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"No pornography!" say liberal atheists.

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Wow, its kind of disturbing how many people with the christian faith cross are not really against porn and/or still look (at least from what I am reading). I thought the bible made it pretty clear porn is a sin. I'm tempted to report this thread since its almost supporting porn. >.<

There is no verse in the Bible that says that. And this is a debate area, so people are allowed to disagree.

Porn for Christians falls more under the category of things to discourage for a Christian. Similar to charitable behavior, sexual chastity is more of an approach to a godly way of acting upon our sexual urges. With charity we learn to discipline a natural inclination towards greed that we see even in children and learn to be content and be generous. It's just that unlike hunger or deire for possessions the sexual urge becomes powerful as we approach adulthood and there are few teachins about how to be calm and relaxed about it.

Because there is such a lack, sex, mixed with other yearnings like companionship and desire for acceptance becomes a desperate urge. Pornography can act as a safety valve, but really we as Christians need to understand more clearly what the Bible teaches and apply it to sex.
 
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Strathos

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The thing is that in a free society we can't force non-Christians to obey Biblical commands. For example the Bible says that worshipping other gods and other religions is a sin and should not be done, as a Christian I obviously take this to mean I would never do that, but that doesn't mean that I can force everyone in my nation to give up their religions and join mine.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Eudaimonist

His what?

He's hardly what I would call a libertarian. In any case, his lifestyle does not define libertarianism for me.
Well, I'm glad that you're a classier guy than Hef. That is good to hear. :thumbsup:



I did. She happened to leave me, but I was in it for life.
And I'm truly sorry to hear that she left you...
 
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CounselorForChrist

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Questioning other people's Christianity is also against the rules though I think!
Well claiming a chrsitian isn't a chrsitian is against the rules. In that case I didn't do that. I simple pointed our that there are christians who support porn and I disagree with them.

Because there is such a lack, sex, mixed with other yearnings like companionship and desire for acceptance becomes a desperate urge. Pornography can act as a safety valve, but really we as Christians need to understand more clearly what the Bible teaches and apply it to sex.
Well technically one can MB without porn and use MB as the safety valve. Porn is not needed. At least for me it isn't. That aside are you saying porn is ok? I know some asked the verses about porn being a sin. It says if a man looks upon a woman with lust, then its a sin because you are essentially having sex with her in your heart. Married or not. And everyone knows you only look at porn for one reason. So at least for me the bible makes it clear lusting for another person is a sin, hence porn is a since because there is only one reason to look.

Where as lets say I watch the show Survivor. Theres many reasons to watch it. So its a not a sin. There are those who may watch it to look at the people in lustful ways, so when they do that its a sin for them. Porn on the other only has one reason to be watched. No one watches it for story or pretty graphics.
 
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Gadarene

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The thing is that in a free society we can't force non-Christians to obey Biblical commands.

Well....you kinda can, depending on what it is you're recommending.

You're right in that the example you go on to cite isn't something that can be justified. However, there is a law against murder, for example, and that certainly counts as a Biblical command in the sense that it is in the Bible (though virtually every society has had a prohibition against murder).

The point is, there are sensible, secular arguments that can be made in favour of this law. I've no problem with a group which happens to be comprised of Christians making their case for a particular law, if a cogent secular case can be made for it.

By contrast, simply lobbing a few interpretations of Bible verses out and acting as if they're self-evident will not work as they simply aren't going to convince anyone. And if personal belief in those interpretations are the only bits of your stance that hold up to contest, then let it alone and accept that you can't force nonbelievers to hold to these behaviours, so they should not be enshrined in law.

This is not going to stop some Christians trying to pass off bogus factual claims about the alleged harms of things like homosexuality or pornography, however - though ultimately they get shredded pretty well.
 
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Reeniee

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Well claiming a chrsitian isn't a chrsitian is against the rules. In that case I didn't do that. I simple pointed our that there are christians who support porn and I disagree with them.

I apologize, I did not mean to imply you'd said something you haven't. It was meant mostly as a light-hearted aside comment, and I guess it missed the mark. Sorry. :)
 
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Zetlander

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whether you christian or not, Research indicates that pornography can be extremely addictive. Pornography conditions a person to respond emotionally and sexually to a self-centered, artificial world. Many online relationships are similar to pornography in that they are not based in reality: what individuals read and see about people, relationships, and sex is distorted.

Viewing pornography can distort realistic views of healthy sexuality, lead to the objectification of women, and promote sexual gratification as a top emotional priority.

Every person finds ways to deal with the stress, anxiety, fear, boredom, and insecurity in their life. An addict is a person who has used addictive activities or substances as a way to deal with these things. Because pornography is readily accessible and can serve as a way to cope with anxiety, fear, boredom, etc., it often is used.
This use can easily escalate into addiction.
Addiction
The person finds he compulsively views pornography.

