No reason to believe X is true, other then my interpetation of Y must be true.

[Cabal]

I accept TEs as my brothers-and-sisters in Christ.

We are all going to sit at the same table when the time comes.

I should have remembered that, I'm sorry.

In this respect, I dearly wish more creationists were like you.

 

[AV1611VET]

I should have remembered that, I'm sorry.

In this respect, I dearly wish more creationists were like you.

I'll let you in on something else I believe: OSAS.

That means that, in my opinion, you'll be there too.

 

[Cabal]

I'll let you in on something else I believe: OSAS.

That means that, in my opinion, you'll be there too.

Out of curiosity (and I'll try not to be too disagreeable ) what is your justification for that? I don't recall I've heard it before.

 

[AV1611VET]

Out of curiosity (and I'll try not to be too disagreeable ) what is your justification for that? I don't recall I've heard it before.

OSAS = once saved, always saved = eternal security.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This goes for me as well.

 

[Cabal]

OSAS = once saved, always saved = eternal security.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This goes for me as well.

Ok, I was under the impression the unforgiveable sin was a rejection of Christ, so I figured it made sense that that was unforgiveable as you weren't in a position to receive it, but I can see where you're coming from with the John verse. How do you reconcile that with the unforgiveable sin?

 

[AV1611VET]

Ok, I was under the impression the unforgiveable sin was a rejection of Christ, so I figured it made sense that that was unforgiveable as you weren't in a position to receive it, but I can see where you're coming from with the John verse. How do you reconcile that with the unforgiveable sin?

The unpardonable sin is not accepting the prompting of the Holy Ghost to turn to Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins.

It's just a way of saying that, once a person dies, there's no second chance.

In your case, I am under the impression that at one time in your life, you sincerely asked Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Saviour and was genuinely born again.

Of course, I don't know -- but that's not my call.

Contrary to what some might think, I also think Split Rock and Thaumaturgy will be there as well.

I know the Bible says, "By their fruits ye shall know them", but if they were genuinely saved, their ridicule is not going to keep them out of Heaven.

 

[Doveaman]

And yet, each Christian believes they're the one who's right, the True Christians (tm).

If each Christian have a faith relationship with Christ then they are all True Christians. A Christian is not determined by their denomination or by their knowing how old the universe is. And you cannot be a Christian while ignoring Scripture since Scripture teaches us how to have that faith relationship with Christ. That would be like someone claiming to be a scientist while ignoring nature.

 

[Tomatoman]

AV:

The unpardonable sin is not accepting the prompting of the Holy Ghost to turn to Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins.

Of course, you have a special sub-clause to this divine legislation for all those people who lived before Jesus don't you? Which is handy for you.

And I believe that special sub-clause is one of many further sub-clauses, footnotes, addendums, revisions, compromises and special conditions for those who through no fault of their own never get to hear about Jesus, those born in different faiths, those who die in the womb, those who are mentally retarded and don't understand the concept of sin and forgiveness, those who commit sin when mentally ill, those who...oh, you name it, you've got a sub-clause covering it.

In fact, the only people without some special condition are those unpardonable people at which the unpardonable sin seems to be specifically aimed: those who know the jesus story but don't believe he was the son of god and never have. What a crime! But how convenient for those who do believe. "Ha, they may laugh at our beliefs now, but they will burn in hell for all eternity. Yes! Result!!!"

 

[AV1611VET]

AV:
Of course, you have a special sub-clause to this divine legislation for all those people who lived before Jesus don't you? Which is handy for you.

Nope -- no exceptions, no fine print, no hidden fees -- nothing.

 

[Tomatoman]

Nope -- no exceptions, no fine print, no hidden fees -- nothing.

!!!

Well that's a new one on me.

Your beliefs are genuinely revolting, AV, as well as being deeply stupid. No offence, but they are.

How do you live with yourself carrying all this awful, sickening crap around screwing your head up? It must be like living your life with some appalling mental disease. You have to live your life with this ridiculous mental straitjacket warping you from seeing the world in a healthy way. I genuinely feel sorry for you, not that you'll care of course, you're too far gone. But I do.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well that's a new one on me.

I have a feeling there's a lot of stuff new to you.

Your beliefs are genuinely revolting, AV, as well as being deeply stupid. No offence, but they are.

No offense taken -- I warned you you were in for a doosey of a ride if you couldn't get past Genesis 1.

How do you live with yourself carrying all this awful, sickening crap around screwing your head up?

By reading posts like yours everyday and reminding myself that I could have ended up being like that in my later years.

It must be like living your life with some appalling mental disease.

Yes -- the disease is called 'sin'.

You have to live your life with this ridiculous mental straitjacket warping you from seeing the world in a healthy way.

