No Indigenous Children's Bodies Found

[JimR-OCDS]

I was listening to DR Jorden Peterson's interview of Douglas Murray.
In the interview, Murray said that the claim that 215 bodies of
indigenous children were found in a mass grave on the property
of a Catholic School, was based on ground-penetrating radar and
not one body was ever found or exhumed.

I thought, is he correct stating this ?

So I googled it and sure enough, here is the story which the New York Times and
Washington Post, which were quick to condemn the Catholic Church for, ignored.


In Kamloops, Not One Body Has Been Found
In Kamloops, Not One Body Has Been Found

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Lauren Southern covered this a while ago as well. There is little to no evidence of Catholic schools murdering their students and burying them in mass graves.

The moral indignation and targeting of Churches should be an indictment against the media that perpetuated this narrative on the basis of a claim by an activist group.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

An apology was something the aboriginal people from Kamloops BC had long done without from the RCC so the accomplishment there must be recognized.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

An apology was something the aboriginal people from Kamloops BC had long done without from the RCC so the accomplishment there must be recognized.

However, after the report, churches where burned and vandalized,
was this justice ?

We don't know the facts of why the indigenous children were brought to the school.

We've only heard the indigenous people's side of the story.

 

[JosephZ]

We don't know the facts of why the indigenous children were brought to the school.

Children were brought to these schools to keep them separated from their parents and customary way of life in order for them to assimilate in a "civilized Christian" society.

I have taken some excerpts from "SUFFER THE LITTLE CHILDREN: The Aboriginal Residential School System 1830 - 1992" to show this.

These schools, centralized off-reserve boarding institutions, would provide training for boys in husbandry, agriculture and mechanical trades; and for girls in domestic arts and science - dairying, needlework and cooking. It was by such instruction that "the material and extensive change among the Indians of the rising generation may be hoped for." In such schools under the supervision of non-Aboriginal teachers and isolated from "the influence of their parents" pupils would "imperceptibly acquire the manners, habits and customs of civilized life."

...This vision included first a justification for disrupting the parenting process in Aboriginal communities, secondly, a detailed strategy for re-socializing Aboriginal children within the schools and, lastly, schemes for the assimilation of school graduates.

The vision was anchored to the fundamental belief that the central mechanism in the process of assimilation was education and that "the best method to adopt to secure to the pupils in after life the greatest possible benefit as the result of the education afforded them" was residential schools. That certainty, the belief that children would have to be separated from their families to be educated, was rooted in the Department's and churches' analysis of the failure of day schools. But it had a more profound source as well. It was the logical consequence of the European representation of the character and circumstances of the Indian "race.

In the minds of Departmental officials and missionaries, the young were the only ones who could be rescued and that could only be done if, as E. Dewdney, the Superintendent General of Indian affairs in Macdonald's second term as prime minister, wrote, children were removed from deleterious home influences." The churches' agreement provided moral backing to Dewdney's resolute position. The Catholic Archbishop of St. Boniface and four other Bishops petitioned the government to take children as young as six for it was important that they be "caught young to be saved from what is on the whole the degenerating influence of their home environment"... children had to be removed from their families, from evil surroundings, and kept constantly within the circle of civilized conditions" - residential schools.

...the felt need to separate "savage" parent from child. Together, ideology and rationale, constituted the justification for the concerted attack by Church and State upon Aboriginal culture making the schools sites of ontological struggle seen most clearly in the curriculum's attack on Aboriginal languages. The thought even before the deed - before the system took full physical shape across the country - was violent in its intention to "kill the Indian in the child" for the sake of Christian civilization.

 

[Archivist]

I grew up in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, former home of the Carlisle Indian Industrial School. It served as the model for schools designed to Americanize Native Americans. The founder of the school, Richard Henry Pratt, specifically said that the school’s purpose was to “Kill the Indian, Save the Man.” Students were forced to cut their hair and adopt western names and were punished if caught speaking in their native tongue or engaging in native practices. A very sad place.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

And this has little to do with the subject of the thread, which was the fact
that the accusation that the school killed 215 indigenous children and put
them into a mass grave was never proven, but in fact is shown to be false.

