Noah's Flood

[Michali]

@TheBear: Good idea, but since the debate still revolves around the mysterious appearance and disappearance of loads of water, I'll adress this point:

When the flood story was written, the babylonian world model was en vogue - a flat earth, floating on water, with a crystal dome above it. The principles of the cycle of water (evaporation, rain, etc...) were not understood yet, so it is no wonder the bible speaks of reservoirs of water above and below. This of course shouldn't be taken literally, as geology has shown us that the earth's crust does not rest upon water, nor giant caverns of water.

Proverbs 25:14- Like clouds and wind without rain is a man who boasts of gifts he does not give.

Proverbs 25:23- As a north wind brings rain, so a sly tongue brings angry looks.

Proverbs 25:3- As the heavens are high and the Earth is deep, so the hearts of kings are unsearchable.

I want to find this one but it goes something like "when the clouds are full of water they give rain on the earth"

The Bible speaks of opening the windows of Heaven to pour out blessings. Perhaps miracles as well. Comes from the clouds: its rain. Comes from the windows of Heaven: its a miracle.

 

[Siliconaut]

Proverbs 25:14- Like clouds and wind without rain is a man who boasts of gifts he does not give.

Well, we have a proverb that's a non-sequitur. Bad start.

Proverbs 25:23- As a north wind brings rain, so a sly tongue brings angry looks.

Another one...

Proverbs 25:3- As the heavens are high and the Earth is deep, so the hearts of kings are unsearchable.

And another one.

I want to find this one but it goes something like "when the clouds are full of water they give rain on the earth"

Well, then at least that was correctly understood. I wonder if the cycle was adressed, though.

The Bible speaks of opening the windows of Heaven to pour out blessings. Perhaps miracles as well. Comes from the clouds: its rain. Comes from the windows of Heaven: its a miracle.

What does that have to do with where the necessary water came from and went to? Are we in the "unexplainable" phase already?

 

[Nathan Poe]

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Well, we have a proverb that's a non-sequitur. Bad start.


Another one...


And another one.


Well, then at least that was correctly understood. I wonder if the cycle was adressed, though.


What does that have to do with where the necessary water came from and went to? Are we in the "unexplainable" phase already?

Well, the verses do establish that the Hebrews understood that rain came from clouds. Which means that at some point in history, at least one of them looked up during a storm. Whoopdy-Do.

 

[Michali]

Well, the verses do establish that the Hebrews understood that rain came from clouds. Which means that at some point in history, at least one of them looked up during a storm. Whoopdy-Do.

hey, I'm laughin'

 

[samiam]

I see what you are talking about (the flooding of the border between Turkey, Armenia and parts of Iraq).

a) Is there any evidence that the area suffered a flood?

I actually prefer the Black Sea theory myself.

Basically, the Black Sea was, once upon a time, land below sea level, where people grep crops. Then the natural dam linking the Mediterranean sea to the Black Sea broke, and all that water quickly flodded in, destroying any civilization there.

There is support for this theory; people have found obvious evidence of human habitation (buildings, etc.) at the bottom of the Black Sea.

- Sam

 

[Michali]

very good theory

 

[bagfullofsnakes]

Water is there, that is why compared to land, water covers much more of the earth.

The Bible says water kept for 40 days and 40 nights.

Well, there are a few verses that support that theory.

How Long Was Noah's Flood?

40 Days?
Gen 7:4
For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

Gen 7:12
And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Gen 7:17
And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

47 Days?
Gen 8:6-11 6And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made. 7And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth. 8Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; 9But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark. 10And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; 11And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf plucked off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.

150 Days?
Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Gen 8:3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Gen 7:11 Plus Gen 8:4
Gen 8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

Equals 150 Days

225 Days?
Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Gen 7:11 Plus Gen 8:5

Gen 8:5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.

Equals 225 Days

318 Days?
Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Gen 7:11 Plus Gen 8:13

Gen 8:13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.

Equals 318 Days

375 Days?
Gen 8:13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.

Gen 8:13 Plus Gen 8:14

Gen 8:14 And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.

Equals 375 Days

So, how long was Noah's flood? 40 Days, 47 Days, 150 Days, 225 Days, 318 Days, or 375 Days?

The bible says it was all six!

 

[Michali]

The last one.

First the mountain top he was on became dry. Then the whole earth became dry.

 

[Nathan Poe]

The last one.

First the mountain top he was on became dry. Then the whole earth became dry.

Which brings us back to the magical question: Where did all that water go?

 

[goat37]

Which brings us back to the magical question: Where did all that water go?

and where did the olive branch come from that the bird brought back?!?!?!

and how did kangaroos get to australia?

