NO BACKBONE BENTLEY - He has sold out

[Floatingaxe]

The ministry is still looking for money though.

FreshFire is---but he is not leading FreshFire. It is a legitimate ministry.
Why should the people there suffer for the works of their fallen leader? If people feel led to give to that work, good.

 

[Svt4Him]

I know of this other leader who took one of his friends wife and knocked her up. Once it was going to be exposed, he then took his friend totally out of the picture for good then married his friends widow.

Want to know the really really sick thing? God still let him be king. Weird eh? Sometimes I think we need to sit God down and tell Him what we think.

 

[Alpine]

I know of this other leader who took one of his friends wife and knocked her up. Once it was going to be exposed, he then took his friend totally out of the picture for good then married his friends widow.

Want to know the really really sick thing? God still let him be king. Weird eh? Sometimes I think we need to sit God down and tell Him what we think.

Right. But we're not talking about a king. We're talking about a person in a leadership position in ministry. I really have no problem with him going through a process of restoration and going back into the ministry. But, it's been less than a year and everything is supposed to hunky dory now with everyone?

Shouldn't we expect more from our leadership?

They certainly seem to expect a LOT of us.

 

[LogosRhema]

What a disappointment, it really is.

He's gone for the new model (a new wife) and dumped 100's if not 1000's on their backsides with this decision.

It makes a mockery of the charismatic scene..when people are looking for stability, character, and a bit of genuine fruit.

GUTLESS is a strong word and I do not say that lightly.

No wonder the cults JW's and Mormons do so well, and are growing..all people want is someone to trust...and our mob are filled with freaks and fakes.

God forgive my strong tone....but its becoming a farce with the Profits, excuse me prophets...everywhere like a rash peddling the spineless gospel. (all gifts and no character)

Something needs to change...and quick.

Those poor kids !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meh.

Revelation 22
"11Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."

 

[brinny]

Jesus did not die for perfect people and God does not share His glory with anyone.

May the Lord's grace be on my brother Todd and both his ex-wife and his new wife and give my dear brother Mr. Happy peace and something to smile about.


“take these lips, so quick to criticize. take these lips give them a kiss”. - U2

how timely...i was just watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej8ElT9Freo&feature=channel

 

[ARBITER01]

No, see, you're not listening to me. Stop assuming I'm bitter and start listening to what I'm saying. I'm passionate, I'm not bitter.

I don't feel betrayed by Todd. I said from the beginning that Todd was either a wolf in sheep's clothing or a poor deluded fool. (Not in that many words, of course).

I feel disgusted that the Church won't call a wolf a wolf.

I'm not talking about hating Todd or stoning him or anything of the sort.

I'm talking about the rest of us starting to realize that it's time we started expecting holiness from those who would lead us. It's time we looked at people's characters instead of their charisma. It's time we started expecting that someone who really is close to God is going to be Godly!

I'm telling you that God does not tolerate this nonsense. He is Holy. He will not allow someone to sully His Holiness. That is why Todd is no longer making a mockery... God pulled TB down, of that make no mistake.

I feel bad for TB because instead of someone correcting him and telling him "listen man, you're caught up in a bunch of hype and you like the fame and attention that you're getting. But you're completely missing God here, your theology is bad, your marriage is falling apart, you're either committing or about to commit adultery and you're sowing to the flesh. You need to get your act together." People are saying "oh, I just want to give him a hug and restore him, let's not judge him, he's doing ok. Don't throw stones." Yadda, yadda, yadda.

No, no he's not doing okay. The man is as lost as lost can be and everyone is acting like he's some sort of fallen leader. He's not. He never should have been where he was and that's just as much the rest of the church's fault as it is his.

Restore him to what? To the same mistakes he was making before? To the same fleshy, godless nonsense?

How is that loving him? To let him continue down a path that leads to death is not love.

How is it loving the rest of the Body to continue to willfully close our eyes to the sin that DAMAGES US?!?!


Exactly what I'm talking about. If the Church is acting exactly like the world then the church has lost its saltiness. Immorality, adultery, etc is of the flesh and the world.


