Non-Catholic's view of RC Catechism

[JacktheCatholic]

We are not in a formal assembling of ourselves together. This is a debate forum to which I am a member. Jesus never told the women He interacted with to shut up and sit down. In fact He sent them to go tell others. Now if I thought I could stand up in a formal assembly and be a Pastor then that is a whole different story. But since that is not what is happening here then you take scripture out of context to how and why it was written.

I am only taking another's teaching and reiterating it here. It is a Sola Scriptura teaching and one that relies solely on scripture for it's teaching. Kind of ironic that you would find disagreement with another SS teaching.

BTW, how is this forum any different? You have Christian men discussing scripture and teaching about scripture. We have more than 2 or 3 meeting in the Lord's name. So, what makes an 'assembly' in your church?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.


No he didnt (unless maybe you're ignorant or unstable)

No he wasn't
He was anti 'twisting' (distorting)

How do you know if it is error or from lawlessness..? There has to be ONE truth left intact - because God did not create many truths.

Anyone distorting the scriptures with error is doing so lawlessly.
And mind you this - no one WANTS to be doing so in error....
So it's not like there is a guide outside from what the Apostles absolutely meant.
Peter stated Paul was hard to understand.
AND IF HE was hard to understand IN THOSE times, how could we possibly begin to imagine we understand him now - 2000 years later.

This conclusively means that these and anyone who teach error - are doing it out of ignorance.
Ignorance is lack of knowledge on the subject...it's not with full intent.

BUT if it does not coincide with what Paul meant - it's error.

No one should be trying to discern scriptures on their own. Or Christ would have hand written His own text and said 'Have at it'...and left us alone.

These men ordained other men to continue to teach one truth - see Timothy for instance if you do not believe me.
HOW could Paul even suggest to Timothy to keep the oral as well as written - IF - he was not teaching him to BE a successor?

Why would Paul waste the animal hide to explain to Timothy how a BISHOP of the Church ought to act - if the Church was insignificant?

And why give names to the teachers, such as Bishop - Presbyter - elder - if there were not to be successors in their place?

Hi WA

You know me all too well.

Of course, as a Catholic, I do not understand the scripture the way I was posting.

I was using a Protestant theology to address something taught with Sola Scriptura. It seemed productive to argue a SS theology with another SS theology. An experiment if you will.

It is a teaching by many Protestant churches that women should not teach and should remain quiet so the men can teach. So, why do 'these' Protestant women come here and debate with men?

O ok. If home is a Church - and women should remain silent, then i suppose this makes sense.

 

[MamaZ]

I am only taking another's teaching and reiterating it here. It is a Sola Scriptura teaching and one that relies solely on scripture for it's teaching. Kind of ironic that you would find disagreement with another SS teaching.

BTW, how is this forum any different? You have Christian men discussing scripture and teaching about scripture. We have more than 2 or 3 meeting in the Lord's name. So, what makes an 'assembly' in your church?

I am sola Scriptura person my self, and I take the full context of the written scriptures. This forum is not a formal assembling of a body coming to worship God.. This is a group of people of all different faiths coming to debate topics.

 

[sunlover1]

How do you know if it is error or from lawlessness..?

Either way, the remedy is the same, and that's to study and become skilled
yourself in handling the word, rather than a babe on milk.
For every one that uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness:
for he is a babe.

There has to be ONE truth left intact - because God did not create many truths.

There was ALWAYS only one truth.

So it's not like there is a guide outside from what the Apostles absolutely meant.
Peter stated Paul was hard to understand.

Yes, that's what he said:
16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

AND IF HE was hard to understand IN THOSE times, how could we possibly begin to imagine we understand him now - 2000 years later.

Yep. Still "hard" to understand.
Lot's of things are 'hard' to understand so the remedy is ?
Study!
[/quote]

No one should be trying to discern scriptures on their own. Or Christ would have hand written His own text and said 'Have at it'...and left us alone.

EVERYOne should be trying to understand Scripture! We should MEDITATE on it..
Day and night!!
The entrance of the word brings LIGHT!

I, Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according to the word of the LORD given to Jeremiah the prophet...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: " 'The stone the builders rejected
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation

Very first incidence in the Bible was in Genesis
devil asks: Are ya SURE that's what God said?
(Eve was her own pope lol)

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I am sola Scriptura person my self, and I take the full context of the written scriptures. This forum is not a formal assembling of a body coming to worship God.. This is a group of people of all different faiths coming to debate topics.

I disagree.

This place is an assembly of Christians. We come here to learn and teach as well.

 

[Tangible]

I disagree.

This place is an assembly of Christians. We come here to learn and teach as well.

No Sacraments. That's why CF isn't a church.

It's more like an informal bible study or an ecumenical church social with lively discourse, not members of one body gathered around the Body and Blood of our Lord to receive his Word and Sacraments.

"Church" or worship is about us receiving from God, not about what we do.


... and eSacraments don't count.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

No Sacraments. That's why CF isn't a church.

