No Death Before the Fall?

[MasterOfKrikkit]

In my opinion? It was meant as food for the angels - not us.

OK, that's fine... but doesn't answer my question. God told Adam not to eat of it. But until Adam ate of it, how would he know that it's wrong to eat of it? Logical paradox.

Did you mean AVian Flu?

Yes and no. Fu as in kung fu -- skill or art. The phonetic similarity with something debilitating and infectious was deliberate, however.

 

[AV1611VET]

OK, that's fine... but doesn't answer my question. God told Adam not to eat of it. But until Adam ate of it, how would he know that it's wrong to eat of it? Logical paradox.

What paradox? He was told not to eat of it --- period.

16 ¶ And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Adam and Eve had their "10 Commandments", which consisted of only one proscript; and what did they do? Broke it.

Yes and no. Fu as in kung fu -- skill or art. The phonetic similarity with something debilitating and infectious was deliberate, however.

Ah, I get it now --- "AVian" --- as in "AV-like."

Sorry, I'm a little slow. I just recently went through a big debate with those who said the Bible mentions no dinosaurs out of one side of their keyboard --- then turned right around and said birds are avian dinosaurs out of the other side.

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

What paradox? He was told not to eat of it --- period.

Adam and Eve had their "10 Commandments", which consisted of only one proscript; and what did they do? Broke it.

Which they couldn't know was wrong because they had no knowledge of right and wrong until they did so. That's the paradox.

 

[AV1611VET]

Which they couldn't know was wrong because they had no knowledge of right and wrong until they did so.

How do you know? Adam walked with God in the Garden regularly (it is assumed). I'm sure God could have explained it to him --- in detail.

Do you know why the Death Penalty was not --- repeat: not --- enacted on Cain for killing Abel?

 

[ReverendDG]

How do you know? Adam walked with God in the Garden regularly (it is assumed). I'm sure God could have explained it to him --- in detail.

regularly? one day is regularly?
what planet is that regularly on?
the only reason you assume this is because otherwise, the bible makes no sense.
so you come up with an ad hoc answer that adds to the bible.

Do you know why the Death Penalty was not --- repeat: not --- enacted on Cain for killing Abel?

because god wanted to make cain an example of what he does not want and the consequences of pride, hate and ignoring god

 

[AV1611VET]

regularly? one day is regularly?

It is assumed that Adam and Eve lived in the Garden for about a year before the Fall.

 

[Nathan Poe]

What paradox? He was told not to eat of it --- period.

What reason did Adam have to obey God? Sans fruit, he didn't know any better -- Didn't really "know" much of anything, did he?

Adam and Eve had their "10 Commandments", which consisted of only one proscript; and what did they do? Broke it.

And how were they to know that this would be a bad thing, lacking knowledge of good and evil, and thus, of consequences?

 

[Nathan Poe]

How do you know? Adam walked with God in the Garden regularly (it is assumed).

You know what happens when you assume, AV.

I'm sure God could have explained it to him --- in detail.

God could've also put a fence around that tree. God, in all those alleged explainaions, could've warned them about that darn serpent -- God's oversights abound.

Do you know why the Death Penalty was not --- repeat: not --- enacted on Cain for killing Abel?

Because the myth needs to explain where the Hewbews' enemies came from?

 

[J0nDaFr3aK]

God could've also put a fence around that tree.

yeah, he could have, but man was created free to make any decision, even agaisnt himself and God. the reason why God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil i think it's beyond our understanding.. that can't be explained..

Because the myth needs to explain where the Hewbews' enemies came from?

No, Israel's enemies come from abraham and agar's illecit son, ismael. The arab world is his offspring.. ismael and isaac were not good friends ever since their birth..i guess

 

[J0nDaFr3aK]

yes, God used to walk with adam and it's not just a guessing. Jesus came on earth to primarly reconcile us with the Father, to rebuild that lost intimate relationship between God and man that sin broke and to bring us back to what God's creation was originally intended for.. bring glory to Him

so if it was an intimate relationship, i dont think adam had to pray to hear God's voice.. man was pure, unsinful, righteous in God's sight so I guess he was allowed to see his face and not die

 

[Sp0kenF0r]

It is assumed that Adam and Eve lived in the Garden for about a year before the Fall.

actually jewish Sages believe adam was only on earth not even 24 hours before he sinnned

 

[TheManeki]

All this Edenic talking is making me think of Laurie Anderson's "Langue d'Amour," from the album Mister Heartbreak. Good song.