Escalation
The addicted person seeks progressively harder core pornography to get the same effect.

Desensitization
Tolerance increases to progressively explicit material.

Acting Out Sexually
The person seeks to act out fantasies viewed in the pornography (prostitution, adultery, etc.).

Pornography is often used as a way to deal with negative emotions and to cope with life&#8217;s problems, just as alcohol or illicit drugs might be abused.

It conditions the participant into having a sexual deviancy and/or disturbing a bonded relationship with a spouse or girlfriend.

A frequent side effect is that it also dramatically reduces the capacity to love, have friendship, affection, caring, and other normal healthy emotions and traits. Their sexual side becomes in a sense dehumanized. Many develop an &#8220;alien ego state&#8221; (or dark side), whose core is antisocial lust, devoid of most values. In time, the &#8220;high&#8221;&#8221; obtained from pornography becomes more important than real life relationships.

Lust is the opposite of human intimacy; it&#8217;s a self-indulgent fantasy which separates the sex from emotional connection. It is always insatiably &#8216;hungry&#8217; and the addict will risk family, job, and church to indulge in this hunger.

Pornography is extremely addictive. Regularly viewing pornography can destroy the ability to experience healthy and empathic relationships with others. It almost always leads to couple/marital disharmony, sometimes divorce or the breaking up of other intimate relationships.

Because pornography involves emotional, chemical, and physical stimulation, it can reset the brain in such a way that normal, healthy sexual experiences become unsatisfying and unfulfilling. Increasingly extreme or deviant sexual acts are often required to bring about sexual satisfaction. As a result, pornography addiction frequently destroys healthy marital relationships and can lead to sexual acting out with self and others or other immoral behavior......

the above is the view of the corrections, justice depts. The polce, medical, Pysc units around the world and of course associated 'licensed' councilers
The above just about describes every person in prison, and many others outside too, and many christians.
 
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Zetlander

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And to say, " i view porn and i can stop anytime i want' would indicate you are already addicted and i say to you, Go and ahead and try to stop ! if you can. not for a week but for the rest of your life. i POSTED the above becuase i am fed up of seeing the damage done by porn. Whether it be in the marital bed , male partner wanting to act out what he has seen on the internet or thru crime in the community, why is porn wrong, becuase its the only medium which normalises, gangbangs, rape, sex with animals, sex with children, etc, you start of with soft porn but before long your looking at the hardstuff and wanting harder stuff....every rapist and murdere i have dealt with, every rapist of children and women have been addicted to porn, the type that they end up acting out on their victims...Yeah, PORNS OK, You are only fooling yourselves !
 
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Desk trauma

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The issue I take with the alarmist "porn is going to curve your spine and make you a drooling pervert raping women to death in the street" arguments is that such things are not born out by the facts. If porn caused such havoc we would see it in crime statistics.

In 1990, prior to the explosion of internet porn in the US the murder rate was 9.4 per 100,000 of population and the rape rate was 41.2. In 2012, after years of internet porn saturation, the rates had dropped to 4.7 and 26.9 (all stats from the FBI, convenient table here).

Where then is this title wave of sexual assault and murder?
 
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Reeniee

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A frequent side effect is that it also dramatically reduces the capacity to love, have friendship, affection, caring, and other normal healthy emotions and traits.

Whoa! A frequent side effect? According to what research? For want of a better phrase: "Citation Needed."
 
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Desk trauma

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By his own logic, it is not porn that is the problem. It is the fact that people use it as a coping mechanism that is the problem.

Better ban it anyway!
 
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Eudaimonist

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And to say, " i view porn and i can stop anytime i want' would indicate you are already addicted and i say to you, Go and ahead and try to stop ! if you can. not for a week but for the rest of your life.

That's overkill for the purpose of disproving an addiction.

i POSTED the above becuase i am fed up of seeing the damage done by porn. Whether it be in the marital bed

What damage would that be?

male partner wanting to act out what he has seen on the internet

What is wrong with that if his partner is willing an consents?

or thru crime in the community

Crime? What crime? Porn watchers are rarely criminals.

why is porn wrong, becuase its the only medium which normalises, gangbangs, rape, sex with animals, sex with children, etc

Huh? That is very fringe porn. Are you only objecting to this kind of porn, or all porn?

you start of with soft porn but before long your looking at the hardstuff and wanting harder stuff....

Not really, no. I don't ever feel the need for porn that depicts rape, bestiality, or pedophilia.

every rapist and murdere i have dealt with, every rapist of children and women have been addicted to porn

Yeah, so? That doesn't mean that porn causes their behaviors, or that porn watchers in general are rapists or murderers.

Yeah, PORNS OK, You are only fooling yourselves !

