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Noahide Buddhism and Hinduism

Yusuphhai

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Under the Noahide laws, it is possible to assume that Hinduism and Buddhism are sufficiently monotheistic in principle for moral Hindus and Buddhist to enter the gentile’s gate into heaven. 諾亞律可視佛教為一神教只要它滿足倫理原則,以作為外邦進入天堂的大門。

Elijah Interfaith, Sharing Wisdom Fostering Peace #MakeFriends
Sharing Wisdom: Wisdom of Rabbi Adin Steinsalz
Peace without Conciliation: The Irrelevance of "Toleration" in Judaism
From: Common Knowledge
Volume 11, Issue 1, Winter 2005
pp. 41-47 |
In lieu of an abstract, here is a brief excerpt of the content:
The Irrelevance of "Toleration" in Judaism

By the standards of Jewish law as applied to Jews, Hinduism (and Buddhism) do not count as monotheistic traditions. 按照給猶太人的猶太律法,佛教不算一神教。However, the essential point of the Noahide laws is that the standards of Jewish law do not apply to non-Jews. 但是諾亞律的精華在於猶太法不適用外邦。Radically pure monotheism is expected by Judaism only from Jews. 嚴格一神僅限於猶太。The Noahide laws do not preclude gentile religions from developing softer, more complex, and compromised forms of monotheism. 諾亞律不排除外教發展更加溫和微妙妥協的一神觀。Under the Noahide laws, it is possible to assume that Hinduism and Buddhism are sufficiently monotheistic in principle for moral Hindus and Buddhist to enter the gentile’s gate into heaven. Jewish law regards the compromises made or tolerated by the world’s major religions as ways of rendering essentially monotheistic theologies easier in practice for large populations of adherents. The fierceness of Islamic opposition to such compromises has no counterpart in Judaism. In Islam, it is seriously blasphemous for anyone of whatever faith to combine belief in the one God with popular ideas about other heavenly powers or with subtle theological doctrines such as the Trinity. Islam cannot tolerate such compromises because the truth that they violate is applicable universally and not simply to Muslins. The problem is that Islam is radically monotheistic (like Judaism) yet is also (unlike Judaism, which is the religion of one people) universalistic as well.

Is Buddhism Kosher?
Is Buddhism Kosher?佛教是潔淨的嗎?
Question: I would be interested in your view regarding Buddhism. For example, do you believe that all Buddhists are nothing more than idol worshippers and that they must be converted to follow the Seven Noahide Laws, and/or do you feel that that there is something of value in Buddhist methods for spiritual cultivation?

Answer By Tzvi Freeman
You will find throughout our people's history a process by which some elements of alien cultures are adopted while others are rejected. Not a very formalized process — the rules are rather vague and tenuous — but nevertheless successful in avoiding the syncretism that has dissolved other cultures while imbibing all that is good from the world about us. You will find distinct traces of ancient Egypt, Babylonia, Athens, Rome, Persia, Cordoba, Istanbul, Florence and every other civilization in which Jews have lived. But you'll only find those aspects which are in confluence with the body and soul of Torah. The rest we spat up like ipecac.

Interestingly, as much as we took from those alien cultures, they were even more affected than we were.

Today, this refinement process is extending to Buddhism. Many Jews began their spiritual trek with the path of Buddha and continued by discovering their own heritage in Torah. A twofold process occurs: Buddhism has evolved more in the past thirty years than in all its history before, to the point that what is presented today in America as Buddhism is already more Jewish than it is Buddhist. And, secondly, when those practicing "Jubus" return to Jewish practice, they reject those aspects that are anathematic to Torah, while making good use of those aspects that are complimentary.

Many of the Buddhist practices and world-concepts are in direct opposition to the Torah concept of singular Divine providence. When it comes to Tibetan rites, for example, Shamanism abounds. Even if the intellectual Buddhist conceives of these notions in a highly abstract fashion, they are still the notions of idolatry against which our father Abraham struggled. For a Jew to burn incense in front of a statue is horrifying, no matter what he will say are his inner intents. Similarly, the proclamation, "In Buddha I find refuge" is a catastrophe for the Jewish soul.

