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Newsflash: YECs secure release of criminals

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aussie4god

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There is alot in this thread thatto be honest I do find offensive.

I think it's ridiculous to say that YEC's would have convictions overturned like there was in the parody. I am however a Christian as I am sure people here are and I'm sure that no offense was intended, so moving on.

What I have done is found a few questions for all the evolutionists out there. Prove me wrong. I love a challenge.

  1. Where did the space for the universe come from?
  2. Where did matter come from?
  3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?
  4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?
  5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?
  6. When, where, why, and how did life come from non-living matter?
  7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?
  8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?
  9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to surviv e, or the species? How do you explain this?)
  10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)
  11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?
  12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occ urred if evolution were true?
 
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gluadys

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aussie4god said:
There is alot in this thread thatto be honest I do find offensive.

I think it's ridiculous to say that YEC's would have convictions overturned like there was in the parody. I am however a Christian as I am sure people here are and I'm sure that no offense was intended, so moving on.

What I have done is found a few questions for all the evolutionists out there. Prove me wrong. I love a challenge.


I am glad you are interested in learning about evolution. But I think it would be better to use your own questions than somebody else's list. How do I know if you even understand these questions?

So before I attempt to answer your list, let's see if you can answer mine (and these are not from a list).


LIST=1]
[*]Where did the space for the universe come from?

What does this question mean? Was space ever hanging around somewhere waiting to be put into the universe?


[*]Where did matter come from?

Do you know what E=mc2 means?


[*]Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?


Do you know the difference between prescriptive and descriptive laws? To which category do the laws of the universe belong?


[*]How did matter get so perfectly organized?

With what other universe are you comparing this one in order to call this one "perfectly organized"?


[*]Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?

What do you think the universe is made of?


[*]When, where, why, and how did life come from non-living matter?

Do you realize that a complete answer to this requires a full-scale knowledge of physics, chemistry, biochemistry and theology---and that is just to answer the how and the why. We can estimate the when, but how would one determine the where. Especially if life, as some suppose, originated in meteorites, not on earth.



[*]When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?

Why would it have to learn?



[*]With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?


Can you explain how bacteria reproduce sexually?


[*]Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to surviv e, or the species? How do you explain this?)

What does not wanting to reproduce have to do with it? How would they prevent themselves from reproducing? Can you imagine rabbits using condoms?

And btw, what chance of survival is there for a species that does not reproduce?


[*]How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)

How many DNA "languages" are there?



[*]Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?

Ever consider that the correct answer is "both"?


[*]Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occ urred if evolution were true?[/LIST][/QUOTE]

Can you provide documentation to the effect that natural selection only keeps a species stable? Have you checked out scientific papers on increasing complexity in the genetic code?


Now let's see one of your personal questions about evolution. Something you really would like to have explained for yourself.
 
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aussie4god

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Yes I do understand the questions being asked and I do have a pretty good understanding of science (not that I'm claiming to be an expert by any means.).

It is true that I have used someone else's list but tbh - i don't have time to write out a huge list and there the questions that I would like answers to anyway because I think the questions as a whole lead to the one underlying question I have of evolutionists which is do you believe in a creator.

Obviously on this site I would assume most do. So if there is a creator, why the need for evolution. Why couldnt a God who can do anything create the world in six days?
 
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KerrMetric

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aussie4god said:
I think it's ridiculous to say that YEC's would have convictions overturned like there was in the parody.

What???

I would have more respect for YEC's if they did campaign as in the original post. At least then they would be acting in a consistent manner. The reason this parody hits a nerve every time I see it is because this is what many YEC arguments are based upon. I cannot tell you how many times I have been told "well, we weren't there so how can science know?" - Well, most convicted murderers were convicted with no witness to the crime. They are convicted upon forensic evidence which is based upon extrapolation and inference in a scientific manner just like most scientific evidence for the past of the Earth. They are no different and so at least a YEC campaigning for convict release is being honest.
 
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chaoschristian

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aussie4god said:
I think the questions as a whole lead to the one underlying question I have of evolutionists which is do you believe in a creator.

Obviously on this site I would assume most do. So if there is a creator, why the need for evolution. Why couldnt a God who can do anything create the world in six days?

