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No. Christians are saved, by the blood of Jesus. People who are not in a relationship with Him are not.I always thought that the message of Christianity was also that we are all in the same boat, all worthy of fellowship and compassion, especially those we would count as enemies.
We aren't just flawed. We are all drenched in sin. Every single one of us. But Christians have been freed. No-one said a single thing that would imply they thought they were a better person than you.I always thought that the message of Christianity was that nobody's that much better than anyone else; that we're all flawed creatures doing the best we can.
There hasn't been talk of exclusion. Jesus went out to those people to bring them to Him, to build a relationship with them that would give them a place in Heaven. He didn't lunch with them for kicks.I always thought that the message of Christianity was that extending the hand of friendship and a welcome in your home to tax-collectors, prostitutes and the like was the right thing to do; that this gratuitous fellowship and refusal to exclude people was the whole point.
This is just more rhetoric! Yes, love is the fundamental tenet of Christianity. First for God, then for man. Altruism being more powerful than evil is a karmic new-age belief.I always thought the message of Christianity was that altruism was more powerful than evil, that it simply worked better; that love was the universal solvent.
In fact, what CF became was down to its structure... all of which was ultimately Erwin's responsibility.And so, get a bunch of particularly devout Christians together in a place like this, and look what happens.
They build fences to forcibly separate 'them' from 'us'. They worry that they will be contaminated or dragged down by walking among those outside their group. They hoard their friendship and welcome among themselves, refusing to waste it on others, as though they might somehow run out of the stuff. And they simply do not trust that their way works better, shielding themselves from the 'wolves' of other beliefs and hostility, lest it overpower love.
And people wonder why I'm a cynic.
These two posts succinctly highlight the problem.
Nothing said was stupid, or wrong. It was Biblical.
So people who don't *want* to hear the Truth can now accuse Bible-believing Christians of "driving them away from Jesus", which you well know is the last thing any Christian wants to do.
While it's probably not intended manipulatively, it *is* manipulative. And the paradigm of the site allows, encourages, you do do just that.
That, for a "Christian" forum, is a mistake.
Green, they want someone to blame..but it won't hold water on the Last Day. They blame us for pushing them away. No, they chose to walk away...I totally agree with you on this. SO sad.
I wasn't witnessing at all. I didn't point a finger at you...but at the whining about how bad us Christians are. Trust me, I know I have alot to be accountable for..but one of them isn't weather an atheist CHOSE to walk away or not.And on that Day, you won't be able to deny your accountability in being a bad witness.
No, bro. Their being Biblical is what makes them Truth.I don't care if they're Biblical, they're wrong.
Ok... I seriously don't know who or wat you're talking about here...They know themselves a helluva lot better than you think you know them.
Again, moo? Nature? Heart? What?Before I joined this site, I would have never guessed people would be so arrogant as to assume to know another's nature and heart better than I. Little did I know it's quite commonplace.
Oh for goodness sake. You're speaking out of great anger, so why don't we approach this rationally.It's you that doesn't want to hear the truth about them. You want to hide behind your Bible, and condemn them and feel damn good about doing it so you don't have to ever think about what they say, or what they do, and the very real and damn good reasons why they don't believe, including the behaviour and attitudes of other Christians.
Free exchange is where *everyone* is free to speak. You've made it abundantly clear you'd rather Bible-believing Christians keep it to themselves. In what way is that a free exchange?Well no longer. Now there will be a free exchange of ideas, and let the better man win I say.
Yep, we've all been dreadfully hurt by fellow Christians, both in person, and online. The church is in a terrible state today.The fact that so many Christians here are running now that the gloves are essentially taken off, and the staff and rules are baised in their favor.
I believe in Jesus, but that's in spite of many other Christians. Not long ago, I was a non-believer, and they're honestly a lot better than many of the Christians in my short time here.
You're a cynic, because you're cold hearted, and you need to be in a relationship with Jesus.
that was rude of that person. But don't deny Jesus because some one acted that way. Quit trying to blame everyone else. Take responsibility for yourself and your actions...This is why I don't like CHristians, and refuse to identify myself as one.
Ok, let's discuss what you don't like about that statement.This is why I don't like CHristians, and refuse to identify myself as one.
Free exchange is where *everyone* is free to speak. You've made it abundantly clear you'd rather Bible-believing Christians keep it to themselves. In what way is that a free exchange?