Bah. Jesus said you'll know a tree by its fruit. He did not say "you can't know what's in the heart of that tree because even though it's producing bad fruit, it may have a good heart."

Bad fruit = bad tree

I am so sick to death of us all refusing to call a spade a spade. Are we all blind and deaf?

Who cares? No, honestly, who cares whether we "cared for" his ministry or not?

It's not an ice cream flavor that we can say "Oh, I never cared for rocky road."

Either it is of God or it's not of God. Period.


There is nothing more good that God's Holiness.

P.S. I like you twiggy. I hope that you can see that my vehemence is anger at the sin that is destroying the Church in America and leading the sheep out in the wilderness to be slaughtered by the wolves.

I get passionate about it, but that doesn't mean I don't like and respect the people who may disagree with me.

Very good post!

Although the church is reluctant to stand by scripture and call bad fruit, bad fruit, I wanted to point something out,..

Joh 16:33 These things have I said to you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye will have trouble: but, take courage, I have vanquished the world.

No matter what may be going on with GOD's church, we are able to find peace with Jesus, if we will seek Him and spend time in prayer to Him on a consistent basis. This section,..

Eph 4:3 giving diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

...cannot happen if we each are not dependent on Jesus in our lives for sanctification, our peace must come first from Him. Our holiness with Him is never a finished product either, we can never be as pure as GOD is, so it is a consistent endeavor.

Whatever may be going on in the church, we each are called to be conformed unto the image of HIS Son, it is an individual responsibility that the church cannot perform for us, only Jesus can, He is our sanctifier.

People will continue to be lead astray, let them, be what Jesus is calling you to be with Him. I'm not trying to preach to you, just give a different view of what we are to do in the body of Christ.

 

[ARBITER01]

how timely...i was just watching this:

Bah,... I never was all that caught up in Washers sermons, they are too emotional and unedifying.

 

[Svt4Him]

Right. But we're not talking about a king. We're talking about a person in a leadership position in ministry. I really have no problem with him going through a process of restoration and going back into the ministry. But, it's been less than a year and everything is supposed to hunky dory now with everyone?

Shouldn't we expect more from our leadership?

They certainly seem to expect a LOT of us.

Just so I understand your point, we're not talking about a leader, we're talking about a leader. And we should expect more from our leaders?

 

[brinny]

Bah,... I never was all that caught up in Washers sermons, they are too emotional and unedifying.

you mean this one? It seems to have disappeared from your post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej8ElT9Freo&feature=channel

yet he speaks the truth.....

 

[ARBITER01]

you mean this one? It seems to have disappeared from your post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej8ElT9Freo&feature=channel

yet he speaks the truth.....

Yea I erase the link to not hog up the thread with copies of it.

He does speak the truth, but I find it to be merely intellectual. At the moment I have a pastor that is very strong in the word, to where his preaching is consistently edifying my spirit inside throughout his message. I leave a sermon of his overflowing in my spirit for a couple days. That's the Holy Spirit when that is happening.

Washer on the other hand is trying to appeal to my conscience, and I consider that sort of preaching on a lower level. Don't get me wrong, the man speaks truth in his message, I just want it to be edifying, not emotional and intellectual.

 

[brinny]

sounds like you're speaking of "style" Arbiter......maybe? sounds a bit confusing....emotional and intellectual? I agree with you that Washer speaks the truth, so much so that he's been labeled scandalous because many of our congregations cannot tolerate the stark truth of His message.

 

[ELSHADDAI]

STOP. STOP, ye with no sin cast the first stone, Is this not what Jesus said to the crowd who was ready to stone the woman caught in adultery, this is what is happening here, stop throwing stones, if there is one out there with no sin, then I will understand, we need to love and pray for him unconditionaly, just as Jesus has forgiven him so we need to do so as well. I am not excusing his actions, but nowhere in the bible does it say we need to judge each other, Jesus said if we judge others we will be judged in the same way. the only person you are allowed to judge is yourself.
Forgive the man for his actions, unforgiveness hinders not only your prayers, but his as well, set him free and put him under your prayer cover, love him as Jesus loves him and you.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I am not excusing his actions, but nowhere in the bible does it say we need to judge each other, Jesus said if we judge others we will be judged in the same way. the only person you are allowed to judge is yourself.
Forgive the man for his actions, unforgiveness hinders not only your prayers, but his as well, set him free and put him under your prayer cover, love him as Jesus loves him and you.

