No Life

[Caedmon]

So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. - John 6:53, NASB

Following the "transubstantiation" interpretation, what does this verse say about Christians that haven't partaken of Catholic Eucharist?

 

[Caedmon]

I know this is a tough question, but could I please get some feedback from a few people? I'm really confused about this.

 

[nyj]

Dave Armstrong says it much better than I can, check this out Joe.

http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ126.HTM

 

[Theresa]

There's so much I can and cannot speak about the Eucharist. All I really want to say is that I was raised Catholic, and I believed in God and participated and loved. I grew more, I went through some ups and downs. I come to a time when I joined my entire life, all my love, and all my faith with the reception of the Eucharist and I go warpspeed to a different type of life, a life that is reflected by the saints. A total withdrawel from the desires of this world, a very real revulsion to any sins against purity and a greater LOVE. A LOVE incomparable. A love that could bring me to my knees for hours praying for others. A love that endures.

All I can say is I thought I was Christian before, but the after was something really different. I think it is where we all should be and I attribute it entirely to sacramental grace through Absolution but most especially the Eucharist.

(check out: Divine Mercy in my Soul- Saint Faustina Kowalska wriiten about 1933. It may help you take the leap of faith you're aiming for.)

I don't know what happens to those who do not partake, it's very possible they will still ascend to heaven but I don't think they would have the same heavenly rewards as the highest saints. It's hard to explain, though. In my mind it's like this, they may achieve heaven, but the Eucharist is a great gift and those who partake are those who will ascend to the highest heights of heaven. (I'm not worrying about rank just trying to explain)

Theresa

 

[ZooMom]

Luke 12:47 "That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.
48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

 

[Caedmon]

Today at 08:49 PM ZooMom said this in Post #5 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=649864#post649864)

Luke 12:47 "That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.
48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

Please explain it to me mommy... *puppy eyes*

 

[ZooMom]

Ignorance (and I hope we are all adult enough to know that igorance does not = stupid) is a mitigation. It's not their fault. People who reject the Eucharist do it because they don't believe that Christ is really there. They have been taught or convinced through various arguments that Christ, Body/Blood/Soul/Divinity, could not possibly be contained in the bread and wine. But this does not mean that they reject Christ. They reach out to Him in a communion of remembrance, of symbolism. There is no danger for them in this, as their communion is not consecrated and therefore not the True Body and Blood. They are not approaching the Eucharist 'unworthily', since it is not the Eucharist at all, but rather a commemorative Passover meal. It would be far worse for them to eat the Eucharist vainly, not discerning the Body of our Lord contained in it, than to not partake at all.

Briefly, they don't know that it is Christ in the Eucharist, so they will not be punished for not receiving Him in that manner. Does that help?

Peace be with you!

 

[Theresa]

May I pipe in again?

It occurs to me, and of course I may be wrong, that there are those who don't do what they know to do, who will be beaten with many blows and in the same vein, those who do know what they're supposed to do and do it will be granted greater rewards and in my mind that means pariticularily the reception of the Eucharist.

I can't get it out more clearly. I think myself as a Catholic, will either be beaten with more blows than the average Protestant if I did not do all that God had showed me or I will recieve greater rewards than the ave. Prot. because of my co-operation with Christ most especially through the Eucharist. (Keep in mind, I don't intend to rank or label but to give a general impression of how I see things).



I suppose when it comes down to it, I veto what VOW once said, that she suppects many Protestants will be spending alot of time in Purgatory (not that we won't) as a means of cleansing them in the way they weren't cleansed on earth because of their lack of participation in sacramental grace. In the same vein, the greatest Saints can participate more fully and receive God more fully because of their pariticipation in Sacramental grace.

I suppose you could say that to be Protestant is good but to be Catholic is better. Can I say it that way? I remember reading in the book mentioned above, and Christ showed St. Faustina the moon and the stars and he pointed out to her the difference in light. The moon's light was way greater then the stars and he says that is how great is the different between a Religious and other souls.

Anyways, peace and Love
Theresa

 

[Caedmon]

Today at 05:21 AM ZooMom said this in Post #7 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=650487#post650487)

Ignorance (and I hope we are all adult enough to know that igorance does not = stupid) is a mitigation. It's not their fault. People who reject the Eucharist do it because they don't believe that Christ is really there. They have been taught or convinced through various arguments that Christ, Body/Blood/Soul/Divinity, could not possibly be contained in the bread and wine. But this does not mean that they reject Christ. They reach out to Him in a communion of remembrance, of symbolism. There is no danger for them in this, as their communion is not consecrated and therefore not the True Body and Blood. They are not approaching the Eucharist 'unworthily', since it is not the Eucharist at all, but rather a commemorative Passover meal. It would be far worse for them to eat the Eucharist vainly, not discerning the Body of our Lord contained in it, than to not partake at all.

Briefly, they don't know that it is Christ in the Eucharist, so they will not be punished for not receiving Him in that manner. Does that help?

Peace be with you!

But what if I understand how Catholics believe, but I can't believe it myself?

 

[Caedmon]

Today at 10:32 AM Theresa said this in Post #8 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=650842#post650842)
receive God more fully because of their pariticipation in Sacramental grace.

What does that mean?

 

[ZooMom]

Today at 06:16 PM humblejoe said this in Post #9 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=651614#post651614)

But what if I understand how Catholics believe, but I can't believe it myself?