I'll be trading that 'ridiculous mental straitjacket' for a white robe someday.

I genuinely feel sorry for you, not that you'll care of course, you're too far gone. But I do.

Save it for someone else.

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

 

[Greg1234]

!!!

Well that's a new one on me.

Your beliefs are genuinely revolting, AV, as well as being deeply stupid. No offence, but they are.

How do you live with yourself carrying all this awful, sickening crap around screwing your head up? It must be like living your life with some appalling mental disease. You have to live your life with this ridiculous mental straitjacket warping you from seeing the world in a healthy way. I genuinely feel sorry for you, not that you'll care of course, you're too far gone. But I do.

Are all Anglicans like you?

 

[Tomatoman]

AV:

I have a feeling there's a lot of stuff new to you.

In your version of faith - yes. It would be new to 95% of people who call themselves christians. Probably 99%.


AV:

No offense taken -- I warned you you were in for a doosey of a ride if you couldn't get past Genesis 1.

Doosey of a ride? No. Rubbernecking - yes.

Av:

By reading posts like yours everyday and reminding myself that I could have ended up being like that in my later years.

Small consolation I would have thought for having one's mind poisoned, but there you are.

AV:

Yes -- the disease is called 'sin'.

An idea that is both very stupid and very, very sick.

AV:

I'll be trading that 'ridiculous mental straitjacket' for a white robe someday.

I don't doubt it!!!

Oh.

You mean you're going to wear a white robe in heaven. What exactly qualifies you to go to heaven again? Oh yes. You've sucked up to god. Bet he can't wait to meet a prize example of faith like you. You should have a splendid time together. What god wants with blinkered, stupid, ignorant, conceited devotion is anybody's guess. But if that's what he wants that's what he'll get.

AV:

Save it for someone else.

You might be right. After all, you must derive something from your 'faith', however sick it is. It's true that I don't know what your faith is compensating for in your life. Perhaps if I did I would feel less pity.

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Another one of your god's quaint little spurs to blind obedience? How fitting.

 

[Tomatoman]

Greg:

Are all Anglicans like you?

I don't think you would feel very at home in the church of England, Greg.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-13001983.html

 

[Greg1234]

Greg:
I don't think you would feel very at home in the church of England, Greg.

Quarter of Church of England clergy admit to doubting Virgin Birth - The Scotsman | HighBeam Research - FREE trial

So you are saying that thats how English Anglicans behave. Like you. Btw dwelling under the wings of bacteria men and kept in check by the master chief himself, its no surprise that these sort of things emerge. You extend condolences, not wonder.

 

[Tomatoman]

So you are saying that thats how English Anglicans behave. Like you.

When faced with the stupidity and ignorance of creationism the basic reaction would be the same: amusement, disbelief, and finally irritation and contempt. All the while pretending they weren't regarding you as retarded and insane.

Another interesting link for you: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...lergy-do-not-believe-in-the-Resurrection.html

 

[AV1611VET]

When faced with the stupidity and ignorance of creationism the basic reaction would be the same: amusement, disbelief, and finally irritation and contempt. All the while pretending they weren't regarding you as retarded and insane.

Tomatoman, he's asking you a very specific question; one that requires a simple YES or NO.

Can't you defend your faith?

Instead of pointing Greg to the Church of England, why don't you answer his question?

I'm curious, myself.

 

[Greg1234]

When faced with the stupidity and ignorance of creationism the basic reaction would be the same: amusement, disbelief, and finally irritation and contempt. All the while pretending they weren't regarding you as retarded and insane.

But you didn't answer the question. Are you an isolated case or are there more like you.

Another interesting link for you: One third of clergy do not believe in the Resurrection - Telegraph

The only relevance of this is as evidence of the impact of Darwinism. I've seen Christians, who call themselves "TE" attack the bible, in its entirety, helping the atheist with the flat earth myth and so on, not just the New Testament. I'm well aware of the harvests of Darwinism and the reason for its existence.

 

[Tomatoman]

AV:

Can't you defend your faith?

I've posted before about why I'm church of england rather than atheist. The difference to you would be essentially meaningless, so you can consider me an atheist for the purposes of this debate (by the way i hadn't seen greg's amended post when i replied).


Greg:

Btw dwelling under the wings of bacteria men and kept in check by the master chief himself, its no surprise that these sort of things emerge. You extend condolences, not wonder.

Can you repeat this in English please?

 

[AV1611VET]

But you didn't answer the question. Are you an isolated case or are there more like you.

Wait until you deal with the followers of the "Enlightened One" here, Greg.

If you're not on their eightfold path to the nearest science lab, you're a candidate for the funny farm.