new and lost

seekinghim26 said:

Forgive this odd question and I'll try to ask it as sensitively as I can. I believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. When I read the new testament I feel fire inside. I have believed in Him since i was a little girl. But I'm new to mainstream Christianity. I've just learned that the belief is that God is invisible and manifests Himself in different ways. So, if He manifested Himself as Jesus but then went back to what He was, does Jesus even exist anymore or is God an invisible force that can manifest as anyone? I've always pictured Him as He was on Earth when I pray and now I'm feeling a bit jolted, wondering if I even know who God is.

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Yeah Christ is up there at the right hand of God. God and Christ are one in the same. God is omnipotent and can be at all places in many forms at the same time.

Try this forum too. It's more active as you'll get more replies and increase your chances of getting the answer you need.

http://www.christianforums.com/f232/

seekinghim26 said:

Forgive this odd question and I'll try to ask it as sensitively as I can. I believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. When I read the new testament I feel fire inside. I have believed in Him since i was a little girl. But I'm new to mainstream Christianity. I've just learned that the belief is that God is invisible and manifests Himself in different ways. So, if He manifested Himself as Jesus but then went back to what He was, does Jesus even exist anymore or is God an invisible force that can manifest as anyone? I've always pictured Him as He was on Earth when I pray and now I'm feeling a bit jolted, wondering if I even know who God is.

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Jesus is not just a manifestation of God, He is God. A study of the Trinity would seem to be in order for you.

Good counsel here, so I recommend you act on it my friend. Look up always!

As already pointed out, Jesus was not just a "manifestation" of God. Traditionally Christians believe in the Trinity - that God exists eternally in three Persons: Father, Son, & Holy Spirit. Jesus is considered to be the Son incarnate, the God-man.

Explaining the Trinity is difficult, if not impossible. It is a divine mystery.

I recommend this little book on the "basics" of Christianity. You may be able to find an online copy.

Dear seekinghim26. Jesus is God-Son, and Jesus died for us that we might live. In John 14: 2: Jesus tells us: " In my Father`s house are many mansions:
if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."
There is God-Father, God-Son, and God-Holy Spirit, One great God who Loves
us. Jesus our Saviour will lead us there. God-Holy Spirit, will help and guide us also.
I say this with love. Greetings rom Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Emmy said in post 8:

There is God-Father, God-Son, and God-Holy Spirit, One great God who Loves us.

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Amen.

Jesus Christ is God (John 1:1,14, John 10:30, John 20:28, Titus 2:13, Philippians 2:6, Matthew 1:23). And he is uncreated God, just as God the Father is uncreated God. For everything created was created by Jesus (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17). Because Jesus is uncreated, there was never a time when he was not. He has always existed. He is YHWH the Holy One, from everlasting (Habakkuk 1:12a, Acts 3:14, Micah 5:2c). He is YHWH the only Savior (Isaiah 43:11, Titus 2:13), YHWH the good shepherd (Psalms 23:1, John 10:11, Mark 10:18), YHWH who will set his feet on the Mount of Olives at his return (Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12), YHWH the first and last (Isaiah 44:6, Revelation 2:8), YHWH the great I AM (Exodus 3:14, John