 

[Nathan Poe]

and where did the olive branch come from that the bird brought back?!?!?!

and how did kangaroos get to australia?

Apparantly it's a little known fact that olive trees can grow while completely submerged in water for 40-375 days.

 

[Michali]

Apparantly it's a little known fact that olive trees can grow while completely submerged in water for 40-375 days.

Perhaps it was already grown.

 

[serendipity79]

to all athiests,
We should all keep in mind that if all christianity is of no truth, than the religion is of no importance, but on the chance that it is true, it is of the utmost importance. Once you have found Jesus and accepted him, you will see this. If this is the case that christianity is false, which i know is not the case. but i am humoring you, i know that what you do on earth will not matter whatsoever, because if you die you have absolutely nothing afterward, everything ceases. so why be so selfish in life it really gets you nothing, to me, even before i became a christian, i got more out of giving than recieving. I will pray for you all.
God bless

 

[JohnR7]

i am humoring you, i know that what you do on earth will not matter whatsoever, because if you die you have absolutely nothing afterward, everything ceases. so why be so selfish in life it really gets you nothing, to me, even before i became a christian, i got more out of giving than recieving. I will pray for you all. God bless

I would live the christian life just for the benifits I receive here in this life. Just like there are unbelievers who basicly live a good moral life because they see benifits to doing that.

In the same way, people avoid sin, because they see there are consequences for that in this life. Also there is sin that can cause a early death, or a more diffiult end to this life.

People whe believe: "Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die" may not make it to tomorrow.

Luke 12:19-20
And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. [20] But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

 

[Pete Harcoff]

I actually prefer the Black Sea theory myself.

Basically, the Black Sea was, once upon a time, land below sea level, where people grep crops. Then the natural dam linking the Mediterranean sea to the Black Sea broke, and all that water quickly flodded in, destroying any civilization there.

There is support for this theory; people have found obvious evidence of human habitation (buildings, etc.) at the bottom of the Black Sea.

Since discovering the Black Sea flood, I have seen evidence that suggests it was not a rapid deluge. That it actually flooded much too slowly to be considered the source of the flood legends of the time.

I'll try to dig up what I've read on the subject.

 

[fortheloveofmike]

Then why would God choose to destroy civilization with a physically impossible flood if He knows that in 4,000 years every one will know it was impossible?

God likes it when people use faith to believe in him.

 

[Nathan Poe]

God likes it when people use faith to believe in him.

Or He hates it when we use common sense; take your pick.

 

[Siliconaut]

@serendipidy79:

to all athiests,
We should all keep in mind that if all christianity is of no truth, than the religion is of no importance, but on the chance that it is true, it is of the utmost importance. Once you have found Jesus and accepted him, you will see this. If this is the case that christianity is false, which i know is not the case. but i am humoring you, i know that what you do on earth will not matter whatsoever, because if you die you have absolutely nothing afterward, everything ceases. so why be so selfish in life it really gets you nothing [...]

The chances christianity was more valid than any other religion out there are not measurable, but - given the sheer amount of creeds which claim to possess "the truth" - must be infinitesimally small. You're going in the direction of Pascal's Wager, which really is the worst possible ground for religious belief there is.

When I die, I will be immortal for as long as my genes survive somewhere (which they most probably will), and the molecules that make up "me" will become one with the universe again. This does not reek of "nothing" to me... =)

As for being egoistic - is that what you think atheists are?? How egoistic and prideful of you to think christians are better people...

 

[Michali]

@serendipidy79:
The chances christianity was more valid than any other religion out there are not measurable, but - given the sheer amount of creeds which claim to possess "the truth" - must be infinitesimally small. You're going in the direction of Pascal's Wager, which really is the worst possible ground for religious belief there is.

When I die, I will be immortal for as long as my genes survive somewhere (which they most probably will), and the molecules that make up "me" will become one with the universe again. This does not reek of "nothing" to me... =)

As for being egoistic - is that what you think atheists are?? How egoistic and prideful of you to think christians are better people...

Hey I like the whole "I am immortal because my matter will never be destroyed thing." It makes alot of sense and no sense at all. You could be comprised of Ceasers' used-ta-be butt cheeks. It is kinda funny to think that someone might be drinking the same water Jesus once drank. That was a good point.

I don't think serendipity was calling atheists egoistical. I think she meant that it is important to do whats right even if you don't believe in God. A "give-it-all-you-got" thing before you cease to be.

 

[Michali]

Or He hates it when we use common sense; take your pick.

Actually He'd rather you try not to. Common thought is bad because you'll never see God unless you think on another plane. On a spiritual plane.