Nihilism

[Im_A]

i was on wikipedia.org researching about Nihilism. actually i was trying to find philosophical songs about nihilism for a poster here on CF, but i got distracted by this part in the description of Nihilism.

"Nietzsche described Christianity as a nihilistic religion because it evaded the challenge of finding meaning in earthly life, creating instead a spiritual projection where mortality and suffering were removed instead of transcended. He believed nihilism resulted from the "death of God", and insisted that it was something to be overcome, by returning meaning to a monistic reality (he sought instead a "pragmatic idealism," in contrast to prominent influence Schopenhauer's "cosmic idealism")."

any thoughts?

 

[PapaLandShark]

"creating instead a spiritual projection where mortality and suffering were removed instead of transcended."

Nope...That phrase is all I need to loose interest in commenting ( other than this ). Brilliantly blind man...or someone on Wiki quoted him out of context.

 

[Horab]

hi all-yeah i was involoved in this group that advocated nihilism, they also mixed hedonism with it and thought they came up with a unique philosophy.

and Neitzch was often quoted by them, its too dark for me. Extreme nihilism says there are no values, purposes or loyalties and that the only thing to do is destroy. Kind of depressing.

-Horab

 

[Eudaimonist]

"Nietzsche described Christianity as a nihilistic religion because it evaded the challenge of finding meaning in earthly life [...]. He believed nihilism resulted from the "death of God", and insisted that it was something to be overcome, by returning meaning to a monistic reality"

any thoughts?

While I'm not exactly a Nietzschean, I basically agree with the above. This is the project of the Fellowship of Reason.

 

[Im_A]

While I'm not exactly a Nietzschean, I basically agree with the above. This is the project of the Fellowship of Reason.

i'm not a nihilist, and i am a Christian, but i have a hard time disagreeing with it myself.

 

[Im_A]

and what strikes me is, the way it is explained of Nietzche, it seems so evident in modern Christianity...i personally can't say Christianity as a whole, cause there just seems to be a world of difference between like Eastern Christianity and Western Christianity, but i'm putting Western Christianity in here.

we are told we are born into sin, no hope, nothing. the only hope we have is to believe in Jesus. but even after the initial conversion, there is still a lack of hope still evident. the never-ending battle between the old and new man. any virtue/goodness is futile in Western Christianity. the cliched' statement is still alive..."good people can go to hell."

the point? this seems rather nihilistic after all. mankind without conversion, their good deeds are meaningless and have no value. this earthly life is less important as the new life that is yet to be. their values are not looked good upon, or they are not looked upon as having any value, cause of their lack of conversion, or maybe even deconversion...and that is modern Christianity, my guess would be more nihilistic towards those who deconverts.

and still even in the conversion side, it still shows traits of nihilism. no matter what we do, we can't deserve/earn God's grace. any good deed has no value to God cause of our imperfection. no matter how many times we pray, witness, do good deeds, we are still worthless sinners, that will never win the battle between the "old" and "new" man, and nothing is fixed with this life. all the attempts of "value" is sought in the sole/most of the time, aim is for the afterlife...the hope that we are found to be called, "good and faithful servant."

i'll end it here for now.

 

[Cleany]

i was on wikipedia.org researching about Nihilism. actually i was trying to find philosophical songs about nihilism for a poster here on CF, but i got distracted by this part in the description of Nihilism.

"Nietzsche described Christianity as a nihilistic religion because it evaded the challenge of finding meaning in earthly life, creating instead a spiritual projection where mortality and suffering were removed instead of transcended. He believed nihilism resulted from the "death of God", and insisted that it was something to be overcome, by returning meaning to a monistic reality (he sought instead a "pragmatic idealism," in contrast to prominent influence Schopenhauer's "cosmic idealism")."

any thoughts?

funny because i think that proper christianity is actually all about finding meaning in this earthly life.

of course the chap nietzsche lived in a time when christianity needed to apply spirituality almost arbitrarily to the "afterlife" in reaction the the scientific "conquoring" of the material world, so his idea of christianity was a warped one. of course we know better now dont we ?!?!?!?!

