No sexual rerlations before marriage - who here did that?

[benedictaoo]

Very simple - sexuality is an important part within a relationship, apart from love, understanding, respect etc.

Imagine you find out on your wedding night, or the weeks and months beyond, that you are not compatible sexually. What a horrible situation that would be! Men might go to a brothel, but what are women supposed to do? Suppress their desires for intimate and loving closeness?

If you can find out before you intend to bind yourself permanently (and I mostly hope that marriages are well thought through and last a long time!), I am all for it!

BTW - I'm not one who supports hopping through bed indiscriminately!

If you're not compatible sexually, you can always learn to be through communication and commitment.

In the long run, its love that binds, not sex. I could not imagine choosing your life's partner based on sexual compatibility.

 

[Gwendolyn]

We get it, you disagree with the Catholic Church's teaching on sex. Straight, gay, married, not married, we get it.

Not just the Church's teaching on sex - the Christian teaching on sex as it has been for 2000 years.

 

[BAFRIEND]

the same people who believe it is okay in hindsight are the same ones who will tell their friends, daughters, and sisters that it is okay to go ahead and get that abortion

 

[JoabAnias]

Not just the Church's teaching on sex - the Christian teaching on sex as it has been for 2000 years.

Good point.

Romans [11] And that knowing the season; that it is now the hour for us to rise from sleep. For now our salvation is nearer than when we believed. [12] The night is passed, and the day is at hand. Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and put on the armour of light. [13] Let us walk honestly, as in the day: not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and impurities, not in contention and envy: [14] But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh in its concupiscences.

 

[Rochir]

Love is primarily a choice. It is a commitment. It is not how "compatible" people are sexually, whatever this means.

Alas, I disagree! Since intimacy is a large part of whom we love, sexual compatability is important. If one patner prefers sex in such and such a way, and the other doesn't - their relationship can very easily end up being miserable.

 

[Rochir]

the same people who believe it is okay in hindsight are the same ones who will tell their friends, daughters, and sisters that it is okay to go ahead and get that abortion

Correct! As will you tell your friends, daughters and sisters not to have an abortion! Based on your believes, as others base theirs upon their believes.



And again thanks for the (mostly) civil and educating responses!

 

[benedictaoo]

Not just the Church's teaching on sex - the Christian teaching on sex as it has been for 2000 years.

yeah. The Unitarian teachings are out of the loop if they are teaching pl sex and (other stuff) outside of marriage is okay.

These are fundamental universal mainstream Christian no-no's.

Fornication

sex sex- sex and marriages

Abortion

all of these are mainstream Christian teachings and beliefs based on what the bible teaches.

 

[benedictaoo]

Alas, I disagree! Since intimacy is a large part of whom we love, sexual compatability is important. If one patner prefers sex in such and such a way, and the other doesn't - their relationship can very easily end up being miserable.

Not true. Simply not true.

There is nothing worse then having sex with a person you don't love.

There is no compatibility with out love.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Correct! As will you tell your friends, daughters and sisters not to have an abortion! Based on your believes, as others base theirs upon their believes.

yeah, well i have learned that there are a lot of people who believe it is okay to murder a baby and choose to call it by another name

 

[Rebekka]

If you're not compatible sexually, you can always learn to be through communication and commitment.

In the long run, its love that binds, not sex. I could not imagine choosing your life's partner based on sexual compatibility.

I know that many people always defend premarital sex because "how else can you discover whether you're sexually compatible?"

What does sexual compatibility mean anyway? I find it such a vague notion. I can't imagine choosing a spouse based on sexual compatibility, either.





And to answer your question Rochir, I did wait. I was agnostic for most of my teens and twenties but still I waited because I've always believed in chastity, monogamy and fidelity, and I'm glad that I waited. My husband, who didn't wait, wishes he had waited, too.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

Very simple - sexuality is an important part within a relationship, apart from love, understanding, respect etc.

Imagine you find out on your wedding night, or the weeks and months beyond, that you are not compatible sexually. What a horrible situation that would be! Men might go to a brothel, but what are women supposed to do? Suppress their desires for intimate and loving closeness?

