• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

No One In Heaven part one

KM Richards

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2010
887
32
I'm right here!
✟1,233.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
John 3:13 "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven

At that particular time when Jesus said this...it was true.

Many things in His earthly ministry were done under the Old Covenant...once the New Covenant became effective, things changed for the better because the New Covenant is based on better promises.

Once Jesus rose from the grave and took captivity captive...He led those that were in that holding place known as Abraham's bosom...into Heaven.

Noboy could possibly go to Heaven until AFTER Jesus defeated death, hell, and the grave...because at that point, the New Birth was now available.

Once a person is born again, they go straight to Heaven when they die because they've been washed in the Blood of Jesus and they are perfectly clean and have become new creatures in Christ Jesus
 
Upvote 0

k4c

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2003
4,278
39
Rhode Island
✟4,820.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

If this were all true then David would also be in heaven but we hear Peter state that David has not ascended into heaven and this was years after the resurrection of Jesus.

Ephesians 4:8 Therefore, it says: "He ascended on high and took prisoners captive; he gave gifts to men."

The captivity that Jesus took captive where all those He set free by the Gospel He preached. Notice how Paul states he is a prisoner of Jesus in the very first sentence.

Ephesians 4:1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to have a walk worthy of the calling with which you were called,

Paul was a prisoner of sin just like everyone else untill he became a prisoner of Christ.

All the people that received Jesus during His time on earth was being proclaimed as His accomplishment when He set them free from their bondage to sin.

Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed,

John 8:32-34 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.'' They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can you say, `You will be made free'?'' Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.

And the gifts are stated a few verses later.

Ephesians 4:11-12 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
 
Upvote 0

bugkiller

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2015
17,773
2,629
✟95,400.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
where did the two figures Jesus talked with at the transfiguration come from? I think they were positively identified as Moses and Elijah.

bugkiller
 
Upvote 0

KM Richards

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2010
887
32
I'm right here!
✟1,233.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Folks have the right to their own opinion...but, David is in Heaven (where did Peter says David didn't make it to Heaven???)

And, Paul was saying he is a prisoner of the Lord unto serving the Lord...not as someone who was bound by sin (that would mean he didn't know how to live unto Jesus instead of unto sin)
 
Upvote 0

k4c

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2003
4,278
39
Rhode Island
✟4,820.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
where did the two figures Jesus talked with at the transfiguration come from? I think they were positively identified as Moses and Elijah.

bugkiller

You tell me.

Did they come up from the grave or did they come down from heaven or was it just a vision of which does not have to be a literal reality as seen in visions all throughout the Bible?

Matthew 17:9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.''
 
Upvote 0

k4c

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2003
4,278
39
Rhode Island
✟4,820.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

Acts 2:29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

Acts 2:34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: `The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,
 
Upvote 0

bugkiller

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2015
17,773
2,629
✟95,400.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Well they must have been raised form the dead where ever they came from. What does the scripture say? I thought satan and an angel had a fight over Moses body. If he went to hell satan would not be arguing or fighting over it. And an angel took it somewhere.Where did Elijah go in the whirlwind? My bible says he went to heaven.

It was litteral the word vision here is something gazed at - a spectacle. It is described as an event that took place not a dream. You are casting doubt and disbelief on the scripture. Jesus took Peter, James and John up to the mountian. This is a physical thing. I think the word vision is a bad choice of words for KJV. At least for our understanding of the word in the 21st century.

bugkiller
 
Upvote 0

k4c

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2003
4,278
39
Rhode Island
✟4,820.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married


I guess you haven't read my study.
 
Upvote 0

KM Richards

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2010
887
32
I'm right here!
✟1,233.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Since Jesus had not done what He did yet which made the New Birth available...they were in "Abraham's Bosom"...which is the same place Lazurus was in in the story Jesus told about the rich man and Lazurus.

Thjis was a protected, temporary place God set up for the OT Saints until the new birth became available, at which point they went to Heaven to be in the presence of the Father.

This place is no longer in existance because it's no longer needed...but
the cathlics think it is and they call it pergatory and charge money to
get your loved ones out of there...or so I've been told




.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

k4c

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2003
4,278
39
Rhode Island
✟4,820.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

Do you really think the parable Jesus used, to teach the religious Jews how earthly riches is not a determining factor of one being right with God, was litteral?

For example, do you really think that a father, who was saved, could see his son, who was lost, burn with pain and agony for hundreds maybe thousands of years before the new birth was avalible?

Do you really think all the millions of people could fit in Abraham's bosom?

Do you really think a drop of water could cure the curse of burning hell fire.

Do you really think a saved mother in a place called Paradise and a lost daughter in a burning place called hell could talk between these two places of the dead?

Parables don't have to be true to teach a lesson nor do they need to be Biblically sound because the true lesson is found in what is understood behind the scenes.
 
Upvote 0

KM Richards

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2010
887
32
I'm right here!
✟1,233.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Parables don't have to be true to teach a lesson nor do they need to be Biblically sound because the true lesson is found in what is understood behind the scenes.

Jesus told stories about real people and actual situations...because He is perfect and absolutely cannot lie.

You and I...sure we can use examples that aren't actually real to illustrate a point we may be making...but Jesus, He's THE Word of God...

If any of His parables were lies...then He sinned, and if He sinned, then we're all doomed to hell...

I mean, if Jesus were able to lose track of what day of the week it was...and on a Thursday afternoon He walked in and said "what a wonder Saturday afternoon it is"...suddenly, it's now Saturday afternoon! In other words, what He says happens!

BTW, Abraham's bosom was just like the Garden of Eden...it was a place of paradise with plenty of room for all the Sainst to hang out and watch Jesus on the big screen at the OT Saints convention...they downloaded His teachings to their iPods, and checked out Jesus' website Jesus.vic where they could email the Father and consult with the Holy Ghost
 
Upvote 0
I

ImperialJohn

Guest


"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matthew 24

The Bible confirms that even the very elect, those who bear Christ's name "Christians" would be deceived. Satan has infiltrated the Church and led people astray.

You're quite right on this. I think this last part sums it up pretty well. If anyone else did deserve to be resurrected and inherit the Kingdom besides Jesus it would have been King David. But scripture confirms he is still in the grave. Everyone who has ever lived except Jesus has sined and we know the wages of sin are death. Jesus is the only one who so far qualified by overcoming sin and living the perfect sinless life.

At the moment all others are still dead, buried and with us to this day in the grave. That includes all the prophets, apostles, saints, the virgin Mary, We and they are still awaiting resurrection and judgement.

Jesus was the first fruits. Then there are still two more resurrections to take place. The Millenial Resurrection and the Great White Throne Resurrection.

It is only church doctrine that teaches opposite to this that we all go straight to heaven or hell. Satan has deceived the Church and whole World. It was the original deception in the Garden of Eden that people are falling for all over again that we surely wont die.

“I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me”. Jesus Christ (John 14:6)

"all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23

We are yet to be resurrected for Judgement when the Messiah returns. That has not yet happened. All who have ever existed are dead and buried to this day. Only Jesus rose from the dead never to die again. Only Jesus can save us.


 
Upvote 0

k4c

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2003
4,278
39
Rhode Island
✟4,820.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

Amen...
 
Upvote 0