Nice guy synodrome?

[SuperTech]

I'm on vacation and a little bored so I decided to go on the Internet and read up on what the secular world has to say about attracting the opposite sex (yeah, I know, but bear with me for just a minute!) The consensus from DeAngelo's "Double your Dating" video series (only saw day one of three) and the other PDFs I read is that to get a woman interested in you is to be "cocky and funny" and not to be a nice guy. You are suppose to not tell them you are interested in them and you are to keep them at a distance so they keep wanting "more". DeAngelo recommends finding a flaw in the woman and then tell her about her flaw so you can communicate with her on a different level (yeah, OK). Of course, he goes into a 45 minute discussion on how Charlie Darwin's evolution theory created all of these reactions in the animal kingdom and eventually us (which I promptly skipped over).

Is this how women really are? If a man discusses his feelings with you do you think he is a wuss? Do nice guys really finish last? All the secular "how to date women" guides seem to indicate you need to play a game where each side plays by different rules and that if you do not play by these rules that you miss out connecting with the other person.

I should state that I do not have much experience with women past being friends and I have never be out on a date. I've been talking with a guy at work and the dates he goes on never pan out more then a couple of weeks. So I get to thinking that maybe there is a game out there and I should learn the rules before I start even trying to date someone.

Cain never had this problem, lucky guy.

 

[wildthing]

Yep it's a big game. And rules change by the minute. The biggest gamers I know of were in my single christian group.

 

[kelco]

Not all women enjoy head games. And IMHO I would much rather date a nice guy with a sense of humor. Nice guys do win. Just be yourself and everything will work out if it's meant to.

 

[lovemysoldier]

I'm on vacation and a little bored so I decided to go on the Internet and read up on what the secular world has to say about attracting the opposite sex (yeah, I know, but bear with me for just a minute!) The consensus from DeAngelo's "Double your Dating" video series (only saw day one of three) and the other PDFs I read is that to get a woman interested in you is to be "cocky and funny" and not to be a nice guy. You are suppose to not tell them you are interested in them and you are to keep them at a distance so they keep wanting "more". DeAngelo recommends finding a flaw in the woman and then tell her about her flaw so you can communicate with her on a different level (yeah, OK). Of course, he goes into a 45 minute discussion on how Charlie Darwin's evolution theory created all of these reactions in the animal kingdom and eventually us (which I promptly skipped over).

Is this how women really are? If a man discusses his feelings with you do you think he is a wuss? Do nice guys really finish last? All the secular "how to date women" guides seem to indicate you need to play a game where each side plays by different rules and that if you do not play by these rules that you miss out connecting with the other person.

I should state that I do not have much experience with women past being friends and I have never be out on a date. I've been talking with a guy at work and the dates he goes on never pan out more then a couple of weeks. So I get to thinking that maybe there is a game out there and I should learn the rules before I start even trying to date someone.

Cain never had this problem, lucky guy.

NO, NO, NO! Not all women like games and tricks and not all men play games and tricks. The problem that you are experiencing has been around since the beginning of man. Humans are sinful by nature and if they aren't for God, then they are against Him and their hearts are currupted by the enemy. Do not conform to this world. If you want to find a suitable mate, pray and look for fruits of the spirit when choosing a mate. Lying and manipulating are NOT fruits of the spirit and are not what you want to be stuck with 'till death do us part'. Don't let the devil take your joy or convince you to join him by playing his games.

 

[Macrina]

Girl that likes nice guys here! Seriously, the head games are a huge turn-off; I can tell when he's trying to pull such a stunt, and it repells me. SINCERETY is a major trait that attracts me to a guy -- I like guys that are sweet, thoughtful, and can express their interest without being cocky or teasing about it.

I've known guys to sometimes say that "nice guys finish last." All I can say is, perhaps they are pursuing the wrong women. I don't think I'm the only one out there that doesn't like head games.

In some ways, I guess I'm a little old-fashioned, strange to say: If a man is kind and nice and respectful, if he has the courage to put himself out there to approach me, if he is genuine about his feelings for me and doesn't try to trick or tease me... that's the best way to my heart.

 

[lovemysoldier]

Good post, Macrina!

I AM A FEMALE AND I LOVE NICE GUYS AND HATE HEADGAMES!



See, Supertech? There are plenty of women out there that would be lucky to know you anc I pray that you find a good one.

 

[SeRapH&CheRi]

Supertech, take it from the the wisdom of the women who've posted here. NICE GUYS are where it's at. Especially for me. Headgames are a huge headache in and of itself. Authenticity and sincerety are some of the key traits that I look for in a guy. If these traits aren't there, then I'm outta there!

