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Good point.It depends on what you mean by nature, really.
Well this is something Paul and James addressed, James spoke of a law of liberty which was not a "law" but a new nature, just like the law of sin in our members that sinned within him was not a law in the mosaic sense but a nature.
For us to be able to "participate in the divine nature" as the scripture says, we would need to be given that very nature, theosis is a great mystery. I think the answer to your question lies in "maturity," the question you are asking is similar to assumptions surrounding the utterance of prophecy in the new testament era. It's not so much being God, Jesus did that, it's about living in the nature Jesus gave us through the Holy Spirit when we're born again. I am reminded of how Paul said that we are renewed inwardly everyday by the Holy Spirit, but our flesh decays all around us.
When we were born again, our inside person changed to be just like Jesus, but we were not given new bodies, the physical body did not stop thinking or making logical connections. The two are in conflict, but when the physical body is removed, there will be a glory revealed that surpasses all the pressure that was against it.
This is popping up in my alerts as a "reply" to my post. But unless you add a bit more, or I know what it's in reply to ... I would have to make assumptions to answer, and that might be unfair to you.... and with the mind of Christ, we never sin anymore, because we cannot sin.
As a metaphorical statement talk of a new nature is just fine. However from a theological point of view we don't get a different nature. Christ's nature and ours are already the same, both of them human. However ours is corrupted and his is not. What happens is that progressively ours becomes less corrupted, and also we become spiritually united with him, so that he is present in us and works through us. But this is not strictly speaking a replacement of our nature.Scriptures do say that we are changed. We receive the Holy Spirit when we are converted and baptized. But do you really think that a person' sinner nature INSTANTLY becomes EXACTLY like Christ? Christ had human flesh just as we have. If we were exactly like Him in spirit, why would we ever sin? The body does not force us to sin. It is our mind that carries out own own selfish will and directs the body to sin.
Right, if anything I said implied otherwise, I retract it.As a metaphorical statement talk of a new nature is just fine. However from a theological point of view we don't get a different nature. Christ's nature and ours are already the same, both of them human. However ours is corrupted and his is not. What happens is that progressively ours becomes less corrupted, and also we become spiritually united with him, so that he is present in us and works through us. But this is not strictly speaking a replacement of our nature.
I understand.What is it about "born again" you don't understand? "new creature"? How about I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I...?
We all understand this, but to oversimplify such concepts is to keep one drinking milk for their entire spiritual lives.What is it about "born again" you don't understand? "new creature"? How about I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I...?
So as not to derail a thread I'll post this here.
How do we compare:
To this?:
"But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;" (Rom. 3: 21-24, NASB).
Are we to always see ourselves in a constant state of unrighteousness, or does God declare us righteous through Christ?
He gives me all the things the gentiles seek.
I think we discover the real meaning, by growing in the fruit of the Holy Spirit, and God's correction produces "the peaceable fruit of righteousness" (in Hebrew 12:6-11).We all understand this, but to oversimplify such concepts is to keep one drinking milk for their entire spiritual lives.
We see ourselves as unrighteous because in ourselves, we are. God declares us as righteous because in Jesus, we are. It is only through Jesus' sacrifice for us and His blood that covers us that God declares us righteous. .. even though, we in ourselves are obviously not. We still live in this flesh and that which we would do, we do not do. Our spirit is willing but our flesh of dust is weak.
Yes, this is what Paul says, in Romans 2:25-29. God does not only declare us right with Him, but deeply He changes us to be like Jesus, including so we are pleasing to Him like Jesus is; and this includes >Who is a Jew, but one inwardly.
Good point.
Thanks for the reply.
I agree with you that "theosis" is the answer. But theosis is not instantly achieved.
Scriptures do say that we are changed. We receive the Holy Spirit when we are converted and baptized. But do you really think that a person' sinner nature INSTANTLY becomes EXACTLY like Christ? Christ had human flesh just as we have. If we were exactly like Him in spirit, why would we ever sin? The body does not force us to sin. It is our mind that carries out own own selfish will and directs the body to sin.
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