It's more like an informal bible study or an ecumenical church social with lively discourse, not members of one body gathered around the Body and Blood of our Lord to receive his Word and Sacraments.

"Church" or worship is about us receiving from God, not about what we do.


... and eSacraments don't count.

Yes, I know.

But I am certain that there are Evangelical Fundamental groups that meet in their house with 2 or more and to them that is the church and the only church they recognize. I used to attend prayer meetings with such a group.

This site is a gathering of Christians and so with that same theology this too is a church to some. It is a virtual meeting place with real people who study, teach and learn from each other.

So, in that do I disagree. This is a church for some that are SS.

Obviously a Lutheran or a Catholic would not agree.

 

[MamaZ]

This is not an assembly of believers as in a formal assembly.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

This is not an assembly of believers as in a formal assembly.

Why not?

What makes a formal assembly?

 

[sunlover1]

Yes, I know.

But I am certain that there are Evangelical Fundamental groups that meet in their house with 2 or more and to them that is the church and the only church they recognize. I used to attend prayer meetings with such a group.

And if the same group of you got together over a beer and discussed
theology did you call it "a church"?
(women are to keep silent in the "churches")
Not "women in the church" keep silent.
See the difference?

Obviously a Lutheran or a Catholic would not agree.

Mama has to answer for what mama does.

 

[razeontherock]

Actually St Peter said exactly NOT to do that. [to study the Word and learn to handle it correctly]

You have a very long and winding road ahead of you to try to establish that assertion.

There is but one oral teaching that remains intact. [Referring to RC]

You seem to fail to grasp that the assertion it remains intact is challenged outright, and only your denomination accepts that idea.

 

[razeontherock]

It is a teaching by many Protestant churches that women should not teach and should remain quiet so the men can teach.

I have NEVER heard this, in a serious context of how any Pr Church is run.

 

[Hairy Tic]

Puts all the doctrines and so forth of the Roman Church in a nice nutshell.

## Is there anything comparable for those of us who are not very well informed about Orthodoxy ?

 

[razeontherock]

Peter stated Paul was hard to understand.
AND IF HE was hard to understand IN THOSE times, how could we possibly begin to imagine we understand him now - 2000 years later.

No one should be trying to discern scriptures on their own.

I realize you are being faithful to what you've been taught and I respect that - but I don't find these ideas to hold up to scrutiny.

 

[razeontherock]

I disagree.

This place is an assembly of Christians. We come here to learn and teach as well.

Looking at the whole of Scripture, the issue wasn't women being silent to let men teach; it was usurping authority. In a setting w/ seating by gender, so the women's section was creating a disturbance which their PA system couldn't over-ride.

That doesn't apply here.

 

[Hairy Tic]

I'm sticking with my Westminster Larger Catechism...thanks.

## Why not the Westminster Confession ? That's more articulate & systematic than the Longer or Shorter Catechism.

 

[MamaZ]

Why not?

What makes a formal assembly?

When one goes to a place pysically to worship and learn Gods word where there is a Pastor teacher elder and deacons. We are to learn in silence. This is a discussion board. Same with a bible study that all participate in. We are not under the leading of a Pastor Teacher here. We have been invited here to discuss women and men alike.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

When one goes to a place pysically to worship and learn Gods word where there is a Pastor teacher elder and deacons. We are to learn in silence. This is a discussion board. Same with a bible study that all participate in. We are not under the leading of a Pastor Teacher here. We have been invited here to discuss women and men alike.

If you just gave me a recipe for an assembly then it still appears that this forum can be the same as an assembly.

Physically we are all at our PC.
We come here to learn God's word.
We have preachers, elders, deacons and priests.
I can be very silent while at the site with only my keyboard making noise as I type.
Jesus is our teacher and we are all under Him at CF.

I still do not see how this is any different than the times we gathered with our evangelical fundalmentist group for prayer and study and worship???

 

[JacktheCatholic]

And if the same group of you got together over a beer and discussed
theology did you call it "a church"?
(women are to keep silent in the "churches")
Not "women in the church" keep silent.
See the difference?

Mama has to answer for what mama does.

None of us drank beer. When we met it was to gather in honor of Jesus and worship by prayer and study and reading of scripture and learning. Our teacher was Jesus and we all believed the Holy Spirit guided the meeting. It was considered a 'church' because there was 2 or more gathered in His name.

Completely SS.

There was nothing about women keeping silent in our little group of believers.

However, I assure you that at my buddies Pentecostal Church they do not allow women to lead or usurp a man and his authority and no woman holds authority. Some go by that scriptural passage very closely and use Sola Scriptura and can back everything they teach with the scriptures. Women must remain silent.

I am trying to understand here.

Too bad my buddy does not do Christian Forums. It would be very interesting for him to join this discussion.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Looking at the whole of Scripture, the issue wasn't women being silent to let men teach; it was usurping authority. In a setting w/ seating by gender, so the women's section was creating a disturbance which their PA system couldn't over-ride.

That doesn't apply here.

LOL


That was pretty good. I think my mom (very feminist) would be frowning though. But that would cause me to laugh even harder.