New revelation

[TheMainException]

Well, i've been attempting to get to meetings...running into issues left and right. I'm hoping to attend one over break and see if I can get to one with a more open schedule and a car. So frustrating. I never once thought I'd have any trouble getting to a meeting before I attempted it.

Also, this past weekend, a few of us made pot butter and pot milk and created a dish from it and ate it. I've never eaten pot in a food before...only ever smoked it, so this was extremely new to me. I'd only smoked a few times in the past year and a half too since it was hardly even effecting me or it would just hit me too hard. The experience turned out amazing. The whole next day, I was so happy. That night, I spent half an hour just talking with God. I started to get guilty, feeling ashamed at what I had done for the first time since the 30 hours ago that I had done it. But as I talked to Him, He explained His love for me and His desires for my life. I ended up having the greatest conversation I have ever had with God. Also, during the day before that conversation I realized that I never wanted to do DXM again (cough meds). I had known it before that moment, but I finally came to the true realization that it just wasn't for me and that it was time for that to pass away from my life. I don't regret taking the weed, but I don't want to run out and do it again either. It was an experience that helped me to think things through in my life and realize some things that I had been ignoring and to finally face God without holding anything back like I've been doing all these months.

I've been keeping close records of my drug and alcohol use since I came back to school to see if I can figure out what things trigger it and such. I was thinking about my life a year and a half ago and realized just how far I've come. Back then, I was doing drugs everyday, sometimes more than once a day, drinking every other day, getting trashed three nights a week (at least). I look at how well I'm doing now...I've gotten trashed once in the past 2 months, haven't blacked out in the past 6. My drug use is down to less than once every two weeks or more. When I drink, I don't have more than 5 drinks (which is a small amount for me with food over a 5 hour time span). I enjoy the drink in my hand and have stayed away from liquor since there is no enjoyment there.

A year from now I go into a program where I live with other christians and minister to the local people in a particular place. The program is a year long and focuses on relationships with the people in the neighborhood, the people I live with and God. It's extremely structured and I will have no job and a small stipend that I must raise on my own. I think this will be a great time for me...drugs and alcohol with have no place in such a life. Even if I don't stop doing drugs long before the program starts, I know I will then. I'll be able to set up a lifestyle that doesn't include drugs and set myself on firm ground. this is one of the things I talked to God about that night last week. He told me that I can go either direction I have laid out, but that this one will give me the chance to grow in ways that more schooling never would allow, "a chance for a change" is essentially what He said.

 

[madison1101]

What a mess!!!!! You find it challenging to get to 12 step meetings so you can learn about a recovery program. Yet, you manage to make things with marijuana. I bet if you were offered $1,000,000 to get to a 12 step meeting, you would have little trouble getting there.

Then, after you discuss the pros and cons of marijuana use, and your observations of how you are using or not using drugs or alcohol, you talk about a ministry opportunity you wish to participate in.

Stop finding excuses not to get clean, if you are serious about a ministry. A person who is just off drugs is not as effective in ministry as someone who has been through the wringer and stayed clean. I stopped participating in all of the ministries I was involved in for the past year, and only began again in the past month. I am not patting myself on the back. I just know what early recovery is like, and the need to focus on my program for some time before attempting to minister for the Lord. Satan loves to attack people in early recovery so they will relapse. You think you are just going to stop using drugs one day and start working a ministry the next. Good luck.

 

[TheMainException]

First off, I don't have a car...I have to have people drive me. Second, I have a classes, so does everyone on campus with cars (and they also have jobs). I've been to three separate meetings that either no longer existed, changed to a different time, or had been relocated. I'm going further and further out of my bounds for meetings...it's already a half hour drive off campus. I'm TRYING. Sure, if I were offered that much money, I'd skip classes, easy. But those classes are what will make me the money to survive in the long run, the drugs I do aren't killing me. I'm working on it. I try every week to get to another meeting, it's taxing on my friends, but they love me so they take me when they can.