The article I posted is from January 11, 2022. The story came out just a year ago
and the NYT's and other news media ran with it. They even increase the number as
possibly being 1000 indigenous children who were killed by the school.
The report was made to the Canadian Press, then to the US News like the NYT, by Tk'emlúps te secwépemc First Nation Chief Rosanne Casimir after an anthropologist, Sarah Beaulieu.

As the article reported, not one body was ever found and the excuse Sarah Beaulieu gave was that
the radar couldn't show exactly what was in the ground other than tree roots, rocks and other debris. In other words, there was no mass grave.

The report published in the press sent outrage in the people in Canada and even the US, when churches were set on fire and vandalism of Catholic churches took place.

I posted the article to help set the story straight.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

It's psychological projection to claim the traditionally pro-life side to be secretly taking lives.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

However, after the report, churches where burned and vandalized,
was this justice ?

We don't know the facts of why the indigenous children were brought to the school.

We've only heard the indigenous people's side of the story.

sometimes investigation starts with what you have.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

sometimes investigation starts with what you have.

But what they had was nothing. For an investigation to begin, they have to have reasonable
cause. In this case, there was none.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

But what they had was nothing. For an investigation to begin, they have to have reasonable
cause. In this case, there was none.

Anybody with a functioning ability of a 2 yr old can see that!!!!

 

[JosephZ]

And this has little to do with the subject of the thread, which was the fact that the accusation that the school killed 215 indigenous children and put them into a mass grave was never proven, but in fact is shown to be false.

You said you didn't know the facts of why the indigenous children were brought to the school, now you know. It was to keep the children separated from their parents and customary way of life in order for them to assimilate in a "civilized Christian" society.

 

[renniks]

But what they had was nothing. For an investigation to begin, they have to have reasonable
cause. In this case, there was none.

But everyone that read this on the news is going to spend the rest of their lives believing that the Catholics were killing Indian children. That is sad.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You said you didn't know the facts of why the indigenous children were brought to the school, now you know. It was to keep the children separated from their parents and customary way of life in order for them to assimilate in a "civilized Christian" society.

I only know from one side of the story currently, which you posted

The claim of 215 children being killed by the school and buried in a mass grave turned
out to be false, which I just learned of yesterday. I believed the main stream media's
reports on it last year, only to learn it was false.

The same could be true on why the children were brought to the school. One fact
I learned is that it was the Canadian Government who brought them to the school,
not the school itself. For all we know there were indigenous leaders complaining to
the government about the poverty and illiteracy of the indigenous population.
As a result the government sought to correct it, but did so poorly.

Resentment and ingratitude are the current trends by some in our society and looking to tear
down the past because of racism is destroying the West.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

But everyone that read this on the news is going to spend the rest of their lives believing that the Catholics were killing Indian children. That is sad.

Sad, but unfortunately true and used as an excuse to attack the Catholic Church and it's members.

Even Pope Francis apologized for it, but I'm sure he hasn't learned the latest about the killing of
the 215 children by the Catholic school being fabricated.

 

[JosephZ]

I only know from one side of the story currently, which you posted

No, what I shared was official Canadian policy. It's well documented and the information at the link I shared is heavily sourced. Neither the Canadian government nor the church deny the purposes of the residential schools and the reasoning behind the separation of children from their parents. These residential schools were part of a system that aimed to wipe out native culture in an attempt to civilize and Christianize the natives.

The same could be true on why the children were brought to the school. One fact I learned is that it was the Canadian Government who brought them to the school, not the school itself.

The Truth and Reconciliation Commission interviewed over 6,000 witnesses many of whom were parents and children who testified that they were forced to attend these schools against their will.

Even Pope Francis apologized for it, but I'm sure he hasn't learned the latest about the killing of the 215 children by the Catholic school being fabricated.

turned out to be false, which I just learned of yesterday.

Nothing has been shown to be fabricated or proven to be false.

The claim of 215 children being killed by the school and buried in a mass grave turned out to be false, which I just learned of yesterday.

I haven't read any claims that the 215 children were "killed" by the school. What I have heard is that the deaths were a result of negligence and mistreatment. Even if these children had died of natural causes after being yanked from their parents and culture, it would be equally horrific.

