No Literal Hell?

begt, I suggest you leave this forum unless you want to be banned. I say this not to threaten you, but as a warning. Personally, I couldn't care less if you keep posting here. But it's not an open forum for debate, that's located elsewhere. This section is restricted to baptists only.

Hammster said:

Ephesians 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-
3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-

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But it takes faith to believe in the bible obviously...

faceofbear, I'll take your advice. But it seems extremely weird to have a forum where only one perspective is allowed. Endless praise is of no use

Can you direct me to a discussion forum where I can discuss this?

Thanks.

begt said:

But it takes faith to believe in the bible obviously...

faceofbear, I'll take your advice. But it seems extremely weird to have a forum where only one perspective is allowed. Endless praise is of no use

Can you direct me to a discussion forum where I can discuss this?

Thanks.

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You can be here to ask questions.

It takes faith to believe the bible. But that's a result of God working in in you. When one is born, one starts to breathe. When one is born again, one starts to believe.

In other words, you don't have faith so that you may be saved. You are saved, and s result of that is faith.

Hammster said:

Ephesians 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-
3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-

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Why did you leave off the "through faith" part? Just curious.

RobertZ said:

Your still missing it, Death itself is destroyed in the Lake of Fire before the damned are cast into it. The ability to "Cease to exist" as you would put it is destroyed by the lake of fire, the only thing left for those who will be cast into the lake of fire is an eternal conscious torment and they shall have no rest day or night.

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You completely mangle the very clear English structure of Revelation 21:8. That's ok, it doesn't really matter I guess I'm done with this thread since you'll are completely unreasonable in the manner you twist and warp scripture to support your viewpoint.

Bear.Fr00t said:

You completely mangle the very clear English structure of Revelation 21:8. That's ok, it doesn't really matter I guess I'm done with this thread since you'll are completely unreasonable in the manner you twist and warp scripture to support your viewpoint.

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Tell us please, in what way have we warped and twisted the scripture? Or are you just offended by the truth?

RobertZ said:

Why did you leave off the "through faith" part? Just curious.

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Because it's not there.

Hammster said:

Because it's not there.

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Sorry, I was thinking about Ephesians 2:8

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:8 simply tells us that the lost will be in the lake of fire. No twisting of Scripture at all.

Revelation 2:11 reveals to us that the lake of fire does not kill those who are in it, but rather that it hurts them.

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

The Greek word that is translated 'hurt' here is the word "adikeo". It is never translated as killed.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
91. adikeo
[SIZE=-1]swordsearcher://search+KJVSL/G91[/SIZE]adikew adikeo ad-ee-keh'-o from 94; to be unjust, i.e. (actively) do wrong (morally, socially or physically):--hurt, injure, be an offender, be unjust, (do, suffer, take) wrong.


Revelation 14:9-11 verify the fact that the lake of fire does not have the ability to kill those who are in it.

Revelation 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


In saying that those in the lake of fire will be tormented forever, we are not twisting the Scripture, ... we are agreeing with Scripture.

I want to post this for you.

Several years ago I studied this, and presented this back when everything had to be "wikified".

I was told this was to "Protestant" for CF by the resident "Wiki" chief.

Nevertheless, here it is for you:

Speaking of Hell

God Bless

Till all are one.

Studious One,

re: "No twisting of Scripture at all."


OK, maybe "twist" was the wrong word to use - "interpret" would probably be a better one.

In my own personal opinion, the prominence of anihilationism and universalism is a response to many of the distortions presented in the pulpits that preach hellfire and brimstone. Baptist preachers are probably the most notorious hellfire and brimstone preachers.

First of all, preachers are telling their church that Hades is hell. Well the bible is clear that in the end, Hades will give up all who are in it. If my baptist pastor tells me that Hades is hell... then I go and look in revelation and see that Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them and then Death and Hades was thrown into the lake of fire. Hades is biblically NOT a place of eternal torment and suffering. So why do preachers tell their church this lie?

Second is the notion around Jesus teaching about hell often. This is a distortion. If you take the verses on Gehenna-hell in the context of the Chapter or sermon, His topic was always that of salvation and the kingdom of heaven and he used Gehenna as a metaphor for the alternative. I think Gehenna paints a very good picture and certainly alludes to the Lake of Fire. But it also lends itself to appeal to the notion of uncleanliness, worthlessness, and torment especially in light of the 1st century Jews who were obsessed with cleanliness.

Possibly the biggest issue propagating it is the knee jerk responses similar to what I see in this thread. People under the banner of Christianity use tongue in cheek insults and accusations of stupidity and of not being able to understand the bible as the primary defense for the traditional views. Rather than engaging in an authentic discourse.

The bible, especially the old testament, is ripe with examples of people lamenting and challenging the beliefs that were presented to them (some say half of proverbs). Look at Job! Whenever someone is posing a strong question, this is the time to have the patience that Jesus had when teaching his disciples.

Ever read the parable of the unforgiving servant?
As punishment he was delivered to the torturers...
But there is only the lake of fire,
there is no hell at this time, neither has anyone gone to heaven
but everyone sleeps till the ressurection as said from paul

Isolation said:

Ever read the parable of the unforgiving servant?
As punishment he was delivered to the torturers...
But there is only the lake of fire,
there is no hell at this time, neither has anyone gone to heaven
but everyone sleeps till the ressurection as said from paul

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I believe the Rich man would beg to differ.

RobertZ said:

I believe the Rich man would beg to differ.

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It was not a present tense parable
As the resurrection would have not have happened yet

There is no such thing as 'soul sleep.'

The soul is very much conscious after the death of the body.

True, the story of the rich man an Lazarus is not a present tense parable. I am not even sure that it is a parable at all.

But the story is indeed a past and present tense story. We see past tense throughout the story.

Luke 16:19-31 There WAS a certain rich man, which WAS clothed in purple and fine linen, and FARED SUMPTUOUSLY every day: And there WAS a certain beggar named Lazarus, which WAS LAID at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs CAME AND LICKED his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar DIED, and WAS CARRIED by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also DIED, and WAS BURIED; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he CRIED and SAID, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormenteD in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime RECEIVEDST thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

It is obvious that the story deals with something that has already taken place. But it is equally true that it deals with the present as well. "NOW HE IS COMFORTED AND THOU ARE TORMENTED." It does not say, 'HE SHALL BE COMFORTED AND THOU WILT BE TORMENTED.' No, it shows a present reality in the lives of Lazarus and the rich man.

I am unsure of this
Since Paul speaks as if everyone is asleep waiting till the ressurection
To be honest it makes sense

Actually, it is only the righteous dead who are said to be sleeping. The wicked dead are always said to be dead.

Notice what John says in Revelation:

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Paul, in his epistles, never states that the wicked dead are 'sleeping.'

There are only 7 verses in the Bible where Paul uses the word sleep or slept. Not one of them are speaking of the wicked dead.

Well that may be the case since the bible makes it pretty clear....