And I really absolutely cannot agree that I have to wait to minister and get clean first. Don't agree. The whole point of the program is relationships...relationship with God, christians in the house, in the church, and the neighborhood. It's growth individually, as a group living under the same roof, and with the community. Helping others helps the self. I ditched depression in part by helping others. I reached out, took the focus off myself and went towards others. I keep talking about what I should do after college with people. I'm asking God every night to be sure (that's something that has happened since eating the pot, I've talked to God every night before bed...I've never done that before. I'm not saying it was the pot, it was all God, but it's awesome to finally be doing this). I'm talking with mentors, my parents, my advisor. I want to make the right choice in my life, but getting my life in order doesn't make me any more usable by God. You make it sound as though I'm worthless for ministry where I'm at in my life now. Do you say "good luck" because of that concept or because you think I'll just start using again?

I had a rough spot with drugs and alcohol for a while when life sucked, that doesn't make me an automatic untamable addict, does it? I'm not still in a stage of life where things can be altered more easily than your time of life?

The thing I've realized about drugs is that God can still use me in those messed up states, he can still use the messed up state to change me...but it would have worked out better had I let him have it all and change me his way.

I'm in a drug and alcohol class right now...and according to that class, I'm beginning to doubt if I'm an addict at all. There's no dependence and no tolerance for me. I'm also not falling for the "disease" model quite so easily. Is there only one way to healing? Is my "recovery" any less of a recovery because I'm still using substances and being okay with that in general?

I guess it still bothers me that only one way to healing is accepted here...as if I'm bound to fail because I didn't take 12 steps and then a right turn and instead took a zig zag skate path.

 

[BlessEwe]

I'm in a drug and alcohol class right now...and according to that class, I'm beginning to doubt if I'm an addict at all. There's no dependence and no tolerance for me. I'm also not falling for the "disease" model quite so easily. Is there only one way to healing? Is my "recovery" any less of a recovery because I'm still using substances and being okay with that in general?

I have taken these classes as well, and to me your history is not just testing out the drugs, it is majorly abusing them. It is just a matter of time where one who abuses becomes dependent. It seems again you feel your brain is so different from any others, every addict has said the same things to themselves... it is called denial.
Read your books and try and find anywhere where they say you can still have recovery while still using, please let me know because that would be an addicts dream.

 

[madison1101]

First off, I don't have a car...I have to have people drive me. Second, I have a classes, so does everyone on campus with cars (and they also have jobs). I've been to three separate meetings that either no longer existed, changed to a different time, or had been relocated. I'm going further and further out of my bounds for meetings...it's already a half hour drive off campus. I'm TRYING. Sure, if I were offered that much money, I'd skip classes, easy. But those classes are what will make me the money to survive in the long run, the drugs I do aren't killing me. I'm working on it. I try every week to get to another meeting, it's taxing on my friends, but they love me so they take me when they can.

And I really absolutely cannot agree that I have to wait to minister and get clean first. Don't agree. The whole point of the program is relationships...relationship with God, christians in the house, in the church, and the neighborhood. It's growth individually, as a group living under the same roof, and with the community. Helping others helps the self. I ditched depression in part by helping others. I reached out, took the focus off myself and went towards others. I keep talking about what I should do after college with people. I'm asking God every night to be sure (that's something that has happened since eating the pot, I've talked to God every night before bed...I've never done that before. I'm not saying it was the pot, it was all God, but it's awesome to finally be doing this). I'm talking with mentors, my parents, my advisor. I want to make the right choice in my life, but getting my life in order doesn't make me any more usable by God. You make it sound as though I'm worthless for ministry where I'm at in my life now. Do you say "good luck" because of that concept or because you think I'll just start using again?

I had a rough spot with drugs and alcohol for a while when life sucked, that doesn't make me an automatic untamable addict, does it? I'm not still in a stage of life where things can be altered more easily than your time of life?

The thing I've realized about drugs is that God can still use me in those messed up states, he can still use the messed up state to change me...but it would have worked out better had I let him have it all and change me his way.

I'm in a drug and alcohol class right now...and according to that class, I'm beginning to doubt if I'm an addict at all. There's no dependence and no tolerance for me. I'm also not falling for the "disease" model quite so easily. Is there only one way to healing? Is my "recovery" any less of a recovery because I'm still using substances and being okay with that in general?

I guess it still bothers me that only one way to healing is accepted here...as if I'm bound to fail because I didn't take 12 steps and then a right turn and instead took a zig zag skate path.

