking with) created Man
• God - gave man dominion over Fish of the sea, Fowl of the air, Cattle, the Earth and everything that creeps upon the Earth
• God - created this man in his own image.
• God - created both Male and Female

Now, where I begin to lack understanding is after Genesis 2:3 when God blesses the seventh day and sanctifies it as in the very next passage of 2:4 a new being is introduce without 'proper introduction' named 'LORD God'.

Genesis 2:3

And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.​

Genesis 2:4

These are the generations of the heavens and the of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.​

Now the reason why I take it that the being 'God' and the being 'LORD God' are different is for the following reasons;

1. The word in the KJV "LORD" is capitalized and precedes the previous title of "God" (written in non-capitalized letters except the first).
2. When 'LORD God' comes into the bible, Man and animals and plants have not been created (although they were created in Genesis 1 under the being "God")

Genesis 2:5

And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.​

With Genesis 2:5 compared to Genesis 1:26-1:27 it says to me the the following;

• LORD God comes into the creation story after God
• LORD God and God are two different beings with two different scopes of power (will expand upon this further down)
• LORD God and God are creating in two different realms of existence

I also seem to pick up that Man was fashioned in 2 different manners being the two beings;

God in Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the seas, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

God in Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.​

God in Genesis 1:28

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.​

LORD God in Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

LORD God in Genesis 2:8

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
​

The 5 above passages says to me that there are 2 types of Man;
One created in the image of God by God and One formed (without any indication as to which image it has taken) by LORD God.

Also the Man created by God in Genesis 1 seems to be already alive/living after the very act of creation and if I'm reading the insinuation correction this form of man (created by God) was created in the same material as God. While man created by LORD God is not said to be made in the image of LORD God and further more is created from;

• Dust of the ground
• Having the Breath of Life breathed into it's nostrils to become a 'living soul'

====
As a non-Christian I am not able to post this in the other sub-forums (and I understand and respect that decision) so I'm asking here for some clarity and understanding of the seemingly 2 different entities and their methods of creation. Again, I am not looking to prove or disprove Christianity - for all intends and purposes I believe all religions hold truth and I'm just attempting to understand the truth of the Bible currently so my questions above may seem skeptical but they are more inquisitive than anything.

Thanks for reading, hopefully my questions makes sense.

You've stumbled across something that has a number of different theories behind it. The one I hold to is known as the "J" and "El" text theory, which has it that there are two separate creation accounts, one from the body of texts known as "J", and the other from a body of texts knows as "El". The two accounts were redacted and harmonized into one.

But as to your question of the "material" man and the man made "in the image of God", the material man is physically human, while the "image of God" is the capacity to reason. That man is placed above the rest of the created animals -having dominion over them- reflects mankind's intellect. Mankind is the only animal with the ability to reason. It is the intellect that is in the image of God.

 

[Johnathan_D_Hill]

Hello Johnathan,

First of all do not believe me, think for yourself friend,

You ask some great questions.

To me: I see that Satan is never mentioned of being created; so many people believe that God is speaking about the angels in heaven at this point. And not another being like God Himself. And He is speaking to create a man in their likeness of having a mind/will/emotion; such as they.

Satan pretty much decided what He was going to do when leaving the heavens and was given pretty much the title deed to the earth.

When it comes to the mention LORD God; I just see Yahweh. No other Gods or anything like that. I believe that God through the Word of His 'mouth' did create. But that is simply God's Word. (Which if you read in the Gospels find out what happens when the Word comes down to earth.)

No idea if this will help you in your quest to understand but this is all that has been made to known to me and what I believe is going on in the text. I might be wrong and thank you for your awesome questions.

I did think the 1st creation of Man related to Angels as it would make sense to the information I currently understand.

And I appreciate the reply. I'm sure I'll have more questions for you all as I get further into the Bible.

 

[Johnathan_D_Hill]

You've stumbled across something that has a number of different theories behind it. The one I hold to is known as the "J" and "El" text theory, which has it that there are two separate creation accounts, one from the body of texts known as "J", and the other from a body of texts knows as "El". The two accounts were redacted and harmonized into one.