Then, my dear, you are under Grace. Knowing that Catholics believe it does not hold you to the same responsibility as believing it yourself. On the day that you make the leap of faith that accepting this Mystery requires, then you will be accountable. Until then, you don't know the Lord's Will for you in this. I'm sure you can tell me honestly from your heart that if you thought it was God's Will that you accept the True Presence and participate in the Eucharist, that wild horses couldn't keep you from it. As it is, you are only worried that it *might* be His Will, but you just aren't sure because it *might not* be. As I said, you are under Grace...until you know.


Peace be with you.

 

[isshinwhat]

But what if I understand how Catholics believe, but I can't believe it myself?

No one here believed in the Eucharistic Lord through anything but revelation. It is a grace of God, plain and simple. You could try of yourself to figure it out all your life and never have it happen, unless you abandoned yourself to God, patiently allowing Him to reveal it to you.

Second, Jesus was speaking only to a specific group of Jews, not to everyone in an all encompassing statement.

John 6:52-54:

The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Jews would have no life in them because of their rejection of Jesus' revelation to them. They turned their back on His teaching, so for them, their refusal to partake of Communion could very well have been damning.

Take this passage for example. In Mark 10:17 Jesus is asked, " 'Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' " To which Jesus replied in part, "...go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." Here we have Jesus telling a young man who has followed the Ten Commandments since his youth that he will not have eternal life unless he gives away his possessions. Does that mean that I am bound for Hell because I still have possessions? In my case, as of right now, no. But if at some later date I was called by Christ to do such a thing and did not, it could very well mean I will not see Heaven. Jesus telling the Jews they must eat of His flesh and drink of His Blood is a similar demand. It is their outright defiance, their selfishness and pride that would have ****** them, not whether or not they had taken Communion, specifically.

Saint Paul says as much in 1 Corinthians 11:27 when he says, "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord." Do these contradict Jesus' statements that whoever eats of His table will have eternal life? No, because Jesus was concerned with interior conversion and growth in holiness. Drinking of the Cup can be the greatest blessing or the worst curse, depending upon your disposition. In one case you are accepting Christ in a most intimate and profound way, in another you are profaning the very blood that sanctified you. In the second case, partaking of the Body and Blood of Christ would have the opposite effect of what Christ promised.

Am I making sense?

Neal

 

[Theresa]

I apologize if I confused you. There are still beliefs that I need to refine. I do think, if I can say more clearly, that Catholocism or Christ's Church is a great gift. God gave us the means to come to him through his Church. He loves us so completely, "that He gives Himself to them and enters into them as a personal source of grace. Jesus shares with His disciples His most intimate possession, the most precious thing that he He has, his own self..." Karl Adams-The Spirit of Catholosism

It's just basically that you need the Eucharist to have a greater union with Christ. The Truth that Christ instilled on the Earth is the Kingdom of God. That Truth includes the Eucharist. I guess I just believe that while you can have a relationship with Christ without it, you can't become fully alive with the Truth, you can't be as closely united and as thoroughly cleansed for the journey without the Eucharist.


All the good that is in me is due to Holy Communion. I owe everything to it. I feel that this holy fire has transformed me completely. Oh, how happy I am to be a dwelling place for You, O Lord! My heart is a temple in which You dwell continually.. (1392)

Hidden Jesus, in You lies all my strength. From my most tender years, the Lord Jesus in the blessed Sacrament has attracted me to himself. Once, when I was seven years old, at a Vesper Service, conducted before the Lord Jesus in the monstrance, the love of God was imparted to me for the first time and filled my little heart; and the Lord gave me understanding of divine things. From that day, until this, my love for the hidden God has been growing constantly to the point of closest intimacy. All the strength of my soul flows from the Blessed Sacrament. I spend all my free moments in conversation with Him. He is my Master. (1404 )

Divine Mercy in my Soul-Saint Faustina


I suppose all I want to say is that there is a greater Spirituality and union with Christ than can be imagined. I would recommend, if you have the slightest inclination, to approach it with trust.

Theresa

 

[Caedmon]

Yesterday at 05:45 PM ZooMom said this in Post #11 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=651652#post651652)

Then, my dear, you are under Grace.

What does that mean?

As it is, you are only worried that it *might* be His Will, but you just aren't sure because it *might not* be.

Yeah, I don't know yet. I just think I don't know if it could be or not.

As I said, you are under Grace...until you know.

I still don't know what that means.

 

[panterapat]

It is all a great mystery. Remember that faith is a gift. And remember that to those given much, much will be required. We as Catholics, who receive the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus through the Eucharist will be held to a much higher standard than one who has not received the Eucharist.

I am awed at the faith and good works of many Protestants who live so close to God and yet do not have the Eucharist to nourish them. They must be a lot stronger than me for I would wither up and die without the Eucharist.

In Christ, Patrick

 

[empther]

In some respects God chooses to treat all humanity as one. We all sin through Adam. We are all saved by Jesus' sacrifice.

The community of saints doesn't just mean we have a permanent hotline to Heaven. We support each other in our common need for grace. Contemplative nuns spend all their time praying for the rest of the world.

That some people accept the Eucharist brings grace into the world. Now if that saintly old woman in the front pew who has gone to Mass and received Communion everyday for the last 80 years and hasn't committed a mortal sin since she was a teenager were to die this minute and bounce straight up to Heaven, I think that some of the surplus grace that she's accumulated would be spread around to the less deserving of us miserable slackers, by the infinite mercy of God.

Now if nobody on earth accepted the Eucharist, we might all be in very serious trouble.

Norman Boutin