You must accept that all people who post in this section of CF do believe in God the Father Creator, the Word Speaker, the Light Bringer, the Chaos Binder, the Life Breather, because we have all witnessed to the CF statement of faith and none of us are allowed to question that witness.

That said, God could indeed create in six days. He could create in six nano-seconds if he wanted to. The point is that the true revelation of Creation itself tells us otherwise, and what it tells us is not in conflict with the true revelation of scripture.

It is not that there is a 'need' for evolution, it is that God's own work tells us 'evolution'.
 
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chaoschristian

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shernren said:
Ladies and gentlemen, 12 reasons to dislike Hovind. :p (I'll get back to this properly when I'm done with class.)

By themselves, they're not bad questions.

But when you package 'em up and put them into this context, they start to look more like the little creatures in a 'Whack-O-Mole' game.
 
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aussie4god said:
  1. Where did the space for the universe come from?
  2. Where did matter come from?
  3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?
  4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?
  5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?
  6. When, where, why, and how did life come from non-living matter?
  7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?
  8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?
  9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to surviv e, or the species? How do you explain this?)
  10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)
  11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?
  12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true?

1. The universe includes space and time. Without both there is no universe there is only a singularity which we don't know and probably cannot know what it looked like.

2. Matter comes from energy. The sum of all energy in the universe is very close to zero. In some hypothesies the energy for the entire universe was borowed from other regions like for instance a wave in the sea. At times the sea can by +/- 10 meters but on average it is always at sea level. Also since there is no concrete scientic explaination "we don't know" is a very good scientific way to answer this question. Philosophically you can say that Goddidit.

3. The laws arise from our descriptions it is very possible that all laws have always been there and are hardwired. Philosophically you can say that is how God wanted nature to act.

4. The afforementioned laws mean that matter will behave the way it did.

5. It comes from the energy that the system has and will always have. The entropy of the system is constantly rising but that does not mean that the entropy everywhere has to rise uniformly. What we see is pockets of "organised" matter in a "sea" of dust, gas and chaos. As time goes on if there is no Big Crunch those pockets will keep gaining entropy until the universe spends all the available energy for work ending in a dead state of infinite entropy.

6. When is approximately 4000 million years ago. Where we don't know. Why has two levels, it happened because the laws of nature (chemistry) made sure that it would happen if the right ingredients were found at a certain place. The second level is why the laws of nature functioned the way they did? This is pointless to be discussed in a scientific context, e.g. why does the oxygen colour our sky blue and not green? How is an interesting question take your pick there are many hypothesies out there some scientific some philosophical. Did you know that one hypothesis for abiogenesis is clay theory? It has even been accepted as possible by Dawkins the big bad atheist.

7. Life did not learn to reproduce itself. Reproduction is a major function of life. It is a very basic definition of what life does. If it cannot reproduce itself it is probably a rock or a piece of dung.

8. Can you spell hermaphrodite? Many plants and animals can reproduce sexually with themselves. Also many bacteria are capable of both sexual reproduction and asexual reproduction. So the sort answer: With itself.

9. What happens if a plant or animal does not want to reproduce? It has less mouths to feed (many animals and plants do not care for their young) and then what? It dies, its evolution stops and the genes that made it not care about its reproduction die with it. Is it so much of a surprise that most species are preoccupied with mainly two things?

9b. The drive to survive: Both the species as a collection of individuals and the individuals themselves want to reproduce and survive. There are different mechanisms used if you want to focus on that make a new thread.

10. Recombining, adding and removing letters (mutations do that too) and scrapping the versions that are not going anywhere (natural selection) can make a translated Nietzsche book into the KJV. The languages must be the same DNA/RNA recombination always wields DNA/RNA strings and never a hammer.

