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Don't worry, Erin. Some people are just slaves to their emotions and allow things to affect them in ways they never should.Erinwilcox said:I'm sorry that she feels this way. I thought that the post sounded very loving.
That's easy - lots of things. Not just hell, but also sin - both its penalty and its power. And the Devil - we're saved from his power as well.PapaLandShark said:What, then, are we saved from?
Yes, and it's a glorious inconsistency.Erinwilcox said:(but of course, most Arminians don't follow it to its logical end anyway).
Erinwilcox said:I'm sorry that she feels this way. I thought that the post sounded very loving.
unfortunately, we no longer have 1 or 2 cent coins in australia.There is simply no logic to this argument...
The Bible is quite clear. Accept it or reject it.
Just my $0.02...
Erinwilcox said:I'm sorry that she feels this way. I thought that the post sounded very loving.
PapaLandShark said:What, then, are we saved from?
not necessarily all orthodox people believe this.Just to provide some perspective...
Orthodox Christianity teaches that, after this life is over, God will bathe all humans in the light of his love with absolutely no discrimination and no cruelty. This experience will be bliss for those who would prefer to be transfigured by this love and will be painful for those who would prefer to retain their malice, ignorance, and selfishness.
We can imagine that some people who have currently rejected a belief in the Trinity will nevertheless experience the love of God as bliss. We can also imagine that some people who have defended a belief in the Trinity will nevertheless experience the love of God as painful. (Such will be the case, for example, for John Calvin should he refuse to repent for his treatment of Michael Servetus.)
We can also imagine that everybody will experience the love of God as bliss (apokatastasis ton panton), and that everybody will experience the love of God as painful (this is my own personal prediction).
Thus, Orthodox Christians do not believe in "hell" as Protestants use this word (the idea of God glorifying himself by rendering infinite penalties upon non-believing sinners).
What is the ultimate conclusion of this doctrine? Because it sounds universalistic to me.Cappadocian said:Just to provide some perspective...
Orthodox Christianity teaches that, after this life is over, God will bathe all humans in the light of his love with absolutely no discrimination and no cruelty. This experience will be bliss for those who would prefer to be transfigured by this love and will be painful for those who would prefer to retain their malice, ignorance, and selfishness.
We can imagine that some people who have currently rejected a belief in the Trinity will nevertheless experience the love of God as bliss. We can also imagine that some people who have defended a belief in the Trinity will nevertheless experience the love of God as painful. (Such will be the case, for example, for John Calvin should he refuse to repent for his treatment of Michael Servetus.)
We can also imagine that everybody will experience the love of God as bliss (apokatastasis ton panton), and that everybody will experience the love of God as painful (this is my own personal prediction).
Thus, Orthodox Christians do not believe in "hell" as Protestants use this word (the idea of God glorifying himself by rendering infinite penalties upon non-believing sinners).
Erinwilcox said:Found this in the Christian teen section. Is it really possible for somebody to read their Bible and come away with saying that there is no hell? Can a person be saved and believe that there is no hell? What would they need to be saved from?
Notice, all you who might be reading this, I didn't mention any names, so you can't get on my case.
Orthodox Christians submit their consciences and minds to the Orthodox Church. We have no doctrine of an "individual priesthood" or a tradition of "free-thinking" or dissent. An Orthodox Christian is a Christian who believes Orthodox doctrine. Any Orthodox Christian who doesn't hold this theology of the afterlife needs to speak with his/her priest in order to get themselves straightened out.pjw said:not necessarily all orthodox people believe this.
What is the ultimate conclusion of this doctrine? Because it sounds universalistic to me.
Do you even know what love is?Cappadocian said:There are no conclusions any more ultimate than this -- we pray and hope for apokatastasis, but we recognize the genuine possibility that everyone will feel pain while bathed in divine love throughout eternity. The one thing we can be sure of is God's justice and holiness -- that is to say, his virtue.
Cappadocian said:Orthodox Christians submit their consciences and minds to the Orthodox Church. We have no doctrine of an "individual priesthood" or a tradition of "free-thinking" or dissent.
An Orthodox Christian is a Christian who believes Orthodox doctrine. Any Orthodox Christian who doesn't hold this theology of the afterlife needs to speak with his/her priest in order to get themselves straightened out.
There are no conclusions any more ultimate than this -- we pray and hope for apokatastasis, but we recognize the genuine possibility that everyone will feel pain while bathed in divine love throughout eternity. The one thing we can be sure of is God's justice and holiness -- that is to say, his virtue.
ummmm. yes, but it's not even all theologians who believe this so, ...???Orthodox Christians submit their consciences and minds to the Orthodox Church. We have no doctrine of an "individual priesthood" or a tradition of "free-thinking" or dissent. An Orthodox Christian is a Christian who believes Orthodox doctrine. Any Orthodox Christian who doesn't hold this theology of the afterlife needs to speak with his/her priest in order to get themselves straightened out.
I think so, Jon, why do you ask?Jon_ said:Do you even know what love is?
Soli Deo Gloria
Jon
edb19 said:To once again quote my pastor (this is my favorite of everything I've heard him say)
We're saved by God from God for the glory of God.
Well, I'm just confused by your illustration. You say that in the end times, all will be bathed in God's love and that it will be bliss for some and pain for others. Love is a volition. It is a disposition, an inclination of the will. Love is not an effect. It is a cause. What is the effect that causes this bliss and pain?Cappadocian said:I think so, Jon, why do you ask?
i think the orthodox belief is that for those who of their own free will reject this love, it will be pain. for those who receive it, it will be bliss.Well, I'm just confused by your illustration. You say that in the end times, all will be bathed in God's love and that it will be bliss for some and pain for others. Love is a volition. It is a disposition, an inclination of the will. Love is not an effect. It is a cause. What is the effect that causes this bliss and pain?
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