If you have trouble getting a ride to a meeting, call the Intergroup office of AA in your community, and ask for help in arranging transportation to a meeting. Explain your situation, classes and all, and tell them about the problem in meetings not being where they are supposed to. They will probably help you find a ride to your first meeting and you can go from there.

As for classes, I worked full time and was in classes or doing an internship four nights a week and on weekends, and I managed to get to meetings regularly. Class schedules are no excuse for someone serious about recovery.

As for only one way to recover, you have not even begun to start recovery to be able to tout the benefits of alternatives. If you recently did pot, you are still using and abusing drugs.

 

[TheMainException]

Really? They have people that just take people to meetings even though they are far away? (other than members)...wow...man, that's nice to know. If I had a car, it wouldn't be so big of a deal to get to a meeting, but having to fit my schedule and someone else's and then find a meeting that works for both has been difficult, especially when they keep not working out. I've been trying to get to a noon one since I found one, but no one wants to take me at noon.

Wait a minute...aren't abuse and use two separate things?

 

[madison1101]

Really? They have people that just take people to meetings even though they are far away? (other than members)...wow...man, that's nice to know. If I had a car, it wouldn't be so big of a deal to get to a meeting, but having to fit my schedule and someone else's and then find a meeting that works for both has been difficult, especially when they keep not working out. I've been trying to get to a noon one since I found one, but no one wants to take me at noon.

Wait a minute...aren't abuse and use two separate things?

Drug addicts, alcoholics, drug abusers, alcohol abusers all use drugs and alcohol. The drugs and alcohol are used to FEED the addiction/disease. It is the abuse of the drugs and alcohol that causes the problems, and eventually, that abuse leads to addiction.

 

[BlessEwe]

Wait a minute...aren't abuse and use two separate things?

What Trish said, true.

Use is when say someone has a drug/drink and stops normally. Abuse is over using and doing it to change the way we feel.

Abuse in time (some very quickly) causes the body to crave and then becomes dependent. It can not function with out it. This is when the DT's happen and many need detoxing.

 

[BobW188]

I'm going to have to concur, pretty much, with Trish and BlessEwe, though I see a few signs you're heading in the right direction.
Do call Intergroup. In fact, in time, it might be worth your while to volunteer for them. Seekers like you should not have to go through a runaround of cancelled meetings, relocated meetings, etc. It's like calling 911 and getting a Chinese restaurant.
Another idea - might help, might not. Is there a Set Free Ministry near you? Over the summer, my wife and I became acquainted with Pastor Wade Lang's Set Free in Sleepy Eye, MN, and had them to our church to do a service and a concert. Their mission statement says that they are for "the oppressed, depressed, addicted and convicted." You can check them out at setfreemn.com if you wish.
I've heard mixed reports about other Set Free locations, but they might be worth a look.

 

[TheMainException]

Trish...I dunno, you're definition is still confusing to me.

BlessEwe, that's a bit more helpful.

For three months I've been drinking but stopping "normally" without craving more. Drugs were hardly ever about changing how I felt. For me...drugs were just a good time, an exploration. Although I did start to enjoy being high more than I enjoyed reality...

Bob: I've heard mention of that! My friend, NiN mentioned it to me once or twice but never really said anything else about it. I should ask him about it.

I just found a meeting a meeting tomorrow morning really close to my house in my hometown. Since I'll be at home tomorrow, I'm gonna go if my mom doesn't need the car.

Phil: Hey, I'm a chick, but it's cool. Thanks for the support. Yea...I totally can't accept step 2, not in the least. I'm not insane. I've got a brother who doesn't take my nonsense...he's been around since a few months after I started to drink and do drugs. God sent him my way real early in the game. He knew when I was high a lot and drinking a lot. He would never say anything back then because he knew it wasn't going to work to chase me away by condemning me. He stuck by me. He told me the other day after I told him about doing pot again "Okay, now no more for the rest of the semester. But I still want you to tell me if you do." I know he's got my back no matter what...and man that hurts...cuz I love him to death and I know he cares about me and wants good for me...I know I make him sad and that gets to me sometimes. He's half the reason I spend almost every day sober...why I don't get wasted...why I stopped smoking except for when I drink...why I stopped searching out new drugs to do and grow. NiN's taught me how to live, he's cared enough to dump the alcohol, to stay up late and pray with me when I was trashed and could barely talk.

