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No Law = No Transgression = Sin no longer exists

98cwitr

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Romans 4:15
because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Seems to be a common theme around here, to say we are not under the law but grace. I totally agree with this statement. Fellowship with Christ is not about a checklist of 613 things you must do in order to be saved, it's about faith. That is comforting.

Now ask yourself this question: Does sin still exist?

If you answered yes, you'd be right. We see sin everywhere including in ourselves.

So by logic, if there is sin there is a transgression? If there is a transgression there must be a law of some sort.

There is and it's pretty obvious. It's the Law of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:2) and it only requires two things (Luke 10:27-28):

1. Love the Lord with all your heart, this means that you put God first in your life and not second to yourself. It means trusting and delighting in the truth of God.

2. Love your neighbor as yourself.

That said, both of these are pretty loaded statements and actually require a lot of attentive efforts on the part of a follower of this doctrine.

My point is this: If you say there is no law, or that you're not under any law, then you are saying we are all sinless, for where there is no law there is no transgression.

Keep in mind that even though we are not under OT Law, there is still two products of the fruit of the Spirit, and that is loving God and loving others. Do this and live.
 

PROPHECYKID

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Your statement is very thoughtful. I got a few comments. Those same 2 laws you mentioned, Jesus said on those 2 hangs all the law and the prophets. It means that OT law does have its basis on these two laws and it is no surprise that the 6 of the 10 commandments can be summarized as "love your neighbour as yourself", as Jesus said. The first 4 then show love for God.

I have a question though, can we find the law of the holy spirit in the bible? One might say the holy spirit didn't tell them this, while someone else might say the holy spirit told them that exact thing. Eventually everyone says the holy spirit tells them all sorts of different things. That is why I believe the bible contains what we need to know and it is not left up to what we feel might be right or wrong. So then if there exists a law of the holy spirit, it must be somewhere in the bible.

Additionally, I would like to point out that when Paul is writing his books and when John is writing that sin is the transgression of the law, there was only the old testament in existence, so this must be considered as well.
 
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ivebeenshown

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I like your post.

Regardless of the fact that Christ was directly addressing the apostles when he said he was sending a Comforter, the Holy Ghost, to teach them in all things and bring to remembrance whatsoever Christ had said (the Word of God) the truth is that not only was this confirmed to be for all Christians in the first epistle of John, but it was part of the covenant that God promised us all in Jeremiah.

If we turn to the God, the Holy Spirit that is in us, and put all of our faith in Him, he does truly teach us in all things and keeps us in the Way which is Christ Jesus, so that we will most surely dwell in the presence of the Father.
 
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Yarddog

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Keep in mind that even though we are not under OT Law, there is still two products of the fruit of the Spirit, and that is loving God and loving others. Do this and live.
This in mind, what do we do or not do to love God and neighbor?
 
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Exactly asyou pointed out we are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus and not the law of Moses which includes the ten comandments. It does not mean we are lawless.
 
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Frogster

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It just means that it is no longer imputed, or counted, because he condemend all our sins already, rom 8;3.

So for us, it means were are in the new man, and do not want law rousing the old creation, the flesh. It was condemned, so sins cant be reckoned to a dead creation, that had sin already imputed or counted to it.

That is why it says sin was in the world, but not counted until transgression system came. rom 5. No more Moses, no more reckoning. That is one of the reasons paul said, if i rebuild moses in gal 2;18, then..then, i am found a transgressor again.

Here is a morning treat.

then he adds,

“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
 
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I am curious,where does the Bible indicate the law of the Holy Spirit is the ten commandments? I know a man that converted to the SDA movement from a main line church. He never considered the Sabbath prior to becoming involved with the SDA movement yet claims to have read the Bible. I am going huh? If he had read the Bible he had been exposed to the Sabbath alot. Why did not he feel that he should observe the Sabbath prior to meeting up with the SDA folks? Was it really the Holy Spirit that showed him this? It really seems odd to me that the Holy Spirit did not speak to his heart prior to his involvement with the SDA.
Additionally, I would like to point out that when Paul is writing his books and when John is writing that sin is the transgression of the law, there was only the old testament in existence, so this must be considered as well.
Well that may be true but Peter equates Paul's writings as scripture - II Pet 3:16.
 
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Emmy

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Dear 98cwitr. Seen as you describe, that will be the life in Heaven with God and each other. And that is what God wants from us, we are made in God`s imagine, and we know that God `s Plan for us is to be as perfect as God is perfect and live in Love, Peace and Harmony hereafter. We know what our Heavenly Father wants, we have Jesus who reconciled us to God, and we have the Holy Spirit, who is on Earth to finish what Jesus, our Saviour, started. Jesus taught us to pray: " give us today our daily bread, and forgive us our sins/transgressions as we forgive those who sin/transgress against us." We also have Jesus`s Guidance, He is The Way, and the Holy Spirit will give us His Power and Help, to be overcomers. Say NO to temptation, and any act or deed which is without Love, and Self first. We also have years to learn to love/treat others, friend or foe, as we would like to be treated. If we sincerely do that, we will find that liking becomes loving, we will enjoy life and each other. We might stumble and fail often, but we help each other up again, and keep trying. God will see our sincere efforts, and approve, as well as give us His Blessings. God loves us, we will be His sons and daughters. Until we truly try, we will never know what we are missing. I say this with love, cwitr. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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I never said that. The question I asked was to show from the bible what is the law of the holy spirit.
 
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from scratch

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I never said that. The question I asked was to show from the bible what is the law of the holy spirit.
You have way to much history here on CF. It is my opinion from that history your intent is to imply that the law and specifically the ten commandments is the law that the Holy Spirit leads us to and in. That is not what Jesus said the Holy Spirit would teach us.
 
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Frogster

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I never said that. The question I asked was to show from the bible what is the law of the holy spirit.

The Holy Spirit is a person, not a rule.

Walk in him, and you do not walk in flesh.
 
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Yarddog

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If you believe the man Jesus Christ is the LORD, you must have faith that his HOLY SPIRIT will keep you in His Way.
That is true but it doesn't answer my question.
 
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ivebeenshown

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I never said that. The question I asked was to show from the bible what is the law of the holy spirit.

Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

This in mind, what do we do or not do to love God and neighbor?

Have faith in the Holy Spirit to keep you in His Way, which is to love God and neighbor.
 
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Frogster

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OT? Paul used it it in Romans 1;17 and Gal 3:11.

"The just shall live by faith" Hab 2:4.

Faith is in opposition to law and works, see here,,


11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”


Live by faith..the NASB says On the contrary..

12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them

Or live by law..

There ya go, wonderful usage of the OT by Paul.
 
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Frogster

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That is true but it doesn't answer my question.

Just live in the Spirit bro.. simple faith.

Paul told the colossians don't add on, just be rooted in the faith they were taught. Col 2:6-7. We need to be rooted in him, not self.

No harsh treatments of the body, no relgion..asceticism.

In other words, none of mans additions.

As we received him..as we recieved him..

How did you do that?
 
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PROPHECYKID

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Well what is the point if you are going to respond to implications rather than what I asked. I didn't direct the question to you in the first place, but if you want to answer or address my post at lead respond to what I said and not what you think I might say. I asked the OP so show from the bible what is the law of the holy spirit. Do you have a scripture which says what this law is?
 
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jmacvols

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I have tried to argue this exact same thing in another thread...good luck for some people apparently think they do not sin.
 
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