Noah's Flood

[JohnR7]

Attached are some elevation maps of Armenia where the Bible says that Noahs ark landed. You will notice that the lowest spot in all of Armenia is something like 2000 feet above sea level. In the Bible Arafat and Armenia are both the same word.

The question is, how much water would it take to get the Ark to even Little Mount Arafat? In order to do this, how and where could the water be held in this area.

If this were a world wide flood, then to even get the Ark into the area would require the water level to raise up at least 2000 feet.

 

[panterapat]

How is it possible for the Red Sea to part?
How is it possible for a bush to burn but not be consumed?
How is it possible for the blind to see?
How is it possible for the dead to be called from their tomb?
How is it possible for Jesus to be ressurrected and save us from our sin???
It's all by the power of God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[armed2010]

How is it possible for the Red Sea to part?
How is it possible for a bush to burn but not be consumed?
How is it possible for the blind to see?
How is it possible for the dead to be called from their tomb?
How is it possible for Jesus to be ressurrected and save us from our sin???
It's all by the power of God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you have anything constructive to add to this post, or do you want to preach some more?

 

[panterapat]

I'm not preaching- I'm serious. Some things cannot be explained or need not be explained.

Do you think that God could create enough water and wind to float the ark onto mount Aratat?

 

[troodon]

I'm not preaching- I'm serious. Some things cannot be explained or need not be explained.

Do you think that God could create enough water and wind to float the ark onto mount Aratat?

Then why would God choose to destroy civilization with a physically impossible flood if He knows that in 4,000 years every one will know it was impossible?

 

[Philosoft]

Then why would God choose to destroy civilization with a physically impossible flood if He knows that in 4,000 years every one will know it was impossible?

And if God needs to miracle water into existence to drown everyone, why not just miracle everyone dead? Maybe he didn't want to deal with the cleanup and the bottoms of the oceans weren't being used...

 

[Siliconaut]

Plus, after he supposedly magicked those loads of water back and forth, he took great pains to rearrange all the evidence so it would cover up his misdeeds... but then goes and has it put in the bible as a late confession...

Truly mindboggling!

 

[Michali]

If there's one thing I like about you athiest, it is your ability to stay unified. Another thing I have seen is your ability to laugh your heads off at smart alek remarks thrown against the religion that has set down the basis for maintaining good and order in the world. Which you reap the benefits from today. We may be full of misunderstandable scripture, but cut us some slack. It is very anger swelling to hear blasphemous remarks against our -get this- Father. If you do not like the rude christians who rebuke you in your theories constantly, do not do the same to the whole group. Some of us like to search for the truth the same way you do. With an open mind at that.

About the flood, we have to consider how much water is stored up in the clouds and iceburgs *is that how you spell icebergs*. As well as the geology of the ocean floor. We see that now it has been cut away by under surface currents. It may have been at a raised state in comparison to now.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I'm not preaching- I'm serious. Some things cannot be explained or need not be explained.

Things such as earthquakes, lightning, plagues, and a whole host of other things that up until a few centuries ago, we couldn't expalin.

A God-of-the-gaps is a God of human ignorance.

Do you think that God could create enough water and wind to float the ark onto mount Aratat?

God could have overrun the world with a horde of English Sheepdogs, but that doesn't mean He did.

 

[Michali]

You people really are funny. You consider yourselves wise in your own eyes, but you haven't a clue as to why you do what you do. You don't believe there is meaning, so what keeps you going? Animal passion? Pride and power? When you attain these things, why have you gained it? You are your flesh. You are descedants of apes. You are not that reborn spirit trapped in the body of a man. Why do you do good when it comes at your own sacrifice to benefit another? What is the point of life in your life? You will die one day and there is nothing you can do about it. The wisdom in your world is this: To spontaneously combust with desire and do whatever feels good to you. If you die because of your actions... so what? Nothing has changed. The wisdom of the world is foolishness. If there were no God the other wise thing a man could do is to try to live forever. It is logically better to continue in a life-state than to enter an unknown state of nothingness. With a God the fabric of reality could actually exist. Not to mention that he has granted us a free gift of eternal life full of bliss. So long as we are willing to live with Him and one another.

 

[Vylo]

You consider yourselves wise in your own eyes, but you haven't a clue as to why you do what you do.

I can't speak for others, but I consider myself, and the vast majority of humanity to be very unwise. But hey I'm trying. I am constantly investigating why people do certain things froma sociological perspective, and I believe I am making some ground.

You don't believe there is meaning,

Not sure i follow you here, but I do believe there is meaning in the universe, just we are privy to that particular meaning.

so what keeps you going? Animal passion? Pride and power?

