New hominid found in China

[Assyrian]

Temperature rises by 22.1°C for every km depth, not to mention the pressure. It doesn't have to be hot enough to melt the rock or transform it into metamorphic rock. Sedimentary rock can still stay sedimentary rock and undergo plastic deformation.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Temperature rises by 22.1°C for every km depth, not to mention the pressure. It doesn't have to be hot enough to melt the rock or transform it into metamorphic rock. Sedimentary rock can still stay sedimentary rock and undergo plastic deformation.

So what temperatures are you suggesting these sedimentary rocks folded at without leaving any indication of heating at all?

 

[Assyrian]

So what temperatures are you suggesting these sedimentary rocks folded at without leaving any indication of heating at all?

Rock will deform at room temperature if the pressure is high enough. However most folded rock is metamorphic so there is plenty of evidence of heating. You also get sedimentary rock that is folded but shows evidence it was solid when this occurred like fracturing as well as folding, you sometimes even find fossils or pebbles deformed out of shape. If this was sediment being folded, the sediment would simply flow around the fossil or pebble, instead when the strata folded they were as solid as the fossils and peddles embedded in them. Of course you can also get folding before the sediments solidify, but sediment has no structural integrity and behaves differently from rock being deformed under pressure.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

(I'm sure people more knowledgable than I have brought this up before )

Whatever -they were Flood victims So that puts them with those whom God may not have wanted to survive.

Alright ... most of the debates about victims of the "Great Flood" look at geology, but what about the fossils themselves? Is it possible to tell if a person or animal drowned simply by looking at their bones?

It's fairly easy to tell if a person drowned by looking for diatoms in their lungs and other organs - but of course, that only works if there is still soft tissue left. The victims of the flood would be nothing but bone now. But because they have walls made of silica, diatoms fossilize quite easily and form a layer of "Diatomaceous earth".

Presumably if these Chinese hominids were victims of the flood, they'd be found in layers of diatomaceous earth, just like most ancient sea creatures are - ichthyosaurs for example. Indeed, if the dinosaurs, hominids and other extinct animals were victims of the flood, then shouldn't we expect every single fossil ever found to be covered in diatomaceous earth?

 

[TasManOfGod]

Interesting But would the scientist let us know this?

 

[TasManOfGod]

Rock will deform at room temperature if the pressure is high enough. However most folded rock is metamorphic so there is plenty of evidence of heating. You also get sedimentary rock that is folded but shows evidence it was solid when this occurred like fracturing as well as folding, you sometimes even find fossils or pebbles deformed out of shape. If this was sediment being folded, the sediment would simply flow around the fossil or pebble, instead when the strata folded they were as solid as the fossils and peddles embedded in them. Of course you can also get folding before the sediments solidify, but sediment has no structural integrity and behaves differently from rock being deformed under pressure.

Has there been a test done to prove your theory or are you simply suggesting how things happened without proof that it happened that way

 

[Assyrian]

Has there been a test done to prove your theory or are you simply suggesting how things happened without proof that it happened that way

Plenty of experiments done testing how rock behave at different temperatures, pressures and stresses even different water contents. Believe it or not labs are able to test samples at the really high temperatures and pressures. We know the behaviour of rock under different conditions so when we see the evidence the rock has behaved like this, we have a pretty good idea the conditions it happened at. You know, geologist love deformed fossils, because they can measure the amount of strain in the rock by the amount and direction the fossil has deformed.

 

[florida2]

are you simply suggesting how things happened without proof that it happened that way

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Plenty of experiments done testing how rock behave at different temperatures, pressures and stresses even different water contents. Believe it or not labs are able to test samples at the really high temperatures and pressures. We know the behaviour of rock under different conditions so when we see the evidence the rock has behaved like this, we have a pretty good idea the conditions it happened at. You know, geologist love deformed fossils, because they can measure the amount of strain in the rock by the amount and direction the fossil has deformed.

And do the rocks so tested show no signs of the extreme temperatures as those in the field do? Also let me guess that the bones of the fossils would be only broken or disjointed but they would never be bent . Of course I dont know this but I imagine that it would be like this and ctherefore be a defining evidence of folding while the rock is pliable rather than hardened. Of course it is unlikely that evidence of flood history like this would ever be made public

 

[Keachian]

You have a spare century or ten?

 

[Assyrian]

And do the rocks so tested show no signs of the extreme temperatures as those in the field do?

You get fold in metamorphic rock and they certainly show signs of high temperature. But you get folding in sedimentary rock too but they show evidence being solid when they were deformed. Because the temperature isn't as high, the rock isn't as easily deformed and you get things like fracturing.