If you can find out before you intend to bind yourself permanently (and I mostly hope that marriages are well thought through and last a long time!), I am all for it!

BTW - I'm not one who supports hopping through bed indiscriminately!

Sex makes babies. Therefore sex can only be morally engaged in where there is a situation that a child can be raised properly -- that is, a stable, healthy, marriage. To engage in sex outside of marriage -- whether fornication or adultery -- is contrary to the common good, therefore it is a sin.

What is "sexual incompatibility"? Tab A, Slot B -- seems pretty compatible to me. Everything else takes hard work to get to know the other person before it actually becomes good sex. But that's just part of the relationship, it takes probably a year before sex actually becomes good. That's my experience in dating before becoming Catholic. Do you really think that there are people who are emotionally but not sexually compatible? What exactly is sexual incompatibility? To me, that would mean an inability to engage in the marital act, which of course, means the marriage isn't consummated. Sex is 90% emotional, 10% physical; I've never had a problem overcoming physical limitations with any of the men I've been with. Could I just happen to fall in love with a man and marry him only to find out Tab A is in no way going to fit in Slot B? I guess, but that seems very highly unlikely and something that can be overcome. After all, Tab A is never going to be bigger than a baby...

Hence, "sexual incompatibility" to me seems an ill-defined and highly unlikely scenario.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

And it's even harder if you loved the person you were intimate with before marriage, and then you break up. Even if you confess and are forgiven by the Lord, those scars and the sadness stay with you the rest of your life. You can push it down into your subconscious, but it will come back when you least expect it, when you see or hear something that reminds you of that person. You bring all of that baggage into your later marriage, whether you realize it or not. Am speaking from experience.

I find that is very true. I think I have some connection to every person I've ever slept with. Certainly, when I was in love with that person, breaking up is hard to do -- especially if you've slept together.

I know I am going to bring a lot of baggage into my future (hypothetical) marriage.

There's a part from "Rent" (at the end of "La Vie Boheme") that goes:

Roger: No one's perfect, I've got baggage
Mimi: Life's too short, babe time is flying / I'm looking for baggage that goes with mine
Roger: I should tell you
Mimi: I've got baggage too
Roger: I should tell you

Of course, their mutual baggage is the fact that they both have AIDS but haven't told each other yet (until one second later, when Roger's beeper goes off to remind him to take his AZT pills and she recognizes what it's for so then they get together because they don't have that fear of hiding it anymore and have found someone to commiserate with).

I don't have AIDS but I certainly have a lot of baggage. So too, I suppose, would anyone I will marry -- especially at this point in the game. All of us have made mistakes in life. I used to say that I regret nothing, that I don't make mistakes, I just have learning experiences. But now that I'm older (and Catholic), I realize that most of my life has seemed to be a series of mistakes one after another and I don't know how to make it right.

We're kind of all damaged goods in one way or another. I'm just looking for someone who is willing to put up with my baggage and love me anyway.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

consistency is not a virtue.

As far as how you act, act anyway you want.

but is there human merit in be consistent? I don't know... but consistency is not one of the Christan virtues, not cardinal, not theological- its not a virtue.

Being consistent really has no bearing on anything.

What does consistency form? A habit.

What is a virtue? A good habit. What is a vice? A bad habit.

Virtue is formed by acting consistently good.
Vice is formed by acting consistently bad.

So thus consistency in and of itself is neither good nor bad but can be either, depending on what you are consistently doing. If you are consistently giving money to the poor, that is good. If you are consistently beating your wife, that is bad.

 

[Rhamiel]

What does consistency form? A habit.

What is a virtue? A good habit. What is a vice? A bad habit.

Virtue is formed by acting consistently good.
Vice is formed by acting consistently bad.

So thus consistency in and of itself is neither good nor bad but can be either, depending on what you are consistently doing. If you are consistently giving money to the poor, that is good. If you are consistently beating your wife, that is bad.

well said

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

Alas, I disagree! Since intimacy is a large part of whom we love, sexual compatability is important. If one patner prefers sex in such and such a way, and the other doesn't - their relationship can very easily end up being miserable.