Good question, I think the everyday enjoyment of life, and the conquering of strife are good encouragement.

You are your flesh. You are descedants of apes.

At least we weren't decended from lizards, imagine what that would look like .

Why do you do good when it comes at your own sacrifice to benefit another?

Generalized Exchange. The theory that many of us do good things at our own expense with the expectation that others will do the same, and so eventually it will come back around to us.

The wisdom in your world is this: To spontaneously combust with desire and do whatever feels good to you

I don't think many of us are so rash, though I am prolly moreso then others.

If there were no God the other wise thing a man could do is to try to live forever. It is logically better to continue in a life-state than to enter an unknown state of nothingness.

True, I wouldn't mind immortality.

 

[goat37]

How is it possible for the Red Sea to part?
How is it possible for a bush to burn but not be consumed?
How is it possible for the blind to see?
How is it possible for the dead to be called from their tomb?
How is it possible for Jesus to be ressurrected and save us from our sin???
It's all by the power of God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How is it possible? It's not... because they DIDN'T HAPPEN!

 

[Michali]

Thank you for a polite reply. I was becoming angry at others for making fun of my Father. You misunderstood my pleasure combustion sentence though. I'm saying it would be wise for a man who didn't believe in any higher powers to do... what ever. If he suffers or gains or dies because of anything, then, it really doesn't matter because he has disturbed the great void of nothingness. If a man continues to live and conform to the way of things, then he is being a fool according to the wisdom of the Godless world. Without God there is no dividing line between Good and evil. Actions have no purpose or meaning. There is no stability in existence. With God, the meaning and prupose of all things can atleast be looked for. I believe in God, but I'm not only referring to God. I'm referring to spirituality in general. A Creator. Atleast something more than what is physical.

 

[goat37]

You people really are funny. You consider yourselves wise in your own eyes, but you haven't a clue as to why you do what you do. You don't believe there is meaning, so what keeps you going? Animal passion? Pride and power? When you attain these things, why have you gained it? You are your flesh. You are descedants of apes. You are not that reborn spirit trapped in the body of a man. Why do you do good when it comes at your own sacrifice to benefit another? What is the point of life in your life? You will die one day and there is nothing you can do about it. The wisdom in your world is this: To spontaneously combust with desire and do whatever feels good to you. If you die because of your actions... so what? Nothing has changed. The wisdom of the world is foolishness. If there were no God the other wise thing a man could do is to try to live forever. It is logically better to continue in a life-state than to enter an unknown state of nothingness. With a God the fabric of reality could actually exist. Not to mention that he has granted us a free gift of eternal life full of bliss. So long as we are willing to live with Him and one another.

Wow, this is one of the most ignorant posts that I've seen since the start of the weekend.

First, we aren't decendants from apes, but most likely had a common ancestor.

Second, you say that it is logically better to continue in a life-state than to enter an unknown state of nothingness.... That makes absolutely no sense. How is it logically better? We would feel better if it were that way, but it is not logically better by any means.

Why did you choose the xian God over any other God? Because it sounded the best to you? Because it was the easiest for you to live by? Get over yourself and your own ego and see the world for what it really is.
One of these days you should try to understand what it is you even believe, then try to find out why others believe what they do.
Until then, post your arrogance and ignorance some place else.

 

[goat37]

Thank you for a polite reply. I was becoming angry at others for making fun of my Father. You misunderstood my pleasure combustion sentence though. I'm saying it would be wise for a man who didn't believe in any higher powers to do... what ever. If he suffers or gains or dies because of anything, then, it really doesn't matter because he has disturbed the great void of nothingness. If a man continues to live and conform to the way of things, then he is being a fool according to the wisdom of the Godless world. Without God there is no dividing line between Good and evil. Actions have no purpose or meaning. There is no stability in existence. With God, the meaning and prupose of all things can atleast be looked for. I believe in God, but I'm not only referring to God. I'm referring to spirituality in general. A Creator. Atleast something more than what is physical.

So your belief has no other basis than your internal NEED for it to be true, because you refuse to accept the possibility that when we die we become 'nothing'.
You also make it sound like without God the world would be in complete anarchy, evil would run rampant... that is NOT true. I don't believe in God, yet I am a moral person, I do not kill or deliberately hurt anyone.

Who says that actions have to have purpose or meaning? Because you wouldn't feel comfortable in your life if YOU weren't something special in the eyes of an invisible God?

You sound too scared to NOT believe in God, because you are afraid to die.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Arguing over where the water came from is pointless. If God wanted to flood the Earth and required zapping a bunch of water into existance to do so, then there's little stopping Him. He can pretty much do as He wants.

But when one examines the Earth's geology (among other things), is there any evidence of the Earth being under water in recent history (~4500 years ago)? No.