Also let me guess that the bones of the fossils would be only broken or disjointed but they would never be bent . Of course I dont know this but I imagine that it would be like this and ctherefore be a defining evidence of folding while the rock is pliable rather than hardened. Of course it is unlikely that evidence of flood history like this would ever be made public

Here is an image of deformed brachiopods from a shale deposit in South Africa that Frumious Bandersnatch posted a few years ago

They are deformed rather than broken. In other words they were part of the solid rock when the rock itself deformed rather than being embedded in soft sediment, which would have either flowed around the shells or broken them.
Here is a deformed trilobite:

 

[TasManOfGod]

I am no expert in this but aren't we looking at impressions on the face of rocks -not actual fossils?

 

[TasManOfGod]

But you get folding in sedimentary rock too but they show evidence being solid when they were deformed. Because the temperature isn't as high, the rock isn't as easily deformed and you get things like fracturing.

I rest my case. I am talking situations where there is no fracturing

 

[Assyrian]

I am no expert in this but aren't we looking at impressions on the face of rocks -not actual fossils?

I think you might have some of both, but the impression are just as much part of the fossil as the mould is. Besides they would have both been together before some geologist whacked the rock with a hammer and split it apart.

I rest my case. I am talking situations where there is no fracturing

Such as? Sounds like most folding is in metamorphic rock and was subject to high temperatures and pressures, most folding sedimentary rock folds show signs of being sold when it was deformed like fracturing. What are we left with and how is it evidence of a global flood? Geologist already identify rock that was still sediment when it was deformed.

 

[TasManOfGod]

I think you might have some of both, but the impression are just as much part of the fossil as the mould is. Besides they would have both been together before some geologist whacked the rock with a hammer and split it apart.

Except if they didn't match up (as there is no evidence in the pic to show they did) then the fossill didn't deform with the rock -only the impression did as you would expect.

Such as? Sounds like most folding is in metamorphic rock and was subject to high temperatures and pressures, most folding sedimentary rock folds show signs of being sold when it was deformed like fracturing. What are we left with and how is it evidence of a global flood? Geologist already identify rock that was still sediment when it was deformed.

There could also be fracturing if it was folded wet. Simply because there were fractures is no indication that it was deformed when solid.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Assyrian
There would only have to be one case of folding of strata layers on the "geological column" to indicate a world wide Flood - correct?

 

[Assyrian]

Except if they didn't match up (as there is no evidence in the pic to show they did) then the fossill didn't deform with the rock -only the impression did as you would expect.

You are suggesting the rock was deformed after the other side of the fossil was removed?

There could also be fracturing if it was folded wet. Simply because there were fractures is no indication that it was deformed when solid.

You think really mud behaves the same way as stone? There are a whole series of different fractures, delaminating and kinking you get when solid rock is deformed. you would need to demonstrate that mud will behave the same way. But any more pressure than a gentle slump and mud strata get mushed up and mangled because mud has no internal strength.



Notice how the deformed soft sediments are sandwiched between solid rock strata behaving like rock.

 

[TasManOfGod]

You are suggesting the rock was deformed after the other side of the fossil was removed?

No I am inferring that you need both the imprint and the fossill to determine the time frame of the event. If there is no deformed fossil evident than it coould be a huge porky pie to say the event happened when the rock was solid

You think really mud behaves the same way as stone? There are a whole series of different fractures, delaminating and kinking you get when solid rock is deformed. you would need to demonstrate that mud will behave the same way. But any more pressure than a gentle slump and mud strata get mushed up and mangled because mud has no internal strength.



Notice how the deformed soft sediments are sandwiched between solid rock strata behaving like rock.

Who said anything about mud only . The Flood would produce all types of sedimentry layers and the receeding waters would produce even more variations. Depending on the conditions prevailing at the time (remember we are talking a timeline of 1 year here) all sorts of aftermath can exist at varios layers.

 

[Assyrian]

No I am inferring that you need both the imprint and the fossill to determine the time frame of the event. If there is no deformed fossil evident than it coould be a huge porky pie to say the event happened when the rock was solid

Ah I get it, you think the geologists are lying. All the deformed fossils that geologists have been discovered and studied are fakes. That is one way to get around the evidence. However in the real world, the cast of a fossil is going to be the same size and shape as the impression, a mirror image of it, one in relief the other an indentation. You don't need both to see how much the fossil is distorted.

Who said anything about mud only . The Flood would produce all types of sedimentry layers and the receeding waters would produce even more variations. Depending on the conditions prevailing at the time (remember we are talking a timeline of 1 year here) all sorts of aftermath can exist at varios layers.

The problem is that the strata aren't lithified, whether they are silt, mud, wet sand or conglomerate, if they haven't turned to rock when you deform them, then they won't behave like rock.