But as to your question of the "material" man and the man made "in the image of God", the material man is physically human, while the "image of God" is the capacity to reason. That man is placed above the rest of the created animals -having dominion over them- reflects mankind's intellect. Mankind is the only animal with the ability to reason. It is the intellect that is in the image of God.

Thank you for the reply and I'll look into the J and El text theory. I'm slightly familiar with "El" but not too thoroughly.

 

[CuriousPagan]

I actually assumed God was talking to the Earth. (YHWH being a Sky Deity, the Earth would be a natural partner and He does create Man from the Earth.)

 

[d taylor]

Get Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum's The Book of Genesis.

https://www.amazon.com/Book-Genesis-Dr-Arnold-Fruchtenbaum/dp/1935174002

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Disclaimer: Although I claim no one particular religious affiliation at the moment I do hold the belief that there is a Supreme Being/Entity which is the source of everything. I'm currently on a quest to understand this Being as much as humanly possible and thus I'm here at a Christian forum. I will try to word my questions and responses carefully as I am not trying to debate rather Christianity is accurate or false, I'm seeking information.

my following question relates to Genesis and covers the following things;

• 2 Creator Beings
• 2 Creations
• 2 types of Man being created

Some intriguing questions. You'll go far, if you stick around

Firstly I'd recommend ditching the KJV (not entirely but as your main source). It uses words that are out of date and was based on scholarship that is not so good as we have today. It shouldn't make a huge difference, but it might make it easier. A lot of people recommend the ESV. Personally I like the NET because it has a lot (and I mean A LOT) of translation notes and is free to read online, with the notes.

In terms of 2 creator beings, I think most scholars would say that there are two sources for Genesis (i.e. two writers and maybe a compiler). The first source wrote Genesis 1 and the early verses of 2 (the verses are later additions, don't assume that they are good dividers of the story) and the other wrote the rest of Genesis 2-3. In this case the first writer uses the term God (Elohim) and the second uses YHWH, which most translations now translate as LORD thought it literally means 'I am'.

However more recent scholarship is seeing the whole account as one account e.g John Walton's The Lost World of Adam and Eve.

As with God, the idea that there are two creation accounts merged together is common, but Walton and others now are saying that there is one account of creation and then there is the account of the creation of Adam & Eve. Adam is the 'first' could also be translated as Adam is the 'prime'. This helpfully explains where Adam's children got wives from following the expulsion from Eden.

This also, I hope, explains to the two types of man being created. Mankind is created and then a kind of superman, Adam, is created and put to work in Eden, along with Eve and then they are expelled from Eden into the general population.

I hope this helps and I really do commend you on your questions. Not enough Christians ask themselves some of these things.

 

[honey badger]

Disclaimer: Although I claim no one particular religious affiliation at the moment I do hold the belief that there is a Supreme Being/Entity which is the source of everything. I'm currently on a quest to understand this Being as much as humanly possible and thus I'm here at a Christian forum. I will try to word my questions and responses carefully as I am not trying to debate rather Christianity is accurate or false, I'm seeking information.

my following question relates to Genesis and covers the following things;

• 2 Creator Beings
• 2 Creations
• 2 types of Man being created

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
​

Clearly in the above 2 passages it's explicit to me what was executed;

• God - talking to others like him or of his caliber gives the command or instructions of creation Man in their likeness and image.
• God - (not the others who he was speaking with) created Man
• God - gave man dominion over Fish of the sea, Fowl of the air, Cattle, the Earth and everything that creeps upon the Earth
• God - created this man in his own image.
• God - created both Male and Female

Now, where I begin to lack understanding is after Genesis 2:3 when God blesses the seventh day and sanctifies it as in the very next passage of 2:4 a new being is introduce without 'proper introduction' named 'LORD God'.

Genesis 2:3

And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.​

Genesis 2:4

These are the generations of the heavens and the of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.​

Now the reason why I take it that the being 'God' and the being 'LORD God' are different is for the following reasons;

1. The word in the KJV "LORD" is capitalized and precedes the previous title of "God" (written in non-capitalized letters except the first).
2. When 'LORD God' comes into the bible, Man and animals and plants have not been created (although they were created in Genesis 1 under the being "God")

Genesis 2:5

And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.​

With Genesis 2:5 compared to Genesis 1:26-1:27 it says to me the the following;

• LORD God comes into the creation story after God
• LORD God and God are two different beings with two different scopes of power (will expand upon this further down)
• LORD God and God are creating in two different realms of existence

I also seem to pick up that Man was fashioned in 2 different manners being the two beings;

God in Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the seas, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

God in Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.​

God in Genesis 1:28

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.​

LORD God in Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

LORD God in Genesis 2:8

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
​

The 5 above passages says to me that there are 2 types of Man;
One created in the image of God by God and One formed (without any indication as to which image it has taken) by LORD God.