 

[madison1101]

Well until you do accept it, you dont have a hope of staying clean. And as you are a Christian the fact that you cant see that getting "high/low" is insane let alone evil, well, enough said.

Laters. I will leave you too it. You arent ready. There's a new revelation for you.

AA is a fellowship of men and women, not boys and girls.

I must be honest I wasnt expecting to see and hear drug and drunk-a-logues and "poor me" stories in this site. There are plenty of non Christian sites for people who want to discuss their drug experiences. I honestly dont think you are being serious, me thinks you are taking the mickey

These drunkalogues are pretty regular. Main Exception, you need to make some decisions about your drug and alcohol use. It does you no good to come here, tell your drunk/drug story, and all the excuses you have for your use/abuse/misuse of any of it. You are simply falling for the lies that Satan trips all of us up with at some point. But, IF you are a believer, you are indwelled by the Holy Spirit of God, and you can have your eyes opened to the Truth about the drugs, drinking and your dependency on both.

 

[TheMainException]

The more I hear about AA, the more I hate it. I'm still going to at least one meeting, I can't not go to a meeting and claim that it doesn't work (cuz it OBVIOUSLY works for a great deal of people). But claiming I'm diseased from the first drink, that every drug user is bound for abuse (or even most), that I can't get better by slowly stopping drugs, or that I'm insane is all just insanity in itself.

The very fact that I react so violently sometimes probably means that I am truly an addict still in denial...but I'll just keep getting on the Dean's List and having the occassional few beers or the pot brownies while life seems to bend that way.

I'll probably be back in a while...I always come back it seems...I'm not sure why...it's not even like I want help or prayer or anything. It's dumb I guess. I should just wait until I actually want support, but regardless, I come round.

Thanks for being honest, I do appreciate it. Few people are willing to dish it out.

 

[madison1101]

The more I hear about AA, the more I hate it. I'm still going to at least one meeting, I can't not go to a meeting and claim that it doesn't work (cuz it OBVIOUSLY works for a great deal of people). But claiming I'm diseased from the first drink, that every drug user is bound for abuse (or even most), that I can't get better by slowly stopping drugs, or that I'm insane is all just insanity in itself.

The very fact that I react so violently sometimes probably means that I am truly an addict still in denial...but I'll just keep getting on the Dean's List and having the occassional few beers or the pot brownies while life seems to bend that way.

I'll probably be back in a while...I always come back it seems...I'm not sure why...it's not even like I want help or prayer or anything. It's dumb I guess. I should just wait until I actually want support, but regardless, I come round.

Thanks for being honest, I do appreciate it. Few people are willing to dish it out.

You make it sound as if alcoholics and addicts don't achieve success in school or jobs. I made Dean's List and graduate cum laude while in my alcoholism. What is your point? Dr. Bob Smith became a doctor while drinking. He got sober many years later, and helped co-found AA. Have you read any of the AA Big Book yet? Have you read any of the professional journal articles on alcoholism and the disease concept? For an intelligent person, you should consider educating yourself on this subject if you plan to minister to people.

Big Book Online - the doctor's opinion

Read the above chapter of the AA Big Book. It was written by a Medical Doctor who worked with alcoholics for years during the founding of AA, and it gives his thoughts on the disease concept.

Good luck to you as you journey this chapter.

 

[BlessEwe]

The more I hear about AA, the more I hate it. I'm still going to at least one meeting, I can't not go to a meeting and claim that it doesn't work (cuz it OBVIOUSLY works for a great deal of people). But claiming I'm diseased from the first drink, that every drug user is bound for abuse (or even most), that I can't get better by slowly stopping drugs, or that I'm insane is all just insanity in itself.

The very fact that I react so violently sometimes probably means that I am truly an addict still in denial...but I'll just keep getting on the Dean's List and having the occassional few beers or the pot brownies while life seems to bend that way.

I'll probably be back in a while...I always come back it seems...I'm not sure why...it's not even like I want help or prayer or anything. It's dumb I guess. I should just wait until I actually want support, but regardless, I come round.