So, it really doesn't matter arguing where the water came from. There's no evidence that that much water was ever present on the Earth in the first place.

 

[goat37]

Arguing over where the water came from is pointless. If God wanted to flood the Earth and required zapping a bunch of water into existance to do so, then there's little stopping Him. He can pretty much do as He wants.

But when one examines the Earth's geology (among other things), is there any evidence of the Earth being under water in recent history (~4500 years ago)? No.

So, it really doesn't matter arguing where the water came from. There's no evidence that that much water was ever present on the Earth in the first place.

True... and JohnR7 said that's where the Bible says the ark is.... Well, they haven't found the ark, have they? So until they do, there is no reason to even TRY to find a reason of how the water could have gotten up there.

No ark, no need to explain how the water got there.

 

[Michali]

Wow, this is one of the most ignorant posts that I've seen since the start of the weekend.

First, we aren't decendants from apes, but most likely had a common ancestor.

Second, you say that it is logically better to continue in a life-state than to enter an unknown state of nothingness.... That makes absolutely no sense. How is it logically better? We would feel better if it were that way, but it is not logically better by any means.

Why did you choose the xian God over any other God? Because it sounded the best to you? Because it was the easiest for you to live by? Get over yourself and your own ego and see the world for what it really is.
One of these days you should try to understand what it is you even believe, then try to find out why others believe what they do.
Until then, post your arrogance and ignorance some place else.

Dear freind. You seem to be a little unstable. Your brain must have realized the truth of the matter. Did it hurt a little? You prove that it is logically better to live than to die by being alive now with no belief in God. I chose no xian God or any God for that matter. I was rather chosen by God. I love him because he first loved me. Can the pot say to the potter you did not make me? "Get over yourself" you say. I atleast have found where I stand to be solid ground. I have seen this world and realized it to be impossible to exist without divine influence. If I want to help someone to find eternal life, I have to know what another man believes. And why are you telling me that at www.christianforums.com? Arrogance and ignorance? No, it is concern and contemplation.

 

[goat37]

Dear freind. You seem to be a little unstable. Your brain must have realized the truth of the matter. Did it hurt a little? You prove that it is logically better to live than to die by being alive now with no belief in God. I chose no xian God or any God for that matter. I was rather chosen by God. I love him because he first loved me. Can the pot say to the potter you did not make me? "Get over yourself" you say. I atleast have found where I stand to be solid ground. I have seen this world and realized it to be impossible to exist without divine influence. If I want to help someone to find eternal life, I have to know what another man believes. And why are you telling me that at www.christianforums.com? Arrogance and ignorance? No, it is concern and contemplation.

HAHA.. the truth of what matter? That you are self-deluded?

You step on toes when you claim that without God there would be no way to tell the difference between Good and Evil... that is WRONG.

You believe you are on solid ground? I disagree...
You have seen this world and realized it to be impossible.... Why? Looking at your other posts you didn't even know what evolution truly was... You see the world through your own subjective eyes and see what you want to see, and come up with an explanation for it based on what YOU want it to be... You have told me no truth, gave me no evidence, and no reason to trust anything that you say.

Why do I tell you this here at christan forums? Because I will call BS on anything that needs it. I would tell a teacher in their own classroom that they were wrong if they were... just because you are here at christian forums doesn't give you immunity from being called ignorant when your posts clearly show it.

Since you don't even understand what the agnostic/atheist position is, or understand what evolution is... you arent even worth the time to debate or even talk to.
Like me, don't like me, I don't care... but from what you post, I can't even respect you.

 

[JohnR7]

Arguing over where the water came from is pointless. If God wanted to flood the Earth and required zapping a bunch of water into existance to do so, then there's little stopping Him. He can pretty much do as He wants.

Actually, the Bible tells us where the water came from, under the ground. It is very common for lakes to be fed by an underground sourse of water. What I was wanting to look at is the geology of what physically would hold the water in, so as to create a flood.

I studied the elevation map and it looks to me like the only place that could have been flooded is Turkey and Armenia. There is a mountain pass toward the East, if it were blocked up, then a 2000+ foot deep lake would be real easy to create in this area.

I will attach a map of Azerbarjan that I think will show the mountain pass a little bit better. It is easy enough to see that if this pass were blocked than a flood or a lake would form that would meet the requirements of the flood story in the Bible.

As far as a world wide flood. That would require the whole world to be flooded with at least 5000 feet of water. This would put some of the Philippines islands underwater. As has been suggested before, the biodiversity of the Philippines is 10 times that of Darwins islands. There is strong evidence that these islands were not under water at this time.

http://www.fmnh.org/vanishing_treasures/Origins_3.htm