I think that you are fooling yourself.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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technofox

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xfreakazoidx said:
Porn has WAYYYY more cons then positives. Not that I can think of any positives really. As the article stated it skews your mind on what sex is when you actually have it. Some are disappointing that sex isn't like some hour long video where a billions things are going on and are all perfect. One thing I noticed is its an addiction that requires net content and new ideas to stay good. Example lets say you start out looking at playboy magazine. Next you look at soft porn in videos. Again you need something new and exciting so you look at hardcore porn. And now you need more new. So you get into normal fetishes like lets say roleplaying. Well as always you need new, so you get into bondage. Then you move into actual people being sadomasochist stuff. Then maybe you move on to snuff porn stuff or animal stuff or even kids. I hear of it happening WAY to often. Porn is like a drug that you must feed constantly. And like any addiction its hard to break free of it or to get it out of your mind once free. Images and videos you can't forget. And as stated sex becomes something that is unrealistic. I think its a terrible thing.

You accurately described my former addiction to porn before I was saved. I went from Playboy to Bondage pics/videos and then believed in Jesus and eventually kicked the habit.

I still look at it once in a while, but nowhere near as much as I used to. I find bondage abhorrent and hardcore too gross/fake to even get any entertainment out of it. Basically anything beyond playboy or penthouse is just too much for me.

Personally I think porn is bad if viewed too frequently and easily addicting. Just as you said it can't be a gateway drug to needing more explicit material to enjoy it, and that is a definite sign of addiction.

To me playboy isn't porn per se, it's more of a nude version of the swimsuit magazine with decent articles worth reading. Penthouse is explicit enough to being borderline porn in my point of view and anything beyond that is 100% unquestionably porn.

I really wish porn never went beyond nudy magazines, because in my point of view it gives an inaccurate view of sexual relationships and what sex is all about. Nudity does not equal porn, even if it is considered erotic, but that is only my humble opinion.
 
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MehGuy

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You find bondage abhorrent? Why? It is pretty harmless, and is about as innocent as holding hands in some contexts. The expressions of bondage is diverse. It can be romantic/sexual platonic, dark/happy/joyful/peaceful/tense...

I think what you guys are really talking about is the escalation of sadism. Hence the example of it leading to snuff films is understandable. It leading to animals and children do not, since it would fall outside of the expression of sadism. Unless you're talking about torturing animals and children..

I'd respond to this by saying that many people are into sadism for very different reasons. For me personally my S/M was shaped by my faith in Christianity as a child. I was taught those suffering for Christ were beautiful, and for some reason I really took that to heart. So I cherish those who are suffering, and do not have this fantasy of killing them. It's just an expression of love and devotion.

I have met sadists who have admitted they have desires to actually kill and torture people. But fortunately those people are in the minority. They are most likely the outcome of abusive homes and very unstable childhoods.

We must look at things beyond a black and white context.

(This post isn't directed at any on person..)
 
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technofox

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MehGuy said:
You find bondage abhorrent? Why? It is pretty harmless, and is about as innocent as holding hands in some contexts. The expressions of bondage is diverse. It can be romantic/sexual platonic, dark/happy/joyful/peaceful/tense... I think what you guys are really talking about is the escalation of sadism. Hence the example of it leading to snuff films is understandable. It leading to animals and children do not, since it would fall outside of the expression of sadism. Unless you're talking about torturing animals and children.. I'd respond to this by saying that many people are into sadism for very different reasons. For me personally my S/M was shaped by my faith in Christianity as a child. I was taught those suffering for Christ were beautiful, and for some reason I really took that to heart. So I cherish those who are suffering, and do not have this fantasy of killing them. It's just an expression of love and devotion. I have met sadists who have admitted they have desires to actually kill and torture people. But fortunately those people are in the minority. They are most likely the outcome of abusive homes and very unstable childhoods. We must look at things beyond a black and white context. (This post isn't directed at any on person..)

I am not saying all bondage is abhorrent, just the ones that go to far, like cutting off circulation and kicking someone to the genitals, or that induces pain or bleeding. Light bondage is fine by me, but not the extreme stuff.
 
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Belk

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I am not saying all bondage is abhorrent, just the ones that go to far, like cutting off circulation and kicking someone to the genitals, or that induces pain or bleeding. Light bondage is fine by me, but not the extreme stuff.


Is it OK if all participants are enjoying the experience?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Where as lets say I watch the show Survivor. Theres many reasons to watch it. So its a not a sin. There are those who may watch it to look at the people in lustful ways, so when they do that its a sin for them. Porn on the other only has one reason to be watched. No one watches it for story or pretty graphics.

I watch porn for the comedy -- There's nothing funnier, IMO, than watching abysmally bad acting done by people who are fully aware that they are indeed abysmally bad actors.

My friends and I have regular porn nights where we usually fast forward through the sex scenes to get back to the "plot."

So your statement is not, strictly speaking, true.
 
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