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'No Vancancy'
- Thread starter cvanwey
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Chriliman
Everything I need to be joyful is right here
- May 22, 2015
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Isaiah 9:7
“Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.“
Luke 1:33
“and he will reign over Jacob's descendants forever; his kingdom will never end."
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Nihilist Virus
Infectious idea
But you understand the difference between infinite space and infinite time, right? The OP is discussing the former and you're referencing the latter.
Furthermore, what's wrong with just answering the hypothetical? Or how about this: there's no issue of finite space in heaven, and nothing is theologically different about your religion, but it turns out you're a soulless android with artificial intelligence. Would you still follow the way of the Lord, knowing there'd be no difference one way or another?
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Chriliman
Everything I need to be joyful is right here
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Space/time is interlocked, but I’d like to hear your explanation of what the difference is.
If I was a souless AI, I wouldn’t have meaningful experience anyway so no I wouldn’t follow that lord.
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Nihilist Virus
Infectious idea
Ok... as for space and time, while it's impossible to have one without the other, it is possible to have an infinite region of space that exists only temporarily or, conversely, a finite region of space that exists forever. I see no reason for these ideas to be fundamentally impossible. As I noted, the OP is remarking on the former and you're addressing the latter with your scriptures. So you didn't truly address his question.
As for AI not having a meaningful experience, I'm disappointed you went there. First, it's not undisputed that your position is the case. Second, it's a hypothetical and you're refusing to answer. Third, you could easily rephrase it to your liking by considering a gorilla that has learned, through sign language, the core concepts of the gospel who is then told that he has no soul.
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- May 10, 2018
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Okay.
Now can you answer the question? Would you follow a God whom you knew exists, asks you to follow His commandments, but was not going to provide you with an afterlife?
It's a very basic point. And I think you are smart enough to get the gist and point of the question, (w/o instead trying to find minor errors in the premise).
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Chriliman
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I said I wouldn’t follow a lord who promises everlasting life only to pull the rug out from under you when you think you’ve received the promise.
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Okay, I get that. Now one more question, purely out of interest...
Say, all along, you KNEW Yahweh existed. And that Yahweh provided commandments, wanted all to follow them, but provided no eternal consequences. I.E. When you die, your dead. Would you follow them?
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Silmarien
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Could you frame these hypotheticals in a way that doesn't rely upon divine command theory? Your picture is so tyrannical and arbitrary right now that I wouldn't necessarily follow the commandments even with eternal consequences.
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Yes, to both this the the original OP. I've never been much of a long term planner, the promise of an after-life has never been a motivator to me being Christian. Though to me honest I would probably be a bit resentful of those who got in before the gates closed...of course on the other hand Hell is full too and I'm far less than perfect.
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Chriliman
Everything I need to be joyful is right here
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Well, whether or not we follow his commandments can have an effect on our lives now, not just after death. So it would depend what the effect is for either following or not following. Generally, following Gods ways leads to fulfilling relationship and overflowing hope and love, which can be experienced now. Not following leads to waywardness and hopelessness, trust me, I’ve been there. That’s how I understand it, from my experience anyway.
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- May 10, 2018
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I feel the subtlety of my last response was missing or lost
My ultimate point, or conclusion under Christianity, is kind of simple. It demonstrates that one is either to receive a reward or punishment in the afterlife, based upon their belief and/or actions in the conclusion of this life - as this resolution is clearly inferred from the Bible itself.My hypothetical then asks the following, in so many words...
If it was universally known that Yahweh exists. If it was also universally understood that Yahweh wishes for humans to follow His commandments. If it was also universally known Yahweh wishes for you to seek a relationship with Him. And yet, if it was also understood, all along, there instead exists no afterlife, would many humans bother seeking a relationship and following God's word?
In another topic (Is Belief a Choice), I made a side comment about 'selfishness'. My point was mentioned in passing. And yet, rather than addressing the heart of the other topic, they instead wanted further clarification for this term. So I then created this topic to address further.
In conclusion, to answer the above underlined question with a (yes or no), appears fairly simple.
Most might answer 'no'. In such a case, it may be fairly safe to surmise such an answer indicates 'selfishness', as the choice means that without the result of a reward or punishment, the effort to follow such a known agent becomes superfluous.
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