Thanks for being honest, I do appreciate it. Few people are willing to dish it out.

Giving you a big hug right now, I am starting to see a change in you and I feel it. You are a lovely girl who is hurting. I have found that every person I have met in recovery are very intelligent people. And it is true that when things are going well, or we haven't lost everything it is very hard to admit we have a problem. This is called a functioning addict. Not everyone ends up in the gutter, some get close, some loose everything ( family, finances, jobs, legal problems), and sad to say some die. A good friend of mine helped me when I was heading in for treatment, he is a doctor in recovery. He is 20 years clean now after taking 30 pills of Oxycontin a day.
I am glad you come back, because you are always in my prayers.

 

[BlessEwe]

You make it sound as if alcoholics and addicts don't achieve success in school or jobs. I made Dean's List and graduate cum laude while in my alcoholism. What is your point? Dr. Bob Smith became a doctor while drinking. He got sober many years later, and helped co-found AA. Have you read any of the AA Big Book yet? Have you read any of the professional journal articles on alcoholism and the disease concept? For an intelligent person, you should consider educating yourself on this subject if you plan to minister to people.

Big Book Online - the doctor's opinion

Read the above chapter of the AA Big Book. It was written by a Medical Doctor who worked with alcoholics for years during the founding of AA, and it gives his thoughts on the disease concept.

Good luck to you as you journey this chapter.

Excellent Trish, you are a blessing.

 

[TheMainException]

Yes, I have read a bunch of information on the disease model. I've studied it in a class, I've read articles on it, and books. I'm really not sold on it and find myself disagreeing with it more and more. Actually, before I knew anything, it was the model I ascribed to. It sounded very right. Then I learned about the other models and gained more info on it and found that it simply didn't cover all the issues. There is so much dogma in the disease model, mantras and and it scares me when I meet someone who I didn't know was in AA yet and they start spouting AA information...they all sound exactly the same. Sounding all the same in one aspect isn't in itself a bad thing, especially with so many people sober and living full lives without addiction....I don't know, it just creeps me out for some reason, again...it's just me I think.

The disease model works, but so do the other models. The model I find the most useful is the multi-systemic, ecological perspective. It allows the focus to change depending on the person, but has many dimensions including biological, psychological, family, religious/spiritual, social and macro. It helps to see things from various angles...nothing has just one side and nothing has just two perspectives.

My disagreements with the disease model are no final straw and I am not absolutely against it and I would even be willing to use it in my practice if I thought someone would benefit from it.

What I meant by mentioning getting on the Dean's List is that things aren't like they were, I'm not failing classes, skipping classes, not studying like two years ago. I've never been on the Dean's List til last semester. My continuation of that is not proof of anything. My dad goes to work, mows the lawn, makes money, pretends real well...and he's a straight up absolute alcoholic, no question. But while I am at a place where I can go weeks without even "craving" a substance, where my roommate (whom I did not choose...I will be moving out at the end of the semester) walks in with weed and rolls a blunt right in front of me, so close I can smell the sweet dank smell without needing to smoke it with her and still do well in school...I'm going to live this way. I am confident in my current state of being and am not only happy and content, but happy and content without having to do substances with any regularity. I'm talking with God more, reading my Bible more. It doesn't PROVE a thing. I'm just okay with it right now, that's all...I guess it does prove that I'm not ready to leave this.

 

[madison1101]

Yes, I have read a bunch of information on the disease model. I've studied it in a class, I've read articles on it, and books. I'm really not sold on it and find myself disagreeing with it more and more. Actually, before I knew anything, it was the model I ascribed to. It sounded very right. Then I learned about the other models and gained more info on it and found that it simply didn't cover all the issues. There is so much dogma in the disease model, mantras and and it scares me when I meet someone who I didn't know was in AA yet and they start spouting AA information...they all sound exactly the same. Sounding all the same in one aspect isn't in itself a bad thing, especially with so many people sober and living full lives without addiction....I don't know, it just creeps me out for some reason, again...it's just me I think.

The disease model works, but so do the other models. The model I find the most useful is the multi-systemic, ecological perspective. It allows the focus to change depending on the person, but has many dimensions including biological, psychological, family, religious/spiritual, social and macro. It helps to see things from various angles...nothing has just one side and nothing has just two perspectives.