Let's see. Uh, it was on an island. And there was this snake.
And the snake had legs. And he could walk all around the island.
Yes. That's true. A snake with legs.
And the man and the woman were on the island too.
And they were not very smart.
But they were happy as clams. Yes.
Let's see. Uh...then one evening the snake was walking about
in the garden and he was talking to himself and he saw the woman
and they started to talk. And they became friends.
Very good friends.
And the woman liked the snake very much. Because when he
talked, he make little noises with his tongue, and his long tongue
was lightly licking about his lips.
Like there was a fire inside his mouth and the flame
would come dancing out of his mouth.
And this woman liked this very much.
And after that, she was bored with the man.
Because no matter what happened,
he was always as happy as a clam.

 

[AV1611VET]

actually jewish Sages believe adam was only on earth not even 24 hours before he sinnned

That could very-well be. I have a hard time believing that though, as Adam was to name all the animals, was put to sleep, was given a wife, and walked and talked with God in the Garden.

Thanks for the info. I was wondering how the Jews viewed it.

 

[Psudopod]

<staff edit>

Nah, the man of steel never broke a sweat.

 

[Nathan Poe]

yeah, he could have, but man was created free to make any decision, even agaisnt himself and God. the reason why God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil i think it's beyond our understanding.. that can't be explained..

Pretty foolish then to place it so prominently at the cornerstone of a religious belief, isn't it?

No, Israel's enemies come from abraham and agar's illecit son, ismael. The arab world is his offspring.. ismael and isaac were not good friends ever since their birth..i guess

Then the story must serve a different purpose -- it's obviously meaningless if read as literal history.

 

[Nathan Poe]

That could very-well be. I have a hard time believing that though, as Adam was to name all the animals, was put to sleep, was given a wife, and walked and talked with God in the Garden.

Thanks for the info. I was wondering how the Jews viewed it.

Discovering an aspect of the Biblical mythology that even you think is farfetched is sure to blow out a few Irony Meters.

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

How do you know? Adam walked with God in the Garden regularly (it is assumed). I'm sure God could have explained it to him --- in detail.

Are you deliberately missing the point now? Senor Poe got it, apparently, but you can't or won't (I wonder which?). How could Adam understand that something was wrong without understanding the concept of right and wrong? If he already understood the concept of right/wrong (good/evil, etc), why should it matter that he ate of the Tree of that knowledge? If he didn't, why does God punish him for a wrong act?

IOW: God could tell Adam not to eat the fruit until God's blue in the face, but until Adam possesses the knowledge of good and evil, which he can obtain only by disobeying God, how can he know that disobeying God is wrong?

Do you know why the Death Penalty was not --- repeat: not --- enacted on Cain for killing Abel?

Let's say "no" (since any answer I have will be wrong, according to you, anyway). Nor do I know why it's relevant. Enlighten me.

 

[J0nDaFr3aK]

Pretty foolish then to place it so prominently at the cornerstone of a religious belief, isn't it?

Well, I'm sure God had a more than a foolish reason to place the tree there. Yeah, I've always asked myself why but i dont think i need an answer.. that wouldnt change history

 

[Sp0kenF0r]

<staff edit>

***its garbage youre posting in a Christian forum where these beliefs are very prevalent hence they are apart of our bible. you should find a forum site that is NoN-christian related to post in, that should be more satifactory to you.

 

[AV1611VET]

***its garbage youre posting in a Christian forum where these beliefs are very prevalent hence they are apart of our bible. you should find a forum site that is NoN-christian related to post in, that should be more satifactory to you.

I'm not sure non-Christian scientific sites would have them, SF. They would probably listen to their anti-Christian tirades for a little bit, then kick them out. If they did accept these guys, these guys probably wouldn't stay long --- science is too boring. And after spending all day at work in a blaboratory, they sure don't want to log on to a science forum and discuss their boring subjects.