On the other hand, the mental rigor and personal discipline of these practices have proven of great benefit to many in their praying and meditation (both of which are organic to Judaism). Furthermore, it is likely that the essential teachings of the original teacher who is now called Buddha contain much of the ancient wisdom that was lost. Buddha lived at the time of the Babylonian Exile, as did Lao Tse (according to some historians) and Pythagoras. At that time, the Jews were deliberately transported to the frontiers of the Persian Empire. Along with them, they took their Torah knowledge and undoubtedly spread it to others. Perhaps we are now only sifting Solomon's lost jewels out of the mud in which they have been buried for two and a half millennia. On this, read The Palace & the Pigeons.

As for those who were born into Buddhist culture, I believe that they will find a particular path within the framework of the Noahide guidelines that leads them to the truth within their own heritage. In fact, I see at least one group in Japan quite close to this already.

I hope this helps. Please write if you feel there is something I have missed out.

What is Mantra?

Gen 25:6 but to the sons of Abraham’s concubines, Abraham gave gifts. He sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, to the east country.

gifts:
H4979
מתּנה
mattânâh
mat-taw-naw'
Feminine of H4976; a present; specifically (in a good sense) a sacrificial offering, (in a bad sense) a bribe: - gift.
 
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CodyFaith

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"Noahide laws" cannot save Gentiles. Gentiles can only be saved by trusting in the blood of Jesus to atone for their sin, just as Jews can only be saved the same way.

This Talmudic concept is false.
 
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Yusuphhai

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"Noahide laws" cannot save Gentiles. Gentiles can only be saved by trusting in the blood of Jesus to atone for their sin, just as Jews can only be saved the same way.

This Talmudic concept is false.
Noahide Law can not save, but it is a principle for all mankind. If one believe in Yeshua, he should not sin against God’s law. Talmud has wrong part, but it is still a kind of senior spirit.

To a Buddhist, need tell him where is wrong, but not simply say “you are an idol worshiper” At least Noahidism offers a friendly way for the relationship with Buddhist. What is the way of Christianity? I have talked to Buddhist. If he doesn’t want to talk about Christianity, Noahide Buddhism could be a topic. I agree without Yeshua’s blood no salvation. But some national spirits are good and unique. If Christianity is more fair and humble to other religions and other nations, distrust and Resistance assimilation will be less. If Yeshua is not quite Jewish and does not know the cultures of the whole world, I would not trust him.
 
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Yusuphhai

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MMMM. YELL OUT BHUDDA, ALLAH..OR ANYTHING HINDU OR ANY OTHER IN YOUR DREAMS.!!!..YOU WILL BE TORN APART BY DEMONS,,THEY ONLY KNOW AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE WORD JESUS!!!, IN THE NAME OF JESUS I CAST YOU AWAY,, IN THE NAME OF JESUS.. BEGONE DEMON...SATAN HAS TOLD ME WHEN I ASKED. HE CONTROLS ALL OTHERS, EXCEPT THE TRINITY...GOD OUR FATHER. IN HEAVEN,,JESUS THE BELOVED SON. AND THE HOLY SPIRIT,,AND HOLY HELPERS... AND BE VERY CAREFUL SATAN CALLS HIMSELF FATHER,,,!!!! HIS DEMONS CALL HIM FATHER,,,HE CAN PORTRAY FALSE LIGHT,,AND FALSE BEING OF LIGHT,,(TEST THE SPIRITS BEFORE YOU..AMEN..(MMM, I HERE GROWLING IN MY HEAD AT A DISTANCE)...

This is not Noahide buddhism or Hinduism. See the first post.
 
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Yusuphhai

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I am favorite to Hindu Mantra through Buddhist music. This is a main way to build the bridge between Noahidism and Buddhism &Hinduism presently. Maybe it has some heritage from Abrahamic Monotheism. Abraham gave his sons from Keturah spiritual gifts, then sent them toward East. Maybe one tribe moved to India. “Brahman” sounds a little like “Abraham”. Buddhism the new branch effects Eastern Asia much. The Hindu spirit is so quite unique and national that other nations could not learn much. Much Sanskrit could not be translated into other languages well. Mantra means spirit can be away from unnecessary thoughts and annoyance. Just listen to Mantra, need not translate, it is still effective, as medical Mantra does. Because no translation, the tendency toward idol worship of Hindu Mantra can be filtered. Learning Hindu and Buddhist空性(the unique Hindu spirit, a little like “rest” )is a pleasant travel back to look for hidden treasures from Abrahamic Oriental heritage. This can explain why so many American Jewish are learning from it.
 