11. Possible yes. But that designer is pretty incompetent. (The song is very funny)

12. Mutations add more and more genetic base pairs and generate more variation as a species reproduces. Natural selection ensures that only the good changes survive. Natural selection is a by-product of the environment a species occupies as the envirnement changes so does the selective pressure. Also do not forget that as prey becomes better at avoiding predators, predators become better at catching prey. This is due to mutations, when one beneficial mutation gives the edge on a species we usually see another one in its enemy that doesn't mean that those mutations wouldn't happen but they would not have become so popular if selective pressure was not that great. If the enemy doesn't get a beneficial mutation to counter the first then it will follow the majority of species that ever lived on this planet to a special place called extinction and probably a museum.

Edit to add: The where did matter, space, the universe come from questions can be answered with Goddidit. But as Carl Sagan and myriad others point out this begs the question: Where did God come from? If you say that God is eternal then why not save a step and conclude that matter, space, the universe is eternal? Take it, chew it and tell me the answer.
 
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jereth

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Where did the space for the universe come from?

God.

Where did matter come from?

God.

Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?

God.

How did matter get so perfectly organized?

God.

Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?

God.

When, where, why, and how did life come from non-living matter?

God.

When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?

God.

Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?

Yes (to both).

Surprised?
 
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Assyrian

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aussie4god said:
Obviously on this site I would assume most do. So if there is a creator, why the need for evolution. Why couldnt a God who can do anything create the world in six days?
Jesus described his Father as 'the gardener'. Maybe God likes to grow things.

Assyrian
 
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jereth

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Assyrian said:
Jesus described his Father as 'the gardener'. Maybe God likes to grow things.

Or how about this:

YECism = God the lazy magician (abacadabra, snaps fingers, *poof* out comes the rabbit from the hat)
TEism = God the careful, perfectionist sculptor (hours of slow, loving, painstaking work)

Me, I prefer the latter.
 
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aussie4god

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jereth said:
Or how about this:

YECism = God the lazy magician (abacadabra, snaps fingers, *poof* out comes the rabbit from the hat)
TEism = God the careful, perfectionist sculptor (hours of slow, loving, painstaking work)

Me, I prefer the latter.

6 Days isnt exactly poof.

Plus, it's God where talking about here.

Unfortunately, rather than actually discussing the issue you choose to keep "looking down" on us who are YEC's.

I accept your views as your belief. You don't accept that there is another viewpoint. Not very Christian.

However, I am sure that you dont mean to offend so all is forgiven.

God Bless
 
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aussie4god

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artybloke said:
Yeah, and I am Marie of Romania...
Actually, it is something that even the most ardent athiest evolutionist will agree with. Life as we know it today can be dated back approx. 7000 years with a few exceptions.
 
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rmwilliamsll

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aussie4god said:
Actually, it is something that even the most ardent athiest evolutionist will agree with. Life as we know it today can be dated back approx. 7000 years with a few exceptions.

the first life on earth is dated at about 3.5 Billion years ago. i guess you can say that it goes back 7k years but that is deceptive. plus there are no exceptions, that is, any evidence of any unique forms of life less than 7k old.
 
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jereth

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aussie4god said:
Plus, it's God where talking about here.

No one disagrees with that, mate. The issue is how God chose to do things.

TEs often cop a heap of abuse for diminishing God's power, etc. But as my previous post tried to show, in some ways our view of God is more profound that the YEC "magician" idea. We believe that God cares so much about creation that he spent a very long time crafting it.

As an Aussie, you may have seen the TV ad for Kettle Chips. It depicts an old man with a small knife taking ages to sculpt a single chip out of a potato. Obviously he really cares about that chip. It's something like that.

Unfortunately, rather than actually discussing the issue you choose to keep "looking down" on us who are YEC's. ...
You don't accept that there is another viewpoint.

I don't believe I have ever looked down on YECs, and most of the other TEs on this forum don't either. I do accept there is another viewpoint, I just don't agree with it. And I don't think it's a gospel issue. (Can't say the same for many of the YECs here, sadly... see threads "Fight for the faith", "the Gospel and Theistic Evolution", etc.)

I was a YEC for 18 years. I am married to a YEC and have many YEC friends at church. That is enough to make me fully respect the YEC perspective. Won't stop me from arguing against it though. :D
 
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Willtor

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I don't even understand it. It can't mean species because even humanity dates back way before that. He can't mean individuals because I only date back about a quarter of a century. Aussie4god, what does it mean?
 
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