 

[Im_A]

funny because i think that proper christianity is actually all about finding meaning in this earthly life.

of course the chap nietzsche lived in a time when christianity needed to apply spirituality almost arbitrarily to the "afterlife" in reaction the the scientific "conquoring" of the material world, so his idea of christianity was a warped one. of course we know better now dont we ?!?!?!?!

yea. but it'd be better that it gets more in the majority instead of the "s"elect few...

 

[levi501]

"Nietzsche described Christianity as a nihilistic religion because it evaded the challenge of finding meaning in earthly life, creating instead a spiritual projection where mortality and suffering were removed instead of transcended.

Makes sense.
You don't explore this world because "god did it" answers all questions.
We can't truly know why "God did it"... therefor we can't truly know anything.
Traditional/fundmentalist Christianity is a type of nihilism.

 

[PapaLandShark]

My purpose is to love the Lord and my neighbor. I find that more than sufficient in regards to meaning.

I also find that I do not understand everything about atomic physics, gravity, angelic beings, God, and a host of other topics. Does this mean that I do not know anything? No.

I do not know all but I know enough and I'm joyful to continue to grow in my understanding as God wills. This is not Nihilism.

 

[Im_A]

My purpose is to love the Lord and my neighbor. I find that more than sufficient in regards to meaning.

I also find that I do not understand everything about atomic physics, gravity, angelic beings, God, and a host of other topics. Does this mean that I do not know anything? No.

I do not know all but I know enough and I'm joyful to continue to grow in my understanding as God wills. This is not Nihilism.

i'm not saying i agree with Nietzche's judgement of all Christianity, but on modern Christianity? i certainly agree with his assessment.

and i do agree that loving God and love your neighbor as yourself has meaning, and value. i think that's what proper Christianity is all about, and it gives tremendous meaning.

but the reasons why we do that is what i see this going towards. would one love your neighbor as yourself, if you weren't a Christian? is it all based upon the fact that God commanded us to love people that you actually love? and if you doing good for the benefit of yourself is the main purpose of you loving (i'm not meaning to aim this at you specifically btw), that's hedonistic...to do things for solely one's benefit. and how many people would have changed their lives without the conversion to Christianity?

and i think at least, and i could very well be wrong, where Nietzche may be talking about here. the life here on earth means nothing to them prior to their conversion. and everything is/seems to be based not on sole pure intentions, but the sole purpose for the afterlife, which the sight of the afterlife, gives so many people meaning/value for the here and now, and how can the hope for the afterlife being the core of our good deeds towards humanity bring any value to our motivations and moral good deeds?

but even after that...well i wont' repeat myself.

God Bless

 

[PapaLandShark]

i'm not saying i agree with Nietzche's judgement of all Christianity, but on modern Christianity? i certainly agree with his assessment.

I would agree this is often how modern Christianity is viewed. Is this view flawed? Desperately so. First off most view Christianity as a religion. It is not. Second many who profess to be Christian are, in fact, not. So I will agree with the perception but not with the assessment.

and i do agree that loving God and love your neighbor as yourself has meaning, and value. i think that's what proper Christianity is all about, and it gives tremendous meaning.

Indeed

but the reasons why we do that is what i see this going towards. would one love your neighbor as yourself, if you weren't a Christian?

No I would not. It is not possible to do this without the power of the Holy Spirit. I would always place myself before my neighbor. How much more difficult to love God then? Impossible.

is it all based upon the fact that God commanded us to love people that you actually love?

No. It's based on the fact that God loved us first even though we, in fact, knew Him not and hated Him. That in spite of our being enemies of God He sacrificed Himself for our transgressions, was crucified, and rose again defeating Death. That he offers the Gift of eternal life to those who would repent and trust in Him.

In the face of such Grace and Love how could I not lay my life at His feet, and being conformed in His image, love Him and my neighbor? The command, in my mind, is for those searching for Him. The reality is that those who believe do these things out of love and gratefulness.

and if you doing good for the benefit of yourself is the main purpose of you loving (i'm not meaning to aim this at you specifically btw), that's hedonistic

And blind, foolish, un-Christian, self or man centered...