 

[fluffy_rainbow]

I think it depends on what the person is looking for. A woman looking for a "sugar daddy" or a quick romp in the sack isn't going to want the nice guy, because that presents the opportunity for deeper attraction and emotional attachment. Other women who really want the nice guy, but tend to go for the bad guy types were usually abused in some manner as a child or adult and it leads them to believe they don't deserve anything better.

Trust me, SuperTech, there are many of us women out there praying for a godly, nice guy.

 

[SuperTech]

Thanks for the information guys! I feel much better now.

 

[the_man]

We should define terms here. If 'nice' is to mean wimpy, then I would imagine this is a turn off for women. No woman wants a man that is so nice, he refuses to stand up for himself, refuses to offend people (that should be rightly offended by truth), that has no back bone. But if by 'nice' we mean he is kindhearted when he should be and fierce when he needs to be, then I would imagine that women are more attracted to this.

Christ wasn't a nice guy. No one hates or wants to kill nice guys. Jesus was kind and loving to those that needed it and was fierce and relentless with those that deserved it.

 

[mina]

Nice girls like nice guys. Girls that like head games and relationship games are drawn to the jerky and cocky guys. I know lots of single girls that want a nice, Godly , strong man that knows what it really means to be a man and not a jerk. The problem is that a lot of girls aren't meeting the nice guys and allow themselves to compromise for the sake of being in a relationship and give into the lies that all guys are like that. If you are a good guy, please keep being that. The world needs more gentlemen.

 

[Macrina]

The world needs more gentlemen.

 

[cnhn9801]

Just to put my two cents in - nice guys are great!! I think that the girls that are attracted to the cocky guys are often not the ones that you would be interested in building a good Christian relationship with.

 

[fishstix]

The consensus from DeAngelo's "Double your Dating" video series (only saw day one of three) and the other PDFs I read is that to get a woman interested in you is to be "cocky and funny" and not to be a nice guy. You are suppose to not tell them you are interested in them and you are to keep them at a distance so they keep wanting "more". DeAngelo recommends finding a flaw in the woman and then tell her about her flaw so you can communicate with her on a different level (yeah, OK). Of course, he goes into a 45 minute discussion on how Charlie Darwin's evolution theory created all of these reactions in the animal kingdom and eventually us (which I promptly skipped over).

That sounds like the perfect description of a total jerk. Someone who acts like that would be lucky not to get slapped by the girl.

 

[kelco]

If you are a good guy, please keep being that. The world needs more gentlemen.

 

[carmi]

DeAngelo recommends finding a flaw in the woman and then tell her about her flaw so you can communicate with her on a different level (yeah, OK).

That DeAngelo guy is really smart ... the more guys not only buy his book but also buy this advice (that is, they follow it to the letter), DeAngelo's chances of finding a date will be increasing.

 

[carmi]

DeAngelo recommends finding a flaw in the woman and then tell her about her flaw so you can communicate with her on a different level (yeah, OK).

Is this how women really are? If a man discusses his feelings with you do you think he is a wuss?

These things are not the same. Finding a flaw in someone and telling them is not necessarily the same as discussing your feelings. The flaw might be only in the eye of the beholder or the person who finds the flaw is judging from the outside and not speaks out of ignorance ... telling someone his/her flaws is expressing how you feel about that thing.

I don't know what "wuss" means ... but I would say that a guy who walks up to a woman and tells her about her flaws, must know women and must be able to identify what kind of woman he is dealing with. Otherwise, he should not be surprised if the woman just walks away and lets him stand there.

He might succeed with a woman who is looking for a father or teacher figure in her life. A woman who is content to wait for a guy to tell her right from wrong and what to do do and how to do it. But that does not mean, he will get away with it. It could also be that the woman just waits to get even or to show him his flaws.

Basically - looking at this method one needs to ask oneself is this the way I would like to be approached? How would I feel if someone where to this to me? How would I react if the hello is followed by a lecture on my flaws.

The only way it could work would be, if you know how to convey the message "I am only kidding", "I just want to get your attention" ...

I do have a problem with these kind of books. Somehow the authors assume that all people are alike and react alike.

 

[the_man]

DeAngelo recommends finding a flaw in the woman and then tell her about her flaw so you can communicate with her on a different level (yeah, OK).

