New Covenant

[jbg9]

I want to know how you all feel about the following subject.

Since Christ established the New Covenant with God, does that mean that unless Jesus mentions something from the Old Testament specifically, we do not need to follow it? Or does that mean that we simply do not know whether or not to follow it?

I would appreciate imput.

Thanks.

 

[Rafael]

Fulfill does not mean to do away with, as Jesus told us and Paul points out:

Matt 5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle of the law shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Lu 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love would never murder or covet another man's wife, nor would love steal and break God's laws; thus not breaking the ten commandments that are eternal and making love the fulfilling of the law in our lives would be the way to go.

The old Levitical laws concerning the sacrifice of animals no longer have to be observed because Jesus became the once and for all time sacrifice for sin. Common sense and the Holy Spirit's guidance shows us where to draw lines in obedience.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[Your Neighbor]

A covenant cannot be changed after the death of the testator.

Heb 9
15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.



Gal 3
15Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

 

[Stinker]

I want to know how you all feel about the following subject.

Since Christ established the New Covenant with God, does that mean that unless Jesus mentions something from the Old Testament specifically, we do not need to follow it? Or does that mean that we simply do not know whether or not to follow it?

I would appreciate imput.

Thanks.

For starters, I would say yes.

By reading what the rest of the New Testament, the 23 other books or letters, say concerning this, is a great help in understanding what applies and what doesn't.

 

[hopeinGod]

Because the law contained so many of what appear to be oddball responses to bad behavior and wrong choices, the most difficult part of it for me has been in realizing its wisdom.

I, for one, am most appreciative to be living today in an age that is after the death and resurrection of Christ. If I'd lived in the days of Abraham, I'm certain my life would have been cut short.

Text regarding stonings and sentences of death for what appear on the surface to be merely bad choices, even misdemeaners, described within the law, appear to portray our Lord as unmerciful and unforgiving.

I wish Jesus had given us a broader explanation of why so many transgressions of the law were punishable by death.

Also confounding to me are the judgments against the enemies of the children of Israel. Where was the mercy? Such brutal events have caused one Christian friend of mine to no longer believe in the inerrancy of Scripture.

David

 

[TrustAndObey]

Christ quotes from scripture of the Old Testament quite often in the New Testament. Look how many times he said "It is written." He also called the Old Testament good scripture.

The books of the New Testament weren't written until after His death and resurrection, so the "written" references are definitely referring to the Old Testament.

I don't think He had to repeat every word of it for us to know that much of it is still binding. He told us to obey the Father in heaven to see the kingdom of heaven and that we must live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[Your Neighbor]

Anyone can do as I did recently. Go to

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=it%20is%20written&version1=9&searchtype=phrase&bookset=2

Where do you suppose all 63 of those statements came from?

 

[willard3]

I love Bible Gateway. Useful when those Protestants demand Scripture for everything.

I dunno if there's anybody here who does this, but it really annoys me when I see people carrying around those little copies of the NT only, like it's all we need. Also, whenever I mention a passage from the OT, and someone responds "Oh, that's from the OT and I don't need to follow that." Arrrgh.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I love Bible Gateway. Useful when those Protestants demand Scripture for everything.

We're such pesky Protestants, aren't we?

I dunno if there's anybody here who does this, but it really annoys me when I see people carrying around those little copies of the NT only, like it's all we need. Also, whenever I mention a passage from the OT, and someone responds "Oh, that's from the OT and I don't need to follow that." Arrrgh.

Amen! NO other book would people cut to the middle and expect to know the whole story, but with the bible it certainly appears that way sometimes!

 

[jbg9]

My question was not "What laws did Jesus say we should follow?" I merely asked if we should only follow things from the Old Testament that Jesus reiderated. For instance, Jesus mentions the Ten Commandments. We should follow those.

 

[TrustAndObey]

My question was not "What laws did Jesus say we should follow?" I merely asked if we should only follow things from the Old Testament that Jesus reiderated. For instance, Jesus mentions the Ten Commandments. We should follow those.

My answer is no. We shouldn't wait for Christ to restate things in order to follow them. If God spoke once, that's good enough for me.

 

[Eila]

I want to know how you all feel about the following subject.

Since Christ established the New Covenant with God, does that mean that unless Jesus mentions something from the Old Testament specifically, we do not need to follow it? Or does that mean that we simply do not know whether or not to follow it?

I would appreciate imput.

Thanks.