My disagreements with the disease model are no final straw and I am not absolutely against it and I would even be willing to use it in my practice if I thought someone would benefit from it.

What I meant by mentioning getting on the Dean's List is that things aren't like they were, I'm not failing classes, skipping classes, not studying like two years ago. I've never been on the Dean's List til last semester. My continuation of that is not proof of anything. My dad goes to work, mows the lawn, makes money, pretends real well...and he's a straight up absolute alcoholic, no question. But while I am at a place where I can go weeks without even "craving" a substance, where my roommate (whom I did not choose...I will be moving out at the end of the semester) walks in with weed and rolls a blunt right in front of me, so close I can smell the sweet dank smell without needing to smoke it with her and still do well in school...I'm going to live this way. I am confident in my current state of being and am not only happy and content, but happy and content without having to do substances with any regularity. I'm talking with God more, reading my Bible more. It doesn't PROVE a thing. I'm just okay with it right now, that's all...I guess it does prove that I'm not ready to leave this.

Oh Mercy me. Do you believe that you must be 100% a Disease Model person in order to benefit from participation in AA? I certainly do not. I believe that alcoholism is a disease, and that it also has biopsychosocial components, as well as inherited and learned behaviors. But, when the bottom line is there, and the stuff hits the fan, the drunk gets to a point where the mind is twisted and the body craves the alcohol. Hence, the disease. It is considered a mental illness by the American Psychiatric Association, as it is in the DSM-IV.

I struggled with the disease concept for a long time, and relapsed for years attempting to utilize a different model and program. I did an in depth study of 2 Corinthians which helped me accept the disease concept for myself.

Keep posting.

Trish

 

[TheMainException]

No, of course not...that's why I'm attending a meeting on thursday. i called the place, they exist, I have two friends going along and taking me and they are expecting me...I'll have to pray hard before hand and really try to keep an open mind so I actually hear and listen to what is said so it reaches my heart and not just my head.

 

[Mayflower1]

Teen Challenge is a good ministry to look into. www.teenchallengeusa.com It changed my life and is for any life-controlling issue. Jesus is the way out.

I am happy that you are doing better. I've never drank or did drugs, but have friends that use too. Basically, how they overcame is through Jesus. I know it is a hard fight, because I struggled with self-injury for 6 years, but it is worth it. Once you overcome, then there is hardly anything else that can try to defeat you.

 

[TheMainException]

Hey, yea...I struggled with SI too when I was in high school...still have the scars from those days.

I just realized something else...the more I've been clean...the more I've eaten. I don't know how much weight I've gained in the past few months, but I know it's going up...and quickly. The fewer drugs I do, the food I eat. I can't stop.

This has NOTHING to do with drugs...it is about control. The SI was about control, the drugs were about control, the food is about control. What's really funny about the whole issue of control...is that I actually lose control. I lost weight when I was in europe because I was drinking so much that I stopped spending money on food...I spent more money on alcohol than I did for food.

When my life was spinning out of control, when I had no control over my parents fighting, my house burning to the ground, my pets dying, my depression, anxiety, my father's drinking...I had control over my physical person. It carried through. I stopped being depressed and anxious, but I still had no control over the pain my mom dealt with or the way my dad treated her. So...what was a fun time turned into a control issue which ended up as a lack of control. And food...well, that's always been an issue. It was the first substance I could control.

That leaves one more thing...I can exercise til I sweat blood. Basically, if I'm not stuck on something, I'm not alive. Stopping drinking or doing drugs isn't going to help me. I've found it terribly difficult to pray while burning my skin or eating poptarts that pack 200 calories per individual tart. But praying while doing drugs or drinking...man, that's always been the easiest thing. But I imagine praying while riding my bike around the world would be just as easy...guilt free addiction. I'll feel good too. I'm going to empty my room of food and eat as many veggies as possible in the cafe.

You might see this as a cop out...but I really don't think I can ever be NOT addicted to something unless I find a way to resolve the issues of my past. There's really no anger or resentment towards my dad anymore...we are equal in our pathetic-ness. I saw him drunk one night and realized...gosh...that's what I look like...that's how pathetic I am.