...to do things for solely one's benefit. and how many people would have changed their lives without the conversion to Christianity?

Many people have life changing experiences outside of Christianity. But again what is the focus? Are you living your life for Christ or for yourself? They are not compatible.

and i think at least, and i could very well be wrong, where Nietzche may be talking about here. the life here on earth means nothing to them prior to their conversion.

And this is illogical. Not laying into you my friend. Life here on earth meant quite a bit to me before my conversion and now means a great great deal more. I no longer worry about, or fear, what is to come.

and everything is/seems to be based not on sole pure intentions, but the sole purpose for the afterlife, which the sight of the afterlife, gives so many people meaning/value for the here and now, and how can the hope for the afterlife being the core of our good deeds towards humanity bring any value to our motivations and moral good deeds?

If Heaven and Hell are a given...where should your focus be as a believer? If you believe and trust in the promises made by our Lord Jesus then you have no fear of Hell and Heaven will come. You are free to pursue a true relationship with your Creator in Love and to relate to your neighbor in that Love. Without distractions. Free...like the gift of Grace given that none should boast save in the Lord.

but even after that...well i wont' repeat myself

God Bless

And you Brother.

 

[Livindesert]

The everyday Christian. -- If the Christian dogmas of a

revengeful God, universal sinfulness, election by divine grace and the danger of eternal damnation were true, it would be a sign of weak-mindedness and lack of character not to become a priest, apostle or hermit and, in fear and trembling, to work solely on one's own salvation; it would be senseless to lose sight of ones eternal advantage for the sake of temporal comfort. If we may assume that these things are at any rate believed true, then the everyday Christian cuts a miserable figure; he is a man who really cannot count to three, and who precisely on account of his spiritual imbecility does not deserve to be punished so harshly as Christianity promises to punish him. from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.116, R.J. Hollingdale transl.]

I always found this quote interesting.

 

[Im_A]

The everyday Christian. -- If the Christian dogmas of a

revengeful God, universal sinfulness, election by divine grace and the danger of eternal damnation were true, it would be a sign of weak-mindedness and lack of character not to become a priest, apostle or hermit and, in fear and trembling, to work solely on one's own salvation; it would be senseless to lose sight of ones eternal advantage for the sake of temporal comfort. If we may assume that these things are at any rate believed true, then the everyday Christian cuts a miserable figure; he is a man who really cannot count to three, and who precisely on account of his spiritual imbecility does not deserve to be punished so harshly as Christianity promises to punish him. from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.116, R.J. Hollingdale transl.]

I always found this quote interesting.

that quote practically said in a nutshell what i was going to type, but descided not to, to start up another thread in another forum and to give myself sometime to reply. thank you.

 

[Livindesert]

that quote practically said in a nutshell what i was going to type, but descided not to, to start up another thread in another forum and to give myself sometime to reply. thank you

No problem.

 

[PapaLandShark]

I always found this quote interesting.

How so?

 

[Livindesert]

How so?

That is how I use to think as a devout Christian. Now that I am not a Christian it is interesting to see a non-Christian who had the same thoughts. Of course he expressed them a little more harshly but the same as i had thought.

 

[PapaLandShark]

Ah...kk. It seems to me that Nietzche's entire philosophy stated thusfar here on Christianity could be summed up with "These are my pet peeves and I can't be bothered to look any deeper"

Don't get me wrong...He had some valid points...but there seems to be an unstated arguement behind his thoughts that never truly was addressed.

 

[Livindesert]

revengeful God, universal sinfulness, election by divine grace and the danger of eternal damnation were true, it would be a sign of weak-mindedness and lack of character not to become a priest, apostle or hermit and, in fear and trembling, to work solely on one's own salvation; it would be senseless to lose sight of ones eternal advantage for the sake of temporal comfort. If we may assume that these things are at any rate believed true, then the everyday Christian cuts a miserable figure; he is a man who really cannot count to three, and who precisely on account of his spiritual imbecility does not deserve to be punished so harshly as Christianity promises to punish him. from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.116, R.J. Hollingdale transl.]

So in your opinion what part of this statement dose not make sense?