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New York experiments on poor children

BigToe

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/4038375.stm

New York's HIV experiment

By Jamie Doran
Reporter/producer, Guinea Pig Kids

HIV positive children and their loved ones have few rights if they choose to battle with social work authorities in New York City.

Jacklyn Hoerger's job was to treat children with HIV at a New York children's home.

But nobody had told her that the drugs she was administering were experimental and highly toxic.

"We were told that if they were vomiting, if they lost their ability to walk, if they were having diarrhoea, if they were dying, then all of this was because of their HIV infection."

In fact it was the drugs that were making the children ill and the children had been enrolled on the secret trials without their relatives' or guardians' knowledge.

As Jacklyn would later discover, those who tried to take the children off the drugs risked losing them into care.

The BBC asked the Alliance for Human Research Protection about their view on the drug trials.

Spokesperson Vera Sherav said: "They tested these highly experimental drugs. Why didn't they provide the children with the current best treatment? That's the question we have.

"Why did they expose them to risk and pain, when they were helpless?

"Would they have done those experiments with their own children? I doubt it."

Power and authority

When I first heard the story of the "guinea pig kids", I instinctively refused to believe that it could be happening in any civilised country, particularly the United States, where the propensity for legal action normally ensures a high level of protection.

But that, as I was to discover, was central to the choice of location and subjects, because to be free in New York City, you need money.

Over 23,000 of the city's children are either in foster care or independent homes run mostly by religious organisations on behalf of the local authorities and almost 99% are black or hispanic.

Some of these kids come from "crack" mothers and have been infected with the HIV virus. For over a decade, this became the target group for experimentation involving cocktails of toxic drugs.

Central to this story is the city's child welfare department, the Administration for Children's Services (ACS).

The ACS, as it is known, was granted far-reaching powers in the 1990s by then-Republican Mayor Rudi Giuliani, after a particularly horrific child killing.

Within the shortest of periods, literally thousands of children were being rounded up and placed in foster care.

"They're essentially out of control," said family lawyer David Lansner. "I've had many ACS case workers tell me: 'We're ACS, we can do whatever we want' and they usually get away with it."

Having taken children into care, the ACS was now, effectively, their parent and could do just about anything it wished with them.

So while I understand the families didn't have the money to cover legal fees and if they took their children off the drugs they would lose custody because of the ACS's power. But isn't enrolling a child without parental consent illegal? Why were no Human Rights groups fighting this? These are children for goodness sakes!
 

night2day

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It's quite sickening those types of experiments go on whether they be on children or anyone else. And then to tell the caregivers if they remove the children from the program the children will be removed from their care?? Talk about ordering individuals to give their children over to the state to do with as they will.

There was a recent story of a young woman with AIDS who died due to the experimental drug that caused her liver to fail. Never told of the possible side effects. Even when she was on life support the drug was continued to be given. At first, the families were also told it was due to the illness.

Human life continues to be degraded in more ways than one. One only prays at least in making this known stirs this needed individuals step in and put a stop to this abuse.
 
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SirKenin

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I absolutely abhor child protection agencies. They have entirely too much power which they abuse. They need to sit down with the government and reconsider their mandate. They are one of the biggest screwups the government has ever made.
 
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Ave Maria

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drfeelgood said:
I absolutely abhor child protection agencies. They have entirely too much power which they abuse. They need to sit down with the government and reconsider their mandate. They are one of the biggest screwups the government has ever made.
I totally agree. Yeah, they help to get some kids out of abusive households but then what happens? Do they get put into another abusive foster home? I remember seeing a documentary on PBS I think about this very thing happening with one girl. I can't remember the conclusion but I think her social worker ended up adopting her and then in a fit of anger, murdered the child. It was absolutely appalling! Child Protection Services is definitely one government agency that needs to be reformed!
 
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burrow_owl

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Debunked.

Debunked, part II:

In other words, this family didn't lose custody for refusing to participate in the clinical trial, they lost custody for refusing to provide Garfield with any medical treatment whatsoever for HIV.
 
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BigToe

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Thats interesting, can I get information as to whose blog that is? As it stands, I still kinda trust BBC news over someone's blog for accurate information. I do hope that it isn't true. But truth of the matter, with things in the past that have been done to the black community and such all in the name of "medicine" I don't think it is entirely off base to think this is true.

That being said- childrens protective services around the globe do still need to be reformed. It is unfair and cruel to take children from one abusive home and place them in another. And it is stupid to take a child out of that home because they claim they are abused and then put another child in that home.

And one family having a somewhat legit reason for taking a child away does not mean that is true of all of them. But there are kids around the globe who don't get medical treatment. We don't advocate them being placed in "homes" with experimental drugs.
 
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BigToe

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This link says that while the blog you pointed us to makes its points- there are still questions to be asked. There are City Officials that admit there were experiments (so I still question why these kids were enrolled without parental consent) and that a great deal of secrecy surrounded them.

Either way, something funky was going on.
 
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praying

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BigToe said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/4038375.stm



So while I understand the families didn't have the money to cover legal fees and if they took their children off the drugs they would lose custody because of the ACS's power. But isn't enrolling a child without parental consent illegal? Why were no Human Rights groups fighting this? These are children for goodness sakes!

The NY agnecy experiments on them and NJ's just lets the parents beat and or starve the children to death and I am quite positive the other agencies across the nation are no better. Is it an understatement to say this is a sad world. :help:
 
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BigToe

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You know what, I don't think it was any excuse to take the children away because the guardians were turning to holistic medicine instead of immune system inhibiting drugs. HIV/AIDS medication certainly don't boost your immune system, so yes, these kids were sickly. If a guardian wanted to give their child a better quality of life that allowed them to play and laugh and smile like they want- that seems to be ok. The CDC says that not all HIV positive people require medication.

Either way, I think it is wrong to use orphans to test experimental drugs simply because there is no parent to ensure the child's best interest is being followed.
 
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Vylo

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The NY agnecy experiments on them and NJ's just lets the parents beat and or starve the children to death and I am quite positive the other agencies across the nation are no better. Is it an understatement to say this is a sad world. :help:
Yeah our agencies are worked to death, so the result is pretty bad level of service. As the Dr. mentioned, these groups don't have many people looking over their shoulder either, so some really horrific oversights can occur. Maybe you guys don't hear about it as much as i do, but there are constantly scandals with our social service agencies. I feel bad for the workers due to their caseload, but worse for the families affected by the lack of resources and supervision.
 
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Risen Tree

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drfeelgood said:
I absolutely abhor child protection agencies. They have entirely too much power which they abuse. They need to sit down with the government and reconsider their mandate. They are one of the biggest screwups the government has ever made.
I'm afraid you're right. Unchecked power is a bad, bad thing, particularly when children are involved.
 
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SirKenin

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Rising Tree said:
I'm afraid you're right. Unchecked power is a bad, bad thing, particularly when children are involved.
Exactly. How is it that an agency intended to protect children proves to be one of their greatest threats?
 
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