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straykat

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I am favorite to Hindu Mantra through Buddhist music. This is a main way to build the bridge between Noahidism and Buddhism &Hinduism presently. Maybe it has some heritage from Abrahamic Monotheism. Abraham gave his sons from Keturah spiritual gifts, then sent them toward East. Maybe one tribe moved to India. “Brahman” sounds a little like “Abraham”. Buddhism the new branch effects Eastern Asia much. The Hindu spirit is so quite unique and national that other nations could not learn much. Much Sanskrit could not be translated into other languages well. Mantra means spirit can be away from unnecessary thoughts and annoyance. Just listen to Mantra, need not translate, it is still effective, as medical Mantra does. Because no translation, the tendency toward idol worship of Hindu Mantra can be filtered. Learning Hindu and Buddhist空性(the unique Hindu spirit, a little like “rest” )is a pleasant travel back to look for hidden treasures from Abrahamic Oriental heritage. This can explain why so many American Jewish are learning from it.

I can't imagine Abraham had anything to do with Eastern thought. They talk of impersonal dieties and nothingness and of ultimate goals of losing oneself in the "One". Abraham had a personal relationship with God. Not one where he lost his identity like some guru would teach.

If any Jewish are learning from it, it's because they are influenced by Kabbalah - which is itself based on the same concepts of impersonal unity in the One.. of gnostic notions that we were all preexistent souls who "split" from God and live out an existence here on earth that we weren't meant for (for example, the Kabbalist teaching that Adam and Eve/Chava were once heavenly before existence here on earth). Like Gnostics, the purpose of life for them is meant to go back to the "One" and become lost in this unity. Almost everyone, be it Kabbalah, Gnosticism, or the East teach this loss of identity in the divine.

Except ancient Israel and Christianity.

I smell a rat here. Or maybe I should say a serpent. "You will become like God..."
 
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Yusuphhai

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I can't imagine Abraham had anything to do with Eastern thought. They talk of impersonal dieties and nothingness and of ultimate goals of losing oneself in the "One". Abraham had a personal relationship with God. Not one where he lost his identity like some guru would teach.
The relationship between Abrahamic Monotheism and the religion of his Eastern descends is from Jewish scholars’ research (e.g. Rabbi Adin Steinsalz). Abrahamic and Non-Abrahamic descends can accept Monotheism only through Abrahamic Monotheism.

If any Jewish are learning from it, it's because they are influenced by Kabbalah - which is itself based on the same concepts of impersonal unity in the One.. of gnostic notions that we were all preexistent souls who "split" from God and live out an existence here on earth that we weren't meant for (for example, the Kabbalist teaching that Adam and Eve/Chava were once heavenly before existence here on earth). Like Gnostics, the purpose of life for them is meant to go back to the "One" and become lost in this unity. Almost everyone, be it Kabbalah, Gnosticism, or the East teach this loss of identity in the divine.
Not many Jewish are studying Kabbalah. Buddhist Mantra is usually used for “deleting “ unnecessary thoughts and annoyance but not helping consolidate the opinion of Monotheism by Jewish Buddhist. In Hindu and Oriental culture, the Opposition of “One” and “Non-One” can be not existence. Gnostic notions were not from Jewish or Eastern.

Except ancient Israel and Christianity.
Modern Judaism and Noahidism is not Monotheism? I am a member of Messianic Judaism, I know the meaning of Christianity and Christian in the meaning of Antioch.

I smell a rat here. Or maybe I should say a serpent. "You will become like God..."
This is very aggressive. Do you mean only me or Eastern or Jewish are “Rat” or “Serpent”? This sentence is yours, I don’t accept this “gift”.
 
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straykat

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This is very aggressive. Do you mean only me or Eastern or Jewish are “Rat” or “Serpent”? This sentence is yours, I don’t accept this “gift”.

I was referring to the widespread notion (across gnosticism as well as the East) that we were all originally part of the One.. and we must lose ourselves in becoming part of the One again. This sounds like it originally came from the serpent, but a different spin on it. It's yet another promise to "be like God".

I'm just saying we are but creatures and will forever be learning about God. But that is still great cause for rejoicing. I don't understand the allure of these other religions that promise more than that (and mind you, half of my family are Buddhist.. and I still have to be dismissive, despite familial sympathies).
 
