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I have none.....though I was raised RC, was an altar boy for years when I was young, went to a Seminary, I just can't ever remember whether I read it or not......sad but trueWhat's your view?
My Catechism has approximately 2,300 unique Scriptural references. How many did the one you study have?Josiah said:I've studied every single word of it. All 800 pages.
Some comments:
1. It's BIG. There's a LOT there. And it's just the tip of the iceburg; all just very brief summeries of doctrines far, far more extensive. It's not exactly apples to apples, but I have two Catechisms here at my desk. My Catholic one has 800 pages. My Lutheran one has 8.
2. What struck me is the almost entire lack of substantiation. Occasionally, there's a tiny foot note that gives us a Bible reference (almost never with the actual quote). I looked up and studies EVERY SINGLE ONE of them. At times, it seemed either entirely moot to the discussion or actually made the point in the Catechism problematic.
3. It's VERY articulate. OBVIOUSLY the language is very, very intentional and well thought out - to an extent very rarely seen in religion and even doctrinal books. LOTS of thought went into this. I always respected that, and still I use the book at LOT - I just like the clarity and precision of it.
4. I overwhelmingly agree with it. But here and there, something is said that just seems unsubstantiated. A dogmatic fact is made - perhaps remarkable - either with no attempt to document it as true, or if it does, that attempt is entirely inadequate to the point made. I - at times - found myself concluding that there's no reason to determine this is incorrect but also no reason even given to conclude it's correct. And those almost always tended to be issues where the CC departs from all other denominations, distinctives of the CC. Purgatory. Infalliblity of the Papacy. Transubstantiation. Immaculate Conception. Those issues.
5. CCC # 87 makes a foundational claim that should be solidly heard before one opens the Catechism (it should be in those early introductory points). Catholics are required to accept whatever the book says "with docility" as Jesus Himself speaking. This is on a par with Scripture. I think too often people read it as a sort of summery of what Catholics teach, they are to evaluate and consider it or perhaps use it as a reference book for Catholic theology. Wrong. They are to accept every word "with docility" as Jesus speaking. Read it as listening to Jesus. Accept every letter as such (and be a Catholic) or have the integrity to admit that you don't and leave.
It's one of the most referenced books in my library. I HIGHLY recommend it for all Christians. Not as infallibly correct, but as a very articulate and typically very excellent summery of Christian doctrine.
.
That makes me want to ask if any other non/ex-RC here has read thru all 800 pages.
Catechism
vs.
Scripture
Justification is a transformation of the soul in which original sin is removed and sanctifying grace infused [1987-1995].
Justification is an act of God in which He declares a sinner to be righteous in His sight, having forgiven his sins and imputed to him God's own righteousness (Romans 3:21-4:8).
Initial justification is by means of baptism [1262-1274].
Justification is by faith alone (Romans 3:28).
Adults must prepare for justification through faith and good works [1247-1249]
God justifies ungodly sinners who believe (Romans 4:5) Good works are a result of salvation, not the cause (Ephesians 2:8-10).
The justified are in themselves beautiful and holy in God's sight [1992, 1999-2000, 2024]. The justified are In Christ holy and blameless before God (Ephesians 1:1-14).
Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works [1212, 1392,2010]. Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). In Christ the believer has been made complete
(Colossians 2:10).
Justification is lost through mortal sin [1033,1855,1874]. Justifications cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies will be saved from the wrath of God (Romans 5:8,9).
Catholics guilty of mortal sin are justified again through the sacrament of penance [980, 1446]. there is no second justification. Those whom God justifies, He also glorifies (Romans 8:30)
Salvation from the eternal consequences of sin is a lifelong process [161-162, 1254-1255]. Salvation from the eternal consequences of sin is an instantaneous and secure act of God coinciding with justification (Romans 5:9)
Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments [183, 1129, 1815, 2002]. Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation (Ephesians 2:10)
Faith is belief in God and the firm acceptance of all that the Church proposes for belief [181-182, 1814]. Saving faith is the entrusting of oneself to Christ as Lord and Savior (Romans 10:8-17).
Sanctifying grace is a quality of the soul, a supernatural disposition that perfects the soul [1999-2000]. Grace is the undeserved favor of God (Ephesians 1:7,8)
The sacraments are necessary channels for the continual infusion of grace. They bestow grace in virtue of the rite performed [1127-1129]. The child of God is the constant object of the Father's grace (Romans 5:1,2).