Also the Man created by God in Genesis 1 seems to be already alive/living after the very act of creation and if I'm reading the insinuation correction this form of man (created by God) was created in the same material as God. While man created by LORD God is not said to be made in the image of LORD God and further more is created from;

• Dust of the ground
• Having the Breath of Life breathed into it's nostrils to become a 'living soul'

====
As a non-Christian I am not able to post this in the other sub-forums (and I understand and respect that decision) so I'm asking here for some clarity and understanding of the seemingly 2 different entities and their methods of creation. Again, I am not looking to prove or disprove Christianity - for all intends and purposes I believe all religions hold truth and I'm just attempting to understand the truth of the Bible currently so my questions above may seem skeptical but they are more inquisitive than anything.

Thanks for reading, hopefully my questions makes sense.

could you sum this up in one question ...

 

[Ligurian]

Disclaimer: Although I claim no one particular religious affiliation at the moment I do hold the belief that there is a Supreme Being/Entity which is the source of everything. I'm currently on a quest to understand this Being as much as humanly possible and thus I'm here at a Christian forum. I will try to word my questions and responses carefully as I am not trying to debate rather Christianity is accurate or false, I'm seeking information.

my following question relates to Genesis and covers the following things;

• 2 Creator Beings
• 2 Creations
• 2 types of Man being created

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
​

Clearly in the above 2 passages it's explicit to me what was executed;

• God - talking to others like him or of his caliber gives the command or instructions of creation Man in their likeness and image.
• God - (not the others who he was speaking with) created Man

First of all, welcome aboard. Second, here's background for what you call the "2 Creator Beings"... and maybe for the two classes of "man" being created, since we don't see where God created the angels. And even then, we see that the Word is with God in the beginning John 1:1... and Jesus is given credit for being a creator in several places.

Psalm 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; He judgeth among the gods (Elohim).
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked?
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid [them] out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations. (this God is Jesus)

John 10:33 The Jews answered Him, saying, For a good work we stone Thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that Thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If He called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of Him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

IMO, this is what the Greeks also called Gods, from God Most High, to the created gods, to the "deified" humans who administrated the law... I believe the middle class are the messenger gods which we call angels. We know that Israel had its own angel called Michael, so I think it's safe to assume that all the other peoples had their own angels, too. Lucifer is by Ezekiel called the prince of Lebanon, and by Jesus the prince of this world... so these princes are angels over the nations.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Disclaimer: Although I claim no one particular religious affiliation at the moment I do hold the belief that there is a Supreme Being/Entity which is the source of everything. I'm currently on a quest to understand this Being as much as humanly possible and thus I'm here at a Christian forum. I will try to word my questions and responses carefully as I am not trying to debate rather Christianity is accurate or false, I'm seeking information.

my following question relates to Genesis and covers the following things;

• 2 Creator Beings
• 2 Creations
• 2 types of Man being created

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
​

Clearly in the above 2 passages it's explicit to me what was executed;

• God - talking to others like him or of his caliber gives the command or instructions of creation Man in their likeness and image.
• God - (not the others who he was speaking with) created Man
• God - gave man dominion over Fish of the sea, Fowl of the air, Cattle, the Earth and everything that creeps upon the Earth
• God - created this man in his own image.
• God - created both Male and Female

Now, where I begin to lack understanding is after Genesis 2:3 when God blesses the seventh day and sanctifies it as in the very next passage of 2:4 a new being is introduce without 'proper introduction' named 'LORD God'.