The old covenant is completed in Christ. Jesus followed the law and told the people to listen to the teachers of the law. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and issued in the new covenant when He died. The 10 commandments were the word of the old covenant.

We are now led by the Spirit. The Spirit convicts of sin - not the law.

Galatians is a good book to read to get the answers you are looking for.

If you follow the Spirit you have no use for the law. The Spirit will not lead you to sin.

I find this quote useful to understand how we are to live in the new covenant:

1 John 3 '8 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."

 

[TrustAndObey]

The old covenant is completed in Christ. Jesus followed the law and told the people to listen to the teachers of the law. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and issued in the new covenant when He died. The 10 commandments were the word of the old covenant.

We are now led by the Spirit. The Spirit convicts of sin - not the law.

Galatians is a good book to read to get the answers you are looking for.

If you follow the Spirit you have no use for the law. The Spirit will not lead you to sin.

I find this quote useful to understand how we are to live in the new covenant:

1 John 3 '8 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."

I think you probably speak on behalf of the bulk of modern-day Christianity when you say those things, but Jesus said that there are FEW that will find the path to eternal life.

Even Christ had to obey the Father, and Christ told US we had to obey the Father.

 

[Eila]

I think you probably speak on behalf of the bulk of modern-day Christianity when you say those things, but Jesus said that there are FEW that will find the path to eternal life.

Even Christ had to obey the Father, and Christ told US we had to obey the Father.

I believe eternal life is only by grace through faith and not by works. Keeping the law has nothing to do with salvation.

Jesus is the way to salvation - the only way. John 14 "6Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me."

Yes, we are to obey God. The Word of God says we are no longer under the law. The Word of God says we are discharged from the law. The Word of God says we are to now follow the leading of the Spirit.

Romans 7 "6But now we are discharged from the Law and have terminated all intercourse with it, having died to what once restrained and held us captive. So now we serve not under [obedience to] the old code of written regulations, but [under obedience to the promptings] of the Spirit in newness [of life]."

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

The Word of God says we are discharged from the law

Paul said we are not discharged from the law. Paul said we are discharged from the penalties of the Law. VERY important to realize this because if not then Yeshua died for no reason.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

You have to get the whole context because this is what the New Covenant is ALL about.

What are we delivered from? We are redeemed from the Law's penalties.

Why are we delivered from the Law's penalties? Because Yeshua paid the penalty.

The ONLY aspect we are free from is the penalties. The wages of sin are death.

If it wasn't for Yeshua we would still be being dead wherein we were held.

Since Jesus paid the penalties does that mean the Law is no more?

If you just read But now we are delivered from the law it sounds like it says we are discharged from the Law. That's why you have to read the WHOLE context.

What does that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter mean?



Marc

 

[Eila]

Paul said we are not discharged from the law. Paul said we are discharged from the penalties of the Law. VERY important to realize this because if not then Yeshua died for no reason.

Died for no reason? Jesus didn't die so we would be bound to the law. It was for freedom that He set us free. The law has nothing to do with salvation!

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

You have to get the whole context because this is what the New Covenant is ALL about.

What are we delivered from? We are redeemed from the Law's penalties.

We are delivered from the law. So now we don't serve the letter (which is the old covenant law), but the Spirit.

Why are we delivered from the Law's penalties? Because Yeshua paid the penalty.

The ONLY aspect we are free from is the penalties. The wages of sin are death.

Christ has reconciled the world to Himself not imputing their sins against them. The only thing separating a person from salvation is belief in Jesus. The old covenant law has no relation to me.

Romans 7 "5When we were living in the flesh (mere physical lives), the sinful passions that were awakened and aroused up by [what] the Law [makes sin] were constantly operating in our natural powers (in our bodily organs, in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh), so that we bore fruit for death.
6But now we are discharged from the Law and have terminated all intercourse with it, having died to what once restrained and held us captive. So now we serve not under [obedience to] the old code of written regulations, but [under obedience to the promptings] of the Spirit in newness [of life]."

Since Jesus paid the penalties does that mean the Law is no more?

If you just read But now we are delivered from the law it sounds like it says we are discharged from the Law. That's why you have to read the WHOLE context.

The whole context says that we died to the law so that we can belong to Him. It likens attaching yourself to the law as adultery. It describes how the law is the knowledge of sin. If you want to be free from the power of sin you need to be free from the law.

What does

that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter mean?

The oldness of the letter is the old covenant law. The newness of Spirit is following the leading of the Holy Spirit. The Bible says that if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. The letter of the law is still the letter. Following the Spirit isn't following the letter.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

We are delivered from the law. So now we don't serve the letter (which is the old covenant law), but the Spirit.