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Yusuphhai

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I was referring to the widespread notion (across gnosticism as well as the East) that we were all originally part of the One.. and we must lose ourselves in becoming part of the One again. This sounds like it originally came from the serpent, but a different spin on it. It's yet another promise to "be like God".

I'm just saying we are but creatures and will forever be learning about God. But that is still great cause for rejoicing. I don't understand the allure of these other religions that promise more than that (and mind you, half of my family are Buddhist.. and I still have to be dismissive, despite familial sympathies).

In Jewish opinion, first, God and His creatures are separated (non-One). Another way, God can live in believers (One). But the two opposite ways could be united. In Hindu and Oriental opinion the opposition of One and non-One can not exist. As in one road ,many cars are rushing normally, because one road has two lines, opposite direction driving does not make traffic accident.

Pray for your family, talking with Buddhist can be a pleasant long journey.
 
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straykat

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In Jewish opinion, first, God and His creatures are separated (non-One). Another way, God can live in believers (One).

Indeed, but this is through following Christ and having the Holy Spirit. Not through the "emptying" philosophy of the East. I honestly don't know about "Noahide" philosophy, so I only disagree with the other notions I mentioned, pertaining to emptiness. Or various new age doctrines that have popped up, inspired by this.. where they teach we are all "part of the Christ mind" and other nonsense. It's the allure of the serpent all over again. They want all of the gifts of the Spirit and divine, but don't want to give God precedence or the glory.

What does Christ tell us? "The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord."
 
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Bumble Bee

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MOD HAT ON
This thread has been moved from "Debate Other Religions and Faiths" to "Christianity and World Religions" as it was discussing rather than debating other religions.
MOD HAT OFF
 
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Yusuphhai

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Indeed, but this is through following Christ and having the Holy Spirit. Not through the "emptying" philosophy of the East. I honestly don't know about "Noahide" philosophy, so I only disagree with the other notions I mentioned, pertaining to emptiness. Or various new age doctrines that have popped up, inspired by this.. where they teach we are all "part of the Christ mind" and other nonsense. It's the allure of the serpent all over again. They want all of the gifts of the Spirit and divine, but don't want to give God precedence or the glory.

What does Christ tell us? "The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord."

Yeah Christ rules everything. He knows every culture of the world. He sends many angels to manage all the nations. Every nation is unique, has own special spiritual character. I have ever learnt a little different cultures, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Western, Jewish, Arabic, Hindu. There is a hard balance between Western and Eastern to me. How to Resist assimilation is a problem. Noahidism is not a way for Jewish Gospel, driving in an opposite direction. But everything is God’s tool. Noahidism is helping Messianism to drill through the tunnel from the opposite direction for All mankind’s Gospel.

Eastern philosophy and religions have many mistakes and shortages, so they need the direction from strict Monotheism, need go back to Abrahamic root of Faith through Christ. So we Eastern need to know which part of Eastern thoughts should be inherited and which part should be forsaken, as the Greek 、Latin、and North Europeans did.

Hindu &Buddhist Mantra is poisonous, it has idol worship part. The Pure Land School (a branch of Buddhism,净土宗) thinks when a man starts thinking, his thoughts are Delusions. If he pay attention to the Name of a Buddha, his thoughts are still Delusions. But these Delusions are lighter and can overcome the heavier Delusions. Use a lighter poison to attack another heavier poison can be effective. The special Maggots can be used to clean up Rotten human flesh in medical treatment. So just listen to Mantra, don’t need translation , the idol worship part can be filtered. Mantra means “Be free”, not “emptiness”. If don’t like Buddhist Mantra, can use Christian Mantra (eg. A music) instead. A Hindu Mathematician said in the formula he found there is a Hindu Angel managing. Hindu’s level of 空性(Sunyata, “rest”) is the first of the world. The number “0”was invented by Indian. It is so meaningful but not only means “nothing”. Meeting or not meeting a Hindu Angel is freedom.
 
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ananda

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The final goal for Buddhists is not heaven (a place), but the cessation of suffering (a state of mind and consciousness). As a Buddhist, when I bow to a Buddha statue or offer incense, it is not done to worship it as an idol or god; the main purpose is to cultivate positive, skillful states of mind and consciousness in myself.
 
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Hindu &Buddhist Mantra is poisonous, it has idol worship part.