To the contrary, we the Church have an obligation to judge those inside the churches. We need to exercise those muscles of wisdom and insight in Christ if we are going to be able to judge rightly in the Kingdom of the New Earth.

Our hope and prayers should be regarding his correction and restoration, that those responsible to carry him through that are doing it.

1 Corinthians 5:12-13
It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”

 

[ARBITER01]

sounds like you're speaking of "style" Arbiter......maybe? sounds a bit confusing....emotional and intellectual? I agree with you that Washer speaks the truth, so much so that he's been labeled scandalous because many of our congregations cannot tolerate the stark truth of His message.

Truth is not necessarily edification, that only happens from The Holy Spirit. Washer's message is dry to me, mere emotion and intellect. I just draw the line more specific is all, some folks enjoy that sort of message for a while, I don't.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Bah,... I never was all that caught up in Washers sermons, they are too emotional and unedifying.

They are not entirely emotional, or I would be riveted. The point is, he boldly proclaims the truth. Emotions and intellect should both come into play. He preaches the gospel message to the unsaved, and preaches holy living to the already saved.


It's OK to favour one style of preaching over another. Washer may not appeal to some, but he is gifted by God for what he does.

It certainly edifies.

 

[Alpine]

Just so I understand your point, we're not talking about a leader, we're talking about a leader. And we should expect more from our leaders?

Paul certainly did!

An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

Titus 1:6-9

 

[BenAdam]

FreshFire is---but he is not leading FreshFire. It is a legitimate ministry.
Why should the people there suffer for the works of their fallen leader? If people feel led to give to that work, good.

FreshFire USA is Todd's vehicle. FreshFire Canada is giving up the FreshFire name to Todd.

 

[BenAdam]

The issue here isn't whether or not Todd should be forgiven, of course he should be, without question. The issue is that Rick Joyner is attempting to say Todd is ok, he has repented, he will preach again. What a load of hooey.

Twiggy mentioned bringing a car accident to the mind of passengers and drivers after the fact. Should we hold Todd's feet to the fire about the wreck he got in? Yes, he should never drive again, doesn't mean we don't love him. Doesn't mean we don't have to deal with the fallout from his wreck either.

 

[ARBITER01]

They are not entirely emotional, or I would be riveted. The point is, he boldly proclaims the truth. Emotions and intellect should both come into play. He preaches the gospel message to the unsaved, and preaches holy living to the already saved.


It's OK to favour one style of preaching over another. Washer may not appeal to some, but he is gifted by God for what he does.

It certainly edifies.

No, emotions shouldn't come into it, but love should since we are to present the truth in love.

All I ever see Washer doing is pointing the finger in his dry sermons, always talking about how bad something or someone is, it get's old quick since it is not uplifting.

If I can't put up with his soulical preaching in clips, I don't know how folks are able to put up with it in a church.

This is an off topic thing, so I'll leave it with this.

 

[brinny]

No, emotions shouldn't come into it, but love should since we are to present the truth in love.

All I ever see Washer doing is pointing the finger in his dry sermons, always talking about how bad something or someone is, it get's old quick since it is not uplifting.

If I can't put up with his soulical preaching in clips, I don't know how folks are able to put up with it in a church.

have you ever listened to an entire sermon? I'm wondering what part of the above video you objected to and why......did you listen to the entire video? He does acknowledge he's not speaking to make anyone feel good or to coddle anyone.....he simply sheds the glaring lighyt of truth.....it leads to self-examination.....he speaks on those things in the Bible that many of us would rather sweep under a rug.....after all, who wants to contemplate what God's wrath would possibly be like or if Jesus the Christ would say to any of us to depart from Him for He never knew us...it boils down to this...is God everything to us?

indeed, it is not off topic, since it deals directly with a leader who proclaims to follow Christ, declares that he puts God first, and then does what is an abomination in the sight of God and man....someone needs to say it.