StrugglingSceptic said:
It doesn't matter what they take into account (neither argument takes into account that it is Sunday today, either). If the logical steps employed in the argument are all valid, then the argument as a whole is valid, and we have a contradiction.
But they are not...
What we have is this:
Statement x: It will not rain in Madrid today.
Statement y: Rain exists.
Therefore it will rain in Madrid and it contradicts statement x.
Such argument does not address the problem. It ignores information, I am not the only that has said this... Mr. David Gould said it from the beginning.
What is not the case? And how is it relevant whether the hypothetical knowledge can actually be acquired or not? The point is that a more informed rational decision on the contents of box 2, whether or not the knowledge can actually be obtained, will always be to choose both boxes, so the player should choose both boxes.
If you know that there is money in box 2... then you are an omniscient being... or at least omniscient regarding the content of the boxes.
If that's the case, then if could be a paradox where you could choose both boxes when there is money in box 2... or you could choose box 2 when box 2 is empty -- just to contradict the predictor.
But this is the same as if you are cancelling omnisciency out by both of you having omnisciency.
Furthermore, how does knowing the contents of box 2 cause the player to know everything?
www.dictionary.com
Omniscience: Having total knowledge; knowing everything:
I said:
[being omniscient] regarding the contents of the boxes.
[having total knowledge] regarding the contents of the boxes.
Let's say you don't know everything, but you have this power that allows you to know everything there is to know about tv programming. You will know what aired on channel 4 eight years ago... you will know what will air on channel 4 eight years from now. Will you not be omniscient regarding tv scheduling/programming?
You are not omniscient in the sense that you know everything, but you will have tv probramming omnisciency.
Osiris said:
But this 2nd argument assumes an omniscient being and expects this omniscient being to somehow predict wrong... does it not?
Where is this assumption?
here: "you will always get more money by picking both boxes."
The questions of soundness and validity are distinct. Do you believe that the premises are true, and do you believe that the conclusion is a logical consequence of them?
These are the premises: omniscient being will predict your choice.
These are the rules:
Pick box #2 = $1,00,000
Pick both boxes = $1,000
The conclusion:
picking box #2 will always yield $1,000,000
picking both will always yield $1,000
The flaw:
Thinking that since the sum of both boxes is always more than just
one box at one time... picking both boxes will yield more than just picking box 2 (ignoring the premise).
But you would have to give up the validity of arguments like that. The new argument I have presented is one of those arguments, and if one of them fails to preserve truth from premises to conclusion, then the general form is invalid by definition.
So if we reject this new argument then we are saying that there are cases where it is logical to take action A, even though any additional information on some question Q would make it logical to not take action A. I find such a scenario bizarre enough to call this a paradox (paradoxes can just be bizarre results -- Skolem's paradox, Banach-Tarski paradox). Otherwise, we should look for other sources of contradiction.
As I said... that argument does not address the problem.
Statement x: is that an omniscient being predicted you will take box 2.
The contradiction is not that there is always more money in the two boxes...
this does not address statement x.
The contradiction only arises when the being predicted you will take box 2 and you take both boxes... in result getting $1,001,000 ....
You are saying that if the player knows the contents of the box, they must know the truth of everything in the universe? How does this follow?
I answered this above...
That it is generally not determined (by say, the state of the universe at any time prior to the choice). That would mean the choice cannot be determined by an inerrant prediction either.
Yes, than if that is the case, the contradiction happens before the Newcomb's P. starts...