Haha. This is very interesting. I think he (DeAngelo) is trying to give good advice but that it could be borderline horrific in it's implementation. Two examples: #1 You walk up to a woman and as part of the conversation you say, "I think you are way short." You might shortly find yourself on a collision course with a fist. #2 You walk up to a woman and as part of the converstion you say "You know, you are taller than I thought you were" Back handed compliment. She is more likely to take this with mixed feelings...*he thought I was short?* Get her off balance, try to psychologically gain control of her. It's a game. Neither is necessary.

The good advice he is trying to give is that, no matter who this woman is, she is human. The reason guys need to hear this is because it is easy (especially when you are nice guy #1, that I defined in my earlier post) to make a woman a goddess of some sort. Lap up everything she has to say, applaud everything she does and be generally agreeable. What he should have said is that a woman is human (not a goddess) so you should approach her confidently because as much as you know you have flaws, she could have just as many.

And Carmi is right, that will work on certain women. Such a tactic is unnecessary for real men.

 

[Sethy]

This is a topic thats always intrigued me. Infact ive done abit of experimenting in my time with the whole jerk/nice guy approach. Firstly Id call myself a nice guy, so do my friends, so do the girls I have ever had relationships with. But the sad thing is I never got those relationships by being a "nice guy" to begin with. Whenever Ive pretended to be cocky funny arrogant and confident Ive always been able to get interest from girls. I think geneticaly theres something that makes females attracted to that kind of behaviour.. perhaps not all females.. but the clear majority.

So whenever I acted in this manner I got the attention I was seeking... I was seeking it jsut for curiosity sake but never really was interested in any of the people I ended up attracting. Then about a year and a half ago I met a girl.. who I thought was a nice girl, she always wanted to meet a nice guy, didnt like cocky or jerky guys, I thought I had found the girl I could be myself around at last and could appreciate me for the nice guy I like to be. The funny thing is that she was only interested in me to start with because I pretended to be cocky, arrogant and she thought I was cool popular ectera.. even though she never conciously wanted a partner like that she was attracted to that. So we went out and then she grew fond of the true nice guy that I really was. But to gauge the initial interest I had to act like a jerk... So my advice is pretend to have some jerky qualities to gauge the initial interest and intrigue at a subconscious level then once you got their attention show them the nice guy you are and your set. Alot of the time its just about getting a foot in the door i think, because alot of females are attracted to that "jerky" characterstics and dont understand it, or are attracted to those characteristics even if they dont even want to be.

Well thats my experience, something to think about at least, and I wouldnt mind hearing a females perspective on what I said aswell!
(btw this is my first post.. the topic title caught my eye so i decided to dive right in hehe )

 

[fishstix]

This is a topic thats always intrigued me. Infact ive done abit of experimenting in my time with the whole jerk/nice guy approach. Firstly Id call myself a nice guy, so do my friends, so do the girls I have ever had relationships with. But the sad thing is I never got those relationships by being a "nice guy" to begin with. Whenever Ive pretended to be cocky funny arrogant and confident Ive always been able to get interest from girls. I think geneticaly theres something that makes females attracted to that kind of behaviour.. perhaps not all females.. but the clear majority.

So whenever I acted in this manner I got the attention I was seeking... I was seeking it jsut for curiosity sake but never really was interested in any of the people I ended up attracting. Then about a year and a half ago I met a girl.. who I thought was a nice girl, she always wanted to meet a nice guy, didnt like cocky or jerky guys, I thought I had found the girl I could be myself around at last and could appreciate me for the nice guy I like to be. The funny thing is that she was only interested in me to start with because I pretended to be cocky, arrogant and she thought I was cool popular ectera.. even though she never conciously wanted a partner like that she was attracted to that. So we went out and then she grew fond of the true nice guy that I really was. But to gauge the initial interest I had to act like a jerk... So my advice is pretend to have some jerky qualities to gauge the initial interest and intrigue at a subconscious level then once you got their attention show them the nice guy you are and your set. Alot of the time its just about getting a foot in the door i think, because alot of females are attracted to that "jerky" characterstics and dont understand it, or are attracted to those characteristics even if they dont even want to be.

Well thats my experience, something to think about at least, and I wouldnt mind hearing a females perspective on what I said aswell!
(btw this is my first post.. the topic title caught my eye so i decided to dive right in hehe )

There's a difference between confidence and acting like a jerk. Most people would find someone who appears confident and witty at least initially attractive. But most people would find someone who acts cocky and rude and does things like point out flaws (as described earlier in the thread) to be unattractive and more than likely absolutely repulsive. Confidence and niceness are not mutually exclusive. Nice guys can be/act confident and be nice at the same time. The important thing with confidence is not to overdo it or mix in a lot of cockiness and arrogance because that is when a person will end up coming across as a self-centered rude jerk.