The Pure Land mantra (nembutsu) is quite an effective tool for salvation if that's what you're after. Much easier then the Christian salvation idea. When I did that I didn't discover any idol worship or poison. I suppose everyone's mileage may very.

I'm don't subscribe to 'salvation' ideas currently so just do zazen, which is a form of zen sitting meditation.
 
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Rajni

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MMMM. YELL OUT BHUDDA, ALLAH..OR ANYTHING HINDU OR ANY OTHER IN YOUR DREAMS.!!!..YOU WILL BE TORN APART BY DEMONS,,THEY ONLY KNOW AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE WORD JESUS!!!, IN THE NAME OF JESUS I CAST YOU AWAY,, IN THE NAME OF JESUS.. BEGONE DEMON...SATAN HAS TOLD ME WHEN I ASKED. HE CONTROLS ALL OTHERS, EXCEPT THE TRINITY...GOD OUR FATHER. IN HEAVEN,,JESUS THE BELOVED SON. AND THE HOLY SPIRIT,,AND HOLY HELPERS... AND BE VERY CAREFUL SATAN CALLS HIMSELF FATHER,,,!!!! HIS DEMONS CALL HIM FATHER,,,HE CAN PORTRAY FALSE LIGHT,,AND FALSE BEING OF LIGHT,,(TEST THE SPIRITS BEFORE YOU..AMEN..(MMM, I HERE GROWLING IN MY HEAD AT A DISTANCE)...
Why are you yelling?
 
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Rajni

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Like Gnostics, the purpose of life for them is meant to go back to the "One" and become lost in this unity. Almost everyone, be it Kabbalah, Gnosticism, or the East teach this loss of identity in the divine.
This is one thing I don't think I'll ever be able to accept -- the non-dual concept of being one and the same with God (called "Advaita Vedanta" in Hinduism).

I could be wrong in feeling this way, but I want God to be "other" so I can enjoy a relationship with Him as an individual person. I think two entities can be united as one without losing their individuality.
 
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Yusuphhai

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@Yusuphhai

The final goal for Buddhists is not heaven (a place), but the cessation of suffering (a state of mind and consciousness). As a Buddhist, when I bow to a Buddha statue or offer incense, it is not done to worship it as an idol or god; the main purpose is to cultivate positive, skillful states of mind and consciousness in myself.
The history of Brahmanism and Buddhism is complex. There were three main gods in Brahmanism, many elements of Monotheism had been lost. Sakyamuni did not worship them. But who should be worshiped? Sakyamuni himself? No. Since It was not clear, Keeping in a philosophy level was ok. So some think Buddhism is an Atheism. In Jewish research Hindu& Buddhist Mantra has some hidden unclear elements of Abrahamic Monotheism. In Jewish wisdom, Sakyamuni is described as a kabala without hat. Early Buddhism nearly had no “idol”. What is the meaning of idol? It is obstacle to the Only God, whether can be seen or not. Later Mahayana(大乘佛教) appeared. Believers started to worship Sakyamuni and other Buddhas.

Sakyamuni had great compassion to all mankind. Being a Buddha means deeper suffering into other’s heart but mind and consciousness is enlightened.
 
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Yusuphhai

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The Pure Land mantra (nembutsu) is quite an effective tool for salvation if that's what you're after. Much easier then the Christian salvation idea. When I did that I didn't discover any idol worship or poison. I suppose everyone's mileage may very.

I'm don't subscribe to 'salvation' ideas currently so just do zazen, which is a form of zen sitting meditation.
Personally I am a “zener”. This word(禅) does not only belong to Buddhism, it can be a “skill” applying in many religions. It can live in a very modern society, e.g. Japanese Zen. Usually Buddhist Zen need support from other Branches of Buddhism, e.g. Pure Land(净土宗), Law Sect(律宗). Without laws and Attention to good things, zen can be a flying bird to unknown dangerous places. Zen also need to be “saved”. To me “Christ zen” and “Jewish zen”can be practicable.

The word “poisonous” can also be good thing. Jesus Christ can be symbolized by (bronze) Snake, which burdens cursing to Israelite and mankind. Then Healings come. Amitayus Buddha(阿弥陀佛) appeared centuries later after Sakyamuni, his “salvation”is not as the same level as Jesus Christ.

Eastern Asian zen is only in a lower level comparing with Hindu zen. But it can be a business
Card to tell the whole world who is Eastern Asian.
 
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