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WoodrowX2

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Your religion is a false religion. What you believe about Satan and his demons is irrelevant. Sorry for saying it so bluntly, but it is the truth.

I used to say the very same things about Muslims when I was a Christian.

But, I have no concern of what you believe. As long as it is by your own choice and you are willing to accept the results, I say go for it.

I have made my choice of my own free will and happily accept what comes from it.
 
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Crypto

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Obama is as much of a Christian as Attila the Hun. You are wrong about naskh. Naskh is an Islamic abrogation principle according to which newer verses supersede older ones. This is extremely basic Islamic theology.

This is a key term in studying the Quran. There are some peaceful, tolerant verses in the Quran. But the violent, intolerant ones have abrogated them. The Quran itself explains what to do with conflicting verses. If two passages conflict, it says, the one written later is better than the one written earlier. The earlier passage has been abrogated by the later one.

The bad news for non-Muslims is that almost all the peaceful passages were written earlier, and the intolerant, hateful, and violent ones were written later (read more about this).

The two key abrogation passages in the Quran are these:

2:106 "Whatever of Our revelations We repeal or cause to be forgotten, We will replace them with something superior or comparable. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things? Do you not know that Allah reigns sovereign over the heavens and earth and besides Him you have no protector or helper? Would you question your messenger as Moses was questioned in his time? Those who exchange their faith for disbelief have gone astray from the right path."

16:101 "When We exchange one verse for another, and Allah knows best what He reveals, they say, 'You are making this up.' Most of them do not understand."​
Bill Warner writes, "There are as many as 225 verses of the Koran that are altered by later verses. This is called abrogation."


An Inquiry Into Islam: What is "Abrogation" in Islam?


Do you know that your fellow Muslims will try to kill you if you ever leave Islam? How do you feel about that?
 
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Crypto

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What comes from it is hell. Good luck accepting that!
 
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MrLuther

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Source? Please tell me that the source is more than just the part of your anatomy you sit on.

Islam is the way in which Satan is causing the spiritual death of millions.

No Christian can disagree with this. However, that's hardly relevant to what we were originally speaking about: The external, temporal consequences. And in THAT sense, and that sense alone, islam was a definite improvement upon paganism.
 
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MrLuther

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Uhm...just what do you suspect we mean when we say "demon"? Because you have just described the angels, and the evil angels we call "demons". They can possess humans (but actual possession happens a lot less frequently than some would think...though it of course does happen), and are seperate beings from humans.
What distinguishes a djinn from an angel?
 
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WoodrowX2

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Sorry I had not addressed the issue of Abrogation I was pointing out that it is not important for the Qur'an to be in Chronological order.

On a personal note I do not see the abrogations any different from the way the NT abrogated the OT

I know quite a few Muslims who left Islam. Some I converted to Christianity my self. No body has killed a single one of them.and they are living in places like Iran, Iraq and Saudi.

Can you name any Muslims that have been killed for apostasy in the past 20 years?
 
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Crypto

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Learn to address people properly and I'll give you the source.
 
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Ishraqiyun

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Abrogation was supposed to have applied to previous scriptures and their teachings. You can tell by the context of the Quranic verse that mentions it. There is no reason to assume it applied to any of the verses of the Quran itself. There were a few commenters who went that route because they had trouble reconciling certain Quranic statements but that method of interpretation is hardly universal or embraced by all Muslims. Many Muslims across the gamut from traditional conservative to liberal reject that way of looking at abrogation. It was basically just saying a person no longer has to keep the sabbath ( to use an example) because the command in the Torah is abrogated and replaced by the Quranic teachings.
 
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WoodrowX2

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Good Questions.

We do not believe Angels are capable of evil. they are created as pure Goodness with full obedience to God(swt). We do not believe they could fall and become demons. They are also immortal and do not procreate.

The Djinn are more similar to humans. they can choose to do evil. they are mortal, are born, live, have families die and will face the Judgment day.

We do not believe Iblis (Satan, Luciver, Devil) was an angel as he choose to disobey God(swt) and did sin. He was a Shaitan a Sapient being with free will that chose evil. A shaitan can be a Djinn or a Human. Since the only humans were Adam and Eve and an Angel can not be a Shaitan, that means Iblis was a Djinn.

We do not believe the shaitan have any power over humans, except what a human allows them to have. They do their dirty work through was-was (Whispers of temptation)

However, if a Human makes the error of Worshiping a Djinn it is possible for the Djinn to posses them and use the Human body for evil.
 
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Crypto

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The NT has not abrogated the OT. Look at what Jesus said:

"“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-20)

The NT has just revealed the OT in a new way, exposing truths that were hidden from the creation of the world:

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17)

"Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.” (Matthew 13:34-36)


Moreover, the NT is the fulfillment of many of the prophecies contained in the OT.


Lots of Muslims have been killed for apostasy.


Ibn Abbaas said : The Messenger of Allah said, “Whoever changes his (Islamic) religion, kill him.” Al-Bukhary (number 6922)


Abd-Allah ibn Masood said : The Messenger of Allah said : “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allah and that I am the Messenger of Allah, except in one of three cases : a soul (in case of murder) ; a married person who commits adultery ; and one who leaves his religion and separates from the main body of Muslims.” Sahih Al Bukhary number 6484 and Sahih Muslim number 1676


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hedrfexMYrU
 
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WoodrowX2

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Shoebat has been shown to be a fraud numerous times. He has been exposed by several News groups.


SOURCE
 
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WoodrowX2

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The question still stands. Can you name any Muslims that have been killed for Apostasy in the past 20 years?

I can not find any names even on Anti-Islam sites.

I lived in Islamic Nations as a Christian Missionary and never heard of any one being killed for apostasy.
 
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WoodrowX2

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I should mention the Iranian Pastor mentioned in the video is an Apostate and is in Jail. but he is charged with Rape not apostasy.


SOURCE
 
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smaneck

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What's the context? Who was this old woman, and what had she done?

I don't know about the old lady specifically, but I do know that the raid was made on this tribe in retaliation for their having ambushed a group of Muslims killing 9 of them.
 
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smaneck

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Thanks, brother. I reported her because she keeps making personal remarks. It is not my style to report people, but she was behaving in an excessively uncivilized manner.

I had reported you several times before I starting making any personal remarks. It was only when my appeals to the moderator were ignored that I began to respond to you this way.
 
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smaneck

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At least the sexual fantasy comment was based on your actual post that constantly references kissing goddesses private parts.

That's what I kept reporting him to the mods for but they never responded, so I decided to confront him directly.
 
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WoodrowX2

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There have been Baha'is killed for apostasy although they were never Muslims to begin with.

That is true. but, they were murdered and not tried in any court that I am aware of.

I hope you do not think that was sanctioned by anything in the Qur'an
 
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