I still don't understand what you mean. So one person prefers the lights on, the other prefers the lights off? One prefers sex in the morning (which indeed can be really annoying when I'm like, "Just let me sleep! I don't want to wake up yet!"), the other at night? Those seem very silly things to make or break a marriage. Is it really going to make your life miserable if your husband always bugs you for sex before going off to work in the morning?

Why do guys want sex in the morning? Do I seriously look attractive with my hair all messy and my bad breath and being mostly asleep? I don't get it (and more than one guy has wanted it then). But certainly it seems something that we could work out -- "Look, I have no interest in having sex between 2am and 10am (at least time enough to wake up, take a shower, eat breakfast and brush my teeth, even if I don't have to work)" Now a husband has a right to demand sex at any reasonable time (and the same with the wife) because marriage is a contract of bodily rights, but he should at least know that I'm going to be half-asleep through it.

Is that the sort of "sexual incompatibility" you are worried about?

 

[Rebekka]

All of us have made mistakes in life. I used to say that I regret nothing, that I don't make mistakes, I just have learning experiences. But now that I'm older (and Catholic), I realize that most of my life has seemed to be a series of mistakes one after another and I don't know how to make it right.

We're kind of all damaged goods in one way or another. I'm just looking for someone who is willing to put up with my baggage and love me anyway.

One of the things that disturb me about society is that most people I know often say things like "I don't regret anything, the things I did helped me become who I am now" [which implies that they're a good person, which is debatable]. They wouldn't be the person they are if it weren't for the things they did or experienced. But even from a secular perspective that's no excuse for making mistakes - because besides the concept of sin, there are many mistakes that make victims, that hurt other people. So you (general you) are who you are today because of whatever you did, and you therefore don't regret it? (That would be the same as saying "whatever happens is always the best that could happen", which is untrue and insulting to anyone who suffers.) No matter how many people you hurt in the process?

You bet I made mistakes and you bet I regret them! I regret so many things in my life it's ridiculous.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

I know that many people always defend premarital sex because "how else can you discover whether you're sexually compatible?"

What does sexual compatibility mean anyway? I find it such a vague notion. I can't imagine choosing a spouse based on sexual compatibility, either.





And to answer your question Rochir, I did wait. I was agnostic for most of my teens and twenties but still I waited because I've always believed in chastity, monogamy and fidelity, and I'm glad that I waited. My husband, who didn't wait, wishes he had waited, too.

I wish I had waited. When God -- the infinite good -- is taken out of the picture, the search for happiness instead relies on a series of finite goods (such as sexual pleasure, entertainment, shopping, whatever), which are never going to equal infinity. So I looked for happiness in one-night-stands, flings and long-term relationships but none of that meant anything until I found God. Now if I want to pursue marriage, it is with another person who is also in love with Jesus and so thus we grow spiritually together towards God rather than looking for the other person to make us happy (and no human person or any number of human people can make us truly happy -- only God can).

Currently reading:

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

well said

Today was the last day of a series of classes before Mass on the Virtues, I took notes

 

[JoabAnias]

I wish I had waited. When God -- the infinite good -- is taken out of the picture, the search for happiness instead relies on a series of finite goods (such as sexual pleasure, entertainment, shopping, whatever), which are never going to equal infinity. So I looked for happiness in one-night-stands, flings and long-term relationships but none of that meant anything until I found God. Now if I want to pursue marriage, it is with another person who is also in love with Jesus and so thus we grow spiritually together towards God rather than looking for the other person to make us happy (and no human person or any number of human people can make us truly happy -- only God can).

Currently reading:
http://www.amazon.com/Three-Get-Mar...2871/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303121100&sr=8-1

Good book.

Fornication ruined my life for years and years. I will be paying to the day I die. If only I knew then what I know now.

 

[Rochir]

There is nothing worse then having sex with a person you don't love.

There is no compatibility with out love.

Where in my post have I indicated otherwise?