But someone's relationship with Jesus is between them and Jesus. It is unacceptable to claim that someone standing up for Biblical mandate is driving them away.
No, bro. Their being Biblical is what makes them Truth.
Ok... I seriously don't know who or wat you're talking about here...
No-one said a single thing that would imply they thought they were a better person than you.
And lest you think I'm saying that as a flame, I say that as a child of God, who wants very much for you to be saved.
yet you frequent Christian Forums.This is why I don't like CHristians, and refuse to identify myself as one.
Blaming the non christian for not accepting what the Christian has to say is also a convenient way of shifting the blame and avoiding taking responsibility for their own behavior.Green, they want someone to blame..but it won't hold water on the Last Day. They blame us for pushing them away. No, they chose to walk away...I totally agree with you on this. SO sad.
that was rude of that person. But don't deny Jesus because some one acted that way. Quit trying to blame everyone else. Take responsibility for yourself and your actions...
Should I have worded it differently? If it was worded badly, I'm truly sorry. Let me clarify. I became a Christian a year and a half ago, and beforehand, that's what made me so cynical. Being cold-hearted is a spiritual issue, not one of being a good or bad person.
Being a Christian means Jesus enters your heart and breathes life into it. Before that, we are *all* cold-hearted. Even the kindest of people.
yet you frequent Christian Forums.
My Irony meter just broke.
IOW, you frequent the site to do no more than disagree.I never said I hated argueing with Christians.
Buy a better one next time.
I don't recall mentioning persection... I reject the fallacy that CF is now open to a free exchange.This is completely moronic right here. I never said you shouldn't be allowed to say stupid things. Disagreement isn't persecution. Why is that such a hard concept the grasp?
Bro, if pride like that is what makes you happy, you're truly welcome to it. If "knocking people down" makes you feel good, you're welcome to it.Besides, I know I can win any debate against you or any Christian in here, why would I want to have you shut you up when knocking you around just makes me look good.
Well, give me an example...If the Bible flies in the face of reality and what is obviously true, instead of what is claimed to be true, then the Bible is wrong.
Aren't you doing exactly what you accused me of? How do you know what my beliefs are, or how I came to be where I am?I have not, nor will I ever substitute reason with faith as you have.
Dude. See above.You and others in here seem to think you knows the hearts and minds of non-Christians better than they themselves.
Of course people are slaves! We are slaves until Jesus, because He frees us. Lookit, given *all* the glory goes to God, I seriously don't see how anything I'm saying is holier-than-thou. Not one Christian - or non-Christian - deserves to be saved. Not one of us. Christians are saved by grace; not because they're good people.What? Maybe this is like when you can't smell your own BO, but every one your posts has reaked of a holier-than-thou attitude. "Cold-hearted", as if you're not? "Freed", as if we're slaves" Someone talking about total depravity earlier. All This talk of "wolves", and "spiritual pedophiles", and "decievers", and "non-believers can't be trusted to govern believers", blah, blah, blah.
This is just hyperbole. How can you presume to prescribe motives to what I say?"Malice dressed in pious clothing", now where did I hear that...?
Moma always said a Christian will stab you in the back in the name of Jesus. Guess she was right.
IOW, you frequent the site to do no more than disagree.
And you get angry when somebody might state you are diagreeable?
Two things.Cold-hearted is a meaningless bloody insult with no intellectual value. "Oh great, I'm cold-hearted now, do I drink some coffee for that?" "Cold-hearted" isn't constructive critism.
Not to mention you have to know someone before you can insult them, otherwise it's just laughable.
I can only assume you've been mistreated *appallingly* to be this angry at people you don't even know.That just doesn't make sense. "The nicest people are cold-hearted until they find Jesus", then why the hell are some of you the most dispicable, cold-hearted, peices of dog feces you'll ever meet?
Why do you feel angry? Because you disagree with me?What you tossin our doesn't match with reality. That's why it's not wrong. Intellectual dishonesty and fluff doesn't help anyone do anything but get angry.
What if Christians are guilty of circular reasoning? Using knowledge without facts can easily lead us to a clearly false conclusion. Conclusions drawn in this manner are usually overgeneralizations. Christians filled with the Holy Spirit do not make assumption and will not act like Job's friends, making bad assumption based on what someone is facing when they don't know all of the facts.
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