Genesis 2:3

And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.​

Genesis 2:4

These are the generations of the heavens and the of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.​

Now the reason why I take it that the being 'God' and the being 'LORD God' are different is for the following reasons;

1. The word in the KJV "LORD" is capitalized and precedes the previous title of "God" (written in non-capitalized letters except the first).
2. When 'LORD God' comes into the bible, Man and animals and plants have not been created (although they were created in Genesis 1 under the being "God")

Genesis 2:5

And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.​

With Genesis 2:5 compared to Genesis 1:26-1:27 it says to me the the following;

• LORD God comes into the creation story after God
• LORD God and God are two different beings with two different scopes of power (will expand upon this further down)
• LORD God and God are creating in two different realms of existence

I also seem to pick up that Man was fashioned in 2 different manners being the two beings;

God in Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the seas, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

God in Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.​

God in Genesis 1:28

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.​

LORD God in Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

LORD God in Genesis 2:8

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
​

The 5 above passages says to me that there are 2 types of Man;
One created in the image of God by God and One formed (without any indication as to which image it has taken) by LORD God.

Also the Man created by God in Genesis 1 seems to be already alive/living after the very act of creation and if I'm reading the insinuation correction this form of man (created by God) was created in the same material as God. While man created by LORD God is not said to be made in the image of LORD God and further more is created from;

• Dust of the ground
• Having the Breath of Life breathed into it's nostrils to become a 'living soul'

====
As a non-Christian I am not able to post this in the other sub-forums (and I understand and respect that decision) so I'm asking here for some clarity and understanding of the seemingly 2 different entities and their methods of creation. Again, I am not looking to prove or disprove Christianity - for all intends and purposes I believe all religions hold truth and I'm just attempting to understand the truth of the Bible currently so my questions above may seem skeptical but they are more inquisitive than anything.

Thanks for reading, hopefully my questions makes sense.

You are reading Genesis like a Fundamentalist. Sorry, it's true though. It's intended to be understood much differently than that.

There is a Bible in a year podcast that Fr. Mike Schmitz is doing that goes through the text and provides an explainer. You can start and follow it through Genesis or you could even keep going for the whole year.

‎The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz) on Apple Podcasts

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5maXJlc2lkZS5mbS9iaWJsZWluYXllYXIvcnNz

All Bible in a Year Episodes - Ascension Press Media

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Disclaimer: Although I claim no one particular religious affiliation at the moment I do hold the belief that there is a Supreme Being/Entity which is the source of everything. I'm currently on a quest to understand this Being as much as humanly possible and thus I'm here at a Christian forum. I will try to word my questions and responses carefully as I am not trying to debate rather Christianity is accurate or false, I'm seeking information.

my following question relates to Genesis and covers the following things;

• 2 Creator Beings
• 2 Creations
• 2 types of Man being created

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
​

Clearly in the above 2 passages it's explicit to me what was executed;

• God - talking to others like him or of his caliber gives the command or instructions of creation Man in their likeness and image.
• God - (not the others who he was speaking with) created Man
• God - gave man dominion over Fish of the sea, Fowl of the air, Cattle, the Earth and everything that creeps upon the Earth
• God - created this man in his own image.
• God - created both Male and Female

Now, where I begin to lack understanding is after Genesis 2:3 when God blesses the seventh day and sanctifies it as in the very next passage of 2:4 a new being is introduce without 'proper introduction' named 'LORD God'.

Genesis 2:3

And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.​

Genesis 2:4

These are the generations of the heavens and the of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.​

Now the reason why I take it that the being 'God' and the being 'LORD God' are different is for the following reasons;

1. The word in the KJV "LORD" is capitalized and precedes the previous title of "God" (written in non-capitalized letters except the first).
2. When 'LORD God' comes into the bible, Man and animals and plants have not been created (although they were created in Genesis 1 under the being "God")

Genesis 2:5

And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.​

With Genesis 2:5 compared to Genesis 1:26-1:27 it says to me the the following;

• LORD God comes into the creation story after God
• LORD God and God are two different beings with two different scopes of power (will expand upon this further down)
• LORD God and God are creating in two different realms of existence

I also seem to pick up that Man was fashioned in 2 different manners being the two beings;

God in Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the seas, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

God in Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.​

God in Genesis 1:28

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.​

LORD God in Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

LORD God in Genesis 2:8

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
​

The 5 above passages says to me that there are 2 types of Man;
One created in the image of God by God and One formed (without any indication as to which image it has taken) by LORD God.

Also the Man created by God in Genesis 1 seems to be already alive/living after the very act of creation and if I'm reading the insinuation correction this form of man (created by God) was created in the same material as God. While man created by LORD God is not said to be made in the image of LORD God and further more is created from;

• Dust of the ground
• Having the Breath of Life breathed into it's nostrils to become a 'living soul'

====
As a non-Christian I am not able to post this in the other sub-forums (and I understand and respect that decision) so I'm asking here for some clarity and understanding of the seemingly 2 different entities and their methods of creation. Again, I am not looking to prove or disprove Christianity - for all intends and purposes I believe all religions hold truth and I'm just attempting to understand the truth of the Bible currently so my questions above may seem skeptical but they are more inquisitive than anything.

Thanks for reading, hopefully my questions makes sense.

Welcome to CF! As you continue on your journey through scripture it will quickly become apparent that there is only one God. For instance, this verse encapsulates both Lord and God as one and the same.
Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! (Deuteronomy 6:4).
As we read through scripture, the relationship between man and God grows into a personal relationship leading to the final conclusion through Jesus Christ of Nazareth who is the King of the Kingdom of God, our Lord.

 

[timothyu]

Ask yourself how this relates to the fall of some angels, what they did to fall by putting their will ahead of the will of the Father, how a so called fallen angel can be the prince/ruler of this planet, why God cast out from the Garden His dust creation into a world already in tandem with the Garden (the Garden being opposite in nature to the world we are in), and how those two fallen humans once fallen, now fit so readily into the world they were cast into. Two different worlds, two different types of human, two different ways of being and thinking. Similar to the difference between the Kingdom to come and the current world of man. Not all are in the Book of Life nor given to the Saviour as His own.

Jesus came to remind this world of the counter-culture of the Kingdom (Garden). It was His gospel. What is to come is a reversal to what once was, a separation of worlds and thinking. One of those worlds and it's ways to become no more. As the prayer goes.. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done in earth as it is in Heaven. Our will as dominant and our world we have made in our own mage, will be no more as it was never the Lord God's creation in the first place. He could have destroyed it once, but reneged, leaving the door open for change rather than obsolescence. That change involves a repentance of the ways of the fallen angels and man in whose image this world of ours is made, and a return to the ways of the Garden, the wisdom of the Father over that of man/angels having become known and accepted. His will be done, not ours.

 

[Johnathan_D_Hill]

I actually assumed God was talking to the Earth. (YHWH being a Sky Deity, the Earth would be a natural partner and He does create Man from the Earth.)

Hey CuriousPagan,
and I can understand that point of view. the reason I assumed he(God of Genesis 1) isn't speaking to the Earth as a partner is because God said;

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the seas, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over the the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
​

To me the way the sentences flow its as if God is speaking of the Earth as his creation (Genesis 1:1) given to this 1st class of Man created in it's Creator's image and likeness.

 

[Johnathan_D_Hill]

Get Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum's The Book of Genesis.

https://www.amazon.com/Book-Genesis-Dr-Arnold-Fruchtenbaum/dp/1935174002

I'm always down for book suggestions!
Thank you for the link, I'm going to save it to my to buy list.

 

[Johnathan_D_Hill]

Firstly I'd recommend ditching the KJV (not entirely but as your main source). It uses words that are out of date and was based on scholarship that is not so good as we have today. It shouldn't make a huge difference, but it might make it easier. A lot of people recommend the ESV. Personally I like the NET because it has a lot (and I mean A LOT) of translation notes and is free to read online, with the notes.

Thank you for the kind compliment Sir.

and understood, I too remember hearing here and there the issues with the KJV but I was approaching this 'cup empty' to not taint my studies. but I will definitely google the ESV and NET versions (Thank you for giving me some more resources).

In terms of 2 creator beings, I think most scholars would say that there are two sources for Genesis (i.e. two writers and maybe a compiler). The first source wrote Genesis 1 and the early verses of 2 (the verses are later additions, don't assume that they are good dividers of the story) and the other wrote the rest of Genesis 2-3. In this case the first writer uses the term God (Elohim) and the second uses YHWH, which most translations now translate as LORD thought it literally means 'I am'.

To touch back on your previous suggestion of switching versions, I wanted to learn basic Hebrew to tackle reading the first 5 books of Moses in it's most closest original source but my heart was bigger than my muscle and I discovered the task wouldn't be completed overnight (learning enough rudimentary Hebrew to be able to read the Old Testament in Hebrew utilizing online resources as companions). but the reason I bring that up is for the different interpretations of titles and terms such as Elohim and YHWH - lol I have much to learn.

However more recent scholarship is seeing the whole account as one account e.g John Walton's The Lost World of Adam and Eve.

There is no question that the Israelites thought that these were different beings, but later words indicate that The Lord God is one.

As with God, the idea that there are two creation accounts merged together is common, but Walton and others now are saying that there is one account of creation and then there is the account of the creation of Adam & Eve. Adam is the 'first' could also be translated as Adam is the 'prime'. This helpfully explains where Adam's children got wives from following the expulsion from Eden.

This also, I hope, explains to the two types of man being created. Mankind is created and then a kind of superman, Adam, is created and put to work in Eden, along with Eve and then they are expelled from Eden into the general population.

I hope this helps and I really do commend you on your questions. Not enough Christians ask themselves some of these things.

I'll have to look into the accounts of John Walton (and thanks for the book suggestion!).

Interesting that the Israelites thought they were different beings. I'm going to google that and see what it returns. and I appreciate you explaining it to me and taking the time to share insight - I'll have to continue reading and meditate upon it to see how it all 'fits' into the puzzle.

 

[Johnathan_D_Hill]

could you sum this up in one question ...

Unfortunately not. as the question itself is too complex to reduce to a single question.
My apologies if this is a wall of text.

 

[TedT]

the material man is physically human, while the "image of God"

Have you ever considered that the image of GOD means that we are persons like HE is with full personhood (ie, not just the capacity to reason but to love, plan, have faith etc) , that is, we are suitable for HIM to marry in the heavenly marriage, ie, we are not animals passed over as inadequate.

 

[Johnathan_D_Hill]

First of all, welcome aboard. Second, here's background for what you call the "2 Creator Beings"... and maybe for the two classes of "man" being created, since we don't see where God created the angels. And even then, we see that the Word is with God in the beginning John 1:1... and Jesus is given credit for being a creator in several places.

Psalm 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; He judgeth among the gods (Elohim).
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked?
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid [them] out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations. (this God is Jesus)

John 10:33 The Jews answered Him, saying, For a good work we stone Thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that Thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If He called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of Him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

IMO, this is what the Greeks also called Gods, from God Most High, to the created gods, to the "deified" humans who administrated the law... I believe the middle class are the messenger gods which we call angels. We know that Israel had its own angel called Michael, so I think it's safe to assume that all the other peoples had their own angels, too. Lucifer is by Ezekiel called the prince of Lebanon, and by Jesus the prince of this world... so these princes are angels over the nations.

I can understand that (Genesis 1 speaking of Angels being created) and I believe You and GallagherM have a good point. the reason why I assumed or interpreted the text to not relate to Angels was for Me (and again mind you, I'm just beginning to read the Bible so I'm at the very beginning) because there was no other context to link with Angels (in the KJV). and not to be sexist or attempt to be rude but I never recalled Angels being described as Women or Females. I know they are said to be androgynous but I don't recall an angel being described strictly in feminine terms. It could be out of ignorance on my behalf and if so, my apologies.

So I'd taken the mention of Man in Genesis 1 as being a more elevated or 'perfected' man (below Angels but above Humans) where as the Man in Genesis 2 is a more temporal or baser man (less perfected)

 

[Johnathan_D_Hill]

You are reading Genesis like a Fundamentalist. Sorry, it's true though. It's intended to be understood much differently than that.

There is a Bible in a year podcast that Fr. Mike Schmitz is doing that goes through the text and provides an explainer. You can start and follow it through Genesis or you could even keep going for the whole year.

‎The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz) on Apple Podcasts

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5maXJlc2lkZS5mbS9iaWJsZWluYXllYXIvcnNz

All Bible in a Year Episodes - Ascension Press Media

Thank you for the links,
I'll check them out!