Amen. Romans 10:9-19 are good proofs. Why would God provoke Israel to jealousy if they didn't have a free will to choose to believe? Why would he say we need to hear and believe and confess?
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You know, its funny, in nearly 51 years I have never met one single "Christian" who told me that they were walking one day and all of a sudden decided on thier own "free will" to accept, believe, and repent.
God Bless
Till all are one.
Amen. Romans 10:9-19 are good proofs. Why would God provoke Israel to jealousy if they didn't have a free will to choose to believe? Why would he say we need to hear and believe and confess?Romans 10:14
^ all of a sudden a new poster arrives ..... Mmmmmmmm number of posts 1
Amen. Romans 10:9-19 are good proofs. Why would God provoke Israel to jealousy if they didn't have a free will to choose to believe? Why would he say we need to hear and believe and confess?
Yeh still not really an answer , are humans Ok if they need saving ?
I have to leave now cos her upstairs has decreed.
In a nutshell here is where I am.
I am convinced that man must have some real free will. Not enough to upset God's ultimate plan. Not enough to save himself either.
I am biased cos although I am a lowly engineer I have a good grasp of maths which prove ( absolutely proves) parodox in the most surprising and simple way. Hence I believe God can give man some genuine free will with no risk.
Ill post again but :
1. God bless you all.
2. Cygnus, what do you think of pear cider ?
I see it somewhat differently. God intervenes when we ask him to. We have not because we ask not.Ok, so I was being cheeky! My view is that:
(1) God not only created this world ex nihilo but can (and at times does) intervene unilaterally in earthly affairs.
God can do anything he wants, but he gave us free will. If he overrides our free will it would be for a serious situation, like Jonah preaching to Nineveh. Normally he wouldn't override our free-will.(2) God chose to create us with incompatibilistic (libertarian) freedom – freedom over which he cannot exercise total control.
Agreed.(3) God so values freedom – the moral integrity of free creatures and a world in which such integrity is possible – that he does not normally override such freedom, even if he sees that it is producing undesirable results.
Agreed.(4) God always desires our highest good, both individually and corporately, and thus is affected by what happens in our lives.
God knows everything before it happens, but gave us free-will. If we create a free-will mess in a situation, we can repent and use our free-will to get his wisdom on what to do from now on. God meant for us to use our free-will to seek and worship him, not be independently stupid.(5) God does not posses exhaustive knowledge of exactly how we utilize our freedom, although he may well at times be able to predict with great accuracy the choices we will freely make.
Sure they are , if left unsaved , it is themselves that are doomed ......
I hold to scripture
Freedom , means freedom from something .... Specifics help
Oh no he didn't ...... Only some steps are foreordained
It's the unforeordained steps you gotta watch out for
Neither does free will. Free will was given to Adam. Where was it revoked? Divine Grace was given to Adam before and after he used his free will to believe the devil rather than God. Grace and free will have been available to all since the day Adam was created."Use of means "
Divine Providence doesn't occur in a vacuum
True but most Christians use their free will to accept the grace of God offered to them so they can accept, believe and repent. Some Christians rejected this grace more than once before finally accepting this grace of God to accept, believe and repent. I've heard many of both types of testimonies.
Romans 10:14
If God ordains everything that shall ever come to pass, then man has NO free will at all, yet you say he does.
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