What does it mean that 'the law is written on our hearts and minds(unquote)?

The oldness of the letter is the old covenant law. The newness of Spirit is following the leading of the Holy Spirit. The Bible says that if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. The letter of the law is still the letter. Following the Spirit isn't following the letter.

I agree again What does it mean that 'the law is written on our hearts and minds(unquote) compared to the letter?

Marc

 

[knew1]

Paul said we are not discharged from the law. Paul said we are discharged from the penalties of the Law. VERY important to realize this because if not then Yeshua died for no reason.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

You have to get the whole context because this is what the New Covenant is ALL about.

What are we delivered from? We are redeemed from the Law's penalties.

Why are we delivered from the Law's penalties? Because Yeshua paid the penalty.

The ONLY aspect we are free from is the penalties. The wages of sin are death.

If it wasn't for Yeshua we would still be being dead wherein we were held.

Since Jesus paid the penalties does that mean the Law is no more?

If you just read But now we are delivered from the law it sounds like it says we are discharged from the Law. That's why you have to read the WHOLE context.

What does that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter mean?



Marc

Good point! This simple text leaves a lot to interpretation. Given the bulk of the NT, AND the words directly from Jesus; it seems that the only correct way to interpret it is to say that Christians are no longer bound to old laws and traditions. We are told to keep God's commandments, with 2 summing up all the others. 1. Love God with all of your heart, 2. Love your neighbor as yourself.

It is pretty obvious that we only choose to keep some of the OT anyway. It appears to me that some use the OT to drive a certain point home, usually a literal intepretation that they want to use scripture to back it up with.

Jesus broke the chains that bound us to the old laws and customs. That is the GRACE.

It would be wise to study hard the words of Jesus, before studying the apostles. As far as I am concerned, if you live by Jesus words alone, your life is blemish free. The apostles expanded on what Jesus said and tried to explain it so everyone could understand. It's pretty clear when you think about what is said by Jesus.

 

[Cribstyl]

The old covenant is completed in Christ. Jesus followed the law and told the people to listen to the teachers of the law. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and issued in the new covenant when He died. The 10 commandments were the word of the old covenant.

We are now led by the Spirit. The Spirit convicts of sin - not the law.

Galatians is a good book to read to get the answers you are looking for.

If you follow the Spirit you have no use for the law. The Spirit will not lead you to sin.

I find this quote useful to understand how we are to live in the new covenant:

1 John 3 '8 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."

You tell'em and show'em sis, because text dont lie... but these are those who reject what is written for what they can reason.

Yes, Christ kept and taught propper use of the law because He came as a Jew under the law. He was not under the New Covenant. A good question for them is, "Are gentiles Christains ever taught to be under the law?" The biblical answer is NO...(Here is more doctrine taught without added reasoning.)

Rom 6:14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 6:15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Gal 3:10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 4:21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Gal 5:18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


THESE TEXTS ABOVE APPLIES TO CHRISTIANS RATHER THAN THE COMMANDMENTS GIVEN TO MOSES, FOR THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL TO FOLLOW.

They will argue that God wrote the commandments with His finger, while they reject the revelation of God in the person of Jesus Christ.

IN PEACE
CRIB

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

You tell'em and show'em sis, because text dont lie... but these are those who reject what is written for what they can reason.

It's important to look at the context of why Romans was written.

The congregation at Rome had a very important distinction to the other congregations mentioned in the "New Testament." It was the only one not directly founded by one of the apostles. At the time of the events of Acts 2, some of the Jews who came from Rome to Jerusalem for the feast of Shavuot, became believers. They returned to their city and began a congregation. By the time of Paul's letter, the congregational makeup most likely had a gentile majority, though the leadership probably was still in Jewish hands.
Unfortunately, the congregation was not properly established by apostolic authority and had developed internal problems. This is the purpose for which Paul wrote the book of Romans. Much of the difficulty the congregation was experiencing was caused by a great influx of gentiles. Most of these gentiles were not previously regular Synagogue attendees with an appreciation of the faith of Israel (as compared to those in Jerusalem for example). Rather, they entered their "new faith" directly from the pagan Roman world, full of its anti-Jewish prejudices, as outlined above. As new "believers," they knew very little about God and His Messiah, and virtually nothing of the Torah. Beyond that, they had no respect for Jewish customs and Synagogue regulations.

Marc