The National Truth and Reconciliation Commission has records of at least 51 children dying at the Kamloops Indian Residential School between 1915 and 1963. It shouldn't be a surprise that there have been graves found on the school's grounds. There have been multiple witness accounts of children being buried at the school and the recent discovery of graves using ground penetrating radar confirmed these witness accounts.

The graves were never a secret: Why so many residential school cemeteries remain unmarked

From the earliest days of the Indian Residential School system, the federal government openly acknowledged high rates of student mortality. An official 1907 report into Manitoba Indian Residential Schools even included charts cataloguing pupils as either “good,” “sick” or “dead.”

It does not matter if this is a mass grave or an unmarked cemetary. It does not matter if these children died from illness, murder, neglect or abuse. What matters is that they were not cared for, respected or acknowledged in life or in death.

There was never an official policy on how to handle the dead from Indian Residential Schools, but because the Department of Indian Affairs refused to ship home the bodies of children for cost reasons, it follows that most were buried on or near school grounds.

“Subjected to institutionalized child neglect in life, they have been dishonoured in death.”


No co-operation, no comment: Missionary Oblates who ran Kamloops school won’t release records

The federal government and churches have fought for more than 20 years over making records available to groups trying to identify residential school victims

VANCOUVER — A lack of access to records and first-hand data would hinder the ability to identify the remains of 215 children found at a former residential school in Kamloops, says the director of the Indian Residential School History and Dialogue Centre at the University of British Columbia.

Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond said the federal government and churches have fought over making the school records available to groups working to identify victims of the residential school system for more than 20 years.

“It’s just so frustrating, it’s so frustrating to the communities, so frustrating to the families and it’s something the Truth and Reconciliation Commission fought for every single year of its existence,” she said in an interview.

The response from politicians and church officials that the discovery is “shocking” rings hollow, she said, as Indigenous people have tried to raise awareness about the issue for years.

".....First Nations communities are still battling the federal government and Catholic Church in court to access school records, Turpel-Lafond said."

".....The Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate ran about 47 per cent of Canada’s residential schools, including the one in Kamloops. The Oblates have refused to release their records to help identify the remains found and did not return a request for comment on the matter.

Father Ken Thorson, the provincial superior of the Oblates, said in a statement earlier this week that the order is growing into a “deepening awareness” of the harm to Indigenous people caused by colonization and the role it played.

 

[Homeowner]

Even Pope Francis apologized for it, but I'm sure he hasn't learned the latest about the killing of
the 215 children by the Catholic school being fabricated.

He didn't actually apologize. Rather "expressed his sorrow"

Don't you wonder why Vatican with their historical archives didn't deny that any killings by their missionaries had happened whatever this particular site was a true mass grave or not ?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Well, as the article states, not one body was found at the alleged site.

If this was a false claim, what else was ?

You actually believe the school killed children because of mistreatment and abuse ?

I'm skeptical, and the article of this thread makes me even more skeptical of the truth that took place there and when it took place.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

He didn't actually apologize. Rather "expressed his sorrow"

Don't you wonder why Vatican with their historical archives didn't deny that any killings by their missionaries had happened whatever this particular site was a true mass grave or not ?

The Catholic Church doesn't run the school and the program was originally setup
by the Canadian Government.

It's the same with two Catholic schools flying the BLM and Rainbow Flags and the bishop told them to take them down, yet they refused. The Bishop has no authority over those schools despite being Catholic Schools.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Here's another article on the same subject......

Not One Corpse Has Been Found In The ‘Mass Grave’ In Canada

From the article:

Professor Jacques Rouillard, professor emeritus in the Department of History at the Université de Montréal, recently published a detailed essay in The Dorchester Review on what has been found at this and similar sites — and what hasn’t. There is no evidence, writes Rouilliard, in any of the historical records kept by the government, that deaths of indigenous children at these schools were ever covered up, or that any corpses were ever deposited in mass, unmarked graves which were kept secret, and parents of the children were never informed, as tribal groups repeatedly charged and the media dutifully repeated last summer.

There are indeed individual graves on the grounds of the Kamloops school, which includes a still actively used cemetery. Children who died at the school when it was still in operation — most often of tuberculosis but also of influenza, yellow fever, and typhoid — were sometimes buried in that cemetery in individual marked graves, alongside priests and nuns who were buried there.