Nicene Creed

[Dominus Fidelis]

Do you all believe every word of the Nicene Creed? I tried looking in the FAQ and it would appear that Messianic Jew is not "Christian" per se, but Jewish with a Messianic belief added onto Judiasm.

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The Nicene Creed

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

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I'm curious about which parts, if any, you don't accept?

 

[Hix]

How much of it isnt accepted is down to the individual.

I think though Messianic Judaism does fit with all of the Rambam's thirteen principles of faith for Judaism which are:
1) I believe with perfect faith that G-d is the Creator and Ruler of all things. He alone has made, does make, and will make all things.
2) I believe with perfect faith that G-d is One. There is no unity that is in any way like His. He alone is our G-d He was, He is, and He will be.
3) I believe with perfect faith that G-d does not have a body. physical concepts do not apply to Him. There is nothing whatsoever that resembles Him at all.
4) I believe with perfect faith that G-d is first and last.
5) I believe with perfect faith that it is only proper to pray to G-d. One may not pray to anyone or anything else.
6) I believe with prefect faith that all the words of the prophets are true.
7.) I believe with perfect faith that the prophecy of Moses is absolutely true. He was the chief of all prophets, both before and after Him.
8) I believe with perfect faith that the entire Torah that we now have is that which was given to Moses.
9) I believe with perfect faith that this Torah will not be changed, and that there will never be another given by G-d.
10) I believe with perfect faith that G-d knows all of man's deeds and thoughts. It is thus written (Psalm 33:15), "He has molded every heart together, He understands what each one does."
11) I believe with perfect faith that G-d rewards those who keep His commandments, and punishes those who transgress Him.
12) I believe with perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah. And, though he may tarry, I shall await His coming every day.
13) I believe with perfect faith that the dead will be brought back to life when G-d wills it to happen.

Personally there are a few things I dont accept from the Nicean creed, but with others there may not be as many etc etc. Messianic Judaism is in that way very varied. Having said that I doubt that many messianics would agree with the "one true catholic and apostolic church" part *shrugs*

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[Charlesinflorida]

One of the problems I have with the Nicene creed is that when it was formulated, a congress of bishops from all the churches was brought together to decide how it should read, what should be included. The churches of Palestine, the Messianic Jews were barred from this meeting because they were still obedient to the commandments of God and maintained Sabbath and the festivals. In the eyes of the Catholic church they were Heretics. It was soon after this that enforcement of such creeds lead to the inquisition, which resulted in the deaths of millions of faithful believers. Shall I describe to you some of the horrors commited against Messianic Jews, because of such creeds?

I think it is better at this point to not hold each other accountable for our fathers sins, and be careful not to perpetuate them. For this reason I would no longer sign the bottom line on this document, even though much of it is agreeable.

There is (was) the opinion in Catholicism that if you were not part of the Catholic church then you were not saved and were bound for hell. My faith is in God though Mashiach Yeshua Adonai, and not in a congress of men. Membership in that church is not salvation, neither is being a Messianic. What matters is faith in Yeshuas atoning sacrifice.

What we do in keeping the law, is obedeice out of love for God, and because it is such a blessing to us as well in the process. We love keepng his law, for it is a Joy to do it. How does one "Follow" a God other than through obedience?

Many christian churches post or display the Ten commandments, and fight to have them posted in courts and schools. That is good. But it would be better to be obedient to them, and the church is not and claims, to their own destrucion, that they are no longer valid for the believers. Then why bother to post them.

Paul speaking about becoming a Jew says circumcision means nothing, and not being circumcised means nothing( in regards to our salvations) what means something(is important) is keeping the law. This is how we become sanctified and a people who live like sons of the King.

Ro 2, I cor 7

This is the creed that God gave us, Torah. It is the instructions of God for successful living as a Human being. You see Hebraic thought is different than Greco-Roman thought. It is not what you profess, or what you say you believe, faith is not a statement of belief, faith is action, how you live. According to the sages the first thing one is asked before the judgement seat is not "what did you believe". It is "how did you conduct your business affairs?" Was your life according to God law?

Charles the Messimaniac

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

It was soon after this that enforcement of such creeds lead to the inquisition, which resulted in the deaths of millions of faithful believers. Shall I describe to you some of the horrors commited against Messianic Jews, because of such creeds?

Off topic, but if you want to document the "millions" killed in the Inquisitions from a reputable history source, then please do....wacko internet sites need not apply.

Many christian churches post or display the Ten commandments, and fight to have them posted in courts and schools. That is good. But it would be better to be obedient to them, and the church is not and claims, to their own destrucion, that they are no longer valid for the believers. Then why bother to post them.

What Church says the 10 commandments are not valid any longer? Certainly not mine.

What no longer applies is the ceremonial law. St Paul says it has been nailed to the cross and is null and void. The Church agrees.

 

[ShirChadash]

Once again, Mods: I am wondering to what degree will DOF be allowed to argue the responses of the Messianics on this "question" thread, leading to its closure because we Messys argue our positions? Probably my understanding is off... I thought that non-MJ's can only ASK the question, and question for more clarity, etc., but not argue points back on this forum? I don't feel this forum remains a haven for MJ's when individuals seem to make us their "pet project" for the week and come around to argue, not to learn.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I am here to learn, thats why I asked. If someone repeates things they heard about my Church worshipping statues and killing millions of people, I should be able to ask for a reference for that claim, no?

 

[ShirChadash]

This:

What no longer applies is the ceremonial law. St Paul says it has been nailed to the cross and is null and void. The Church agrees.

is arguing your stand. Not asking ours.

 

[ShirChadash]

This:

Off topic, but if you want to document the "millions" killed in the Inquisitions from a reputable history source, then please do....wacko internet sites need not apply.

is not asking us our stand.

 

[ShirChadash]

I am here to learn, thats why I asked.

I sincerely doubt this, DOF.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Sure it is. I want to know where you get your understanding.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I sincerely doubt this, DOF.

Thats fine. Your doubt doesnt effect the truth.



I do honestly want to know if you believe the Nicene Creed or not.

 

[ShirChadash]

LOL. The tone of your posts here speaks for itself, and I am no fool. Ergo, I do not believe you. You're right, Truth is truth.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

LOL. The tone of your posts here speaks for itself, and I am no fool. Ergo, I do not believe you. You're right, Truth is truth.

I said from the beginning I didn't want to debate here, over and over. I want to learn. Some want to argue about how I am an idolator and a pagan, so I challenge that for formal debate.

Can we please stick to the subject?