Grace is merited by good works [2010, 2027]. Grace is a free gift (Romans 11:6).
Venial sins do not incur eternal punishment [1855, 1863]. Every sin is punishable by eternal death (Romans 6:23).
Serious sins must be confessed to a priest [1456-1457]. Sin is to be confessed directly to God (Ezra 10:11).
The priest forgives sin as a judge [1442, 1461]. No one can forgive sin but God alone (Mark 2:7).
When the guilt of sin is forgiven, temporal punishment remains [1472-1473]. When God forgives sin, He completely forgives (Colossians 2:13; Isaiah 43:25).
Acts of penance make satisfaction for the temporal punishment of sin [1434, 1459-1460]. Jesus made perfect satisfaction for all sins (1 John 2:1,2).
Indulgences dispensed by the Church for acts of piety release sinners from temporal punishment [1471-1473]. Jesus releases believers from their sins by His blood (Revelation 1:5).
Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and cleanse the soul [1030-1031]. Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross (Hebrews 1:3).
Poor souls suffering in purgatory can be helped by those alive on earth offering up prayers, good works, and the sacrifice of the Mass [1032, 1371, 1479]. Those who sleep in Christ need no help. To be absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8).
No one can know if he will attain to eternal life [1036, 2005]. The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God (1John 5:13).
Eternal life is a merited reward [1821, 2010].
Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23).
The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation [846]. There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, "for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).
Apparently Evangelical TV Pastor Jack Van impe has ( which if anyone knows anything about him that is not too much of a shock) and found this interest quote by him
Van Impe has said, “I have read the entire new catechism, 2800 points. And I know what they believe and we misrepresent them so often. I was one of those bigots who used to do it. And the Spirit spoke to me.”
The part that is highlighted sure does sound like a few people on this board. We don't have to mention any names
So these are some of the websites you receive your information from.
To me it preaches a different Gospel than the one layed out in the scriptures..
5. CCC # 87 makes a foundational claim that should be solidly heard before one opens the Catechism (it should be in those early introductory points). Catholics are required to accept whatever the book says "with docility" as Jesus Himself speaking. This is on a par with Scripture. I think too often people read it as a sort of summery of what Catholics teach, they are to evaluate and consider it or perhaps use it as a reference book for Catholic theology. Wrong. They are to accept every word "with docility" as Jesus speaking. Read it as listening to Jesus. Accept every letter as such (and be a Catholic) or have the integrity to admit that you don't and leave.
I think too often people read it as a sort of summery of what Catholics teach, they are to evaluate and consider it or perhaps use it as a reference book for Catholic theology.
It's amazing how badly the Catholic Church overlooked these obvious verses in Scripture for thousands of years. It's like, "Oh SHOOT! Only God forgives sins, how did we 'miss' that!!"
this type of representation of someone's faith borders on what is morally ethical. It is purposely cut and pasted out of context. It blurs the line of actually lying.
this what the Catholic Church REALLY teaches about justification via the catechism.
1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or "justice") here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.
1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:40
[SIZE=-1]But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.41 [/SIZE]
and if anyone is actually interested in the truth on what they teach on this, here is the whole page and you can decide for yourself if certain people are properly representing other Christians.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - Grace and justification
I don't know why some people just overlook and pretend that part does not exist in Catholic teachings.
I mean we all have our differences and debating on those differences can actually be a great learning experience for both sides.
I don't understand Christians purposley distort other Christians Faiths. I just don't understand.
on the side of Catholics.
maybe I misunderstood yours as well
the part you highlighted do you agree or disagree?
I don't agree with all of it; I wouldn't being an Anglican if I did agree with it all!
However, the majority of it I do. I believe it to be an exhaustive yet not necessarily difficult read and authority on the Vatican Catholic Church. I find it very sad that a lot of people willingly misinterpret it for their own purposes; my sympathies as always to VCs when faced with such persecution.
I find it to be an intellectually-pleasing, enjoyable read overall. While I cannot put as much doctrinal emphasis on it as VCs do, I do believe it is an excellent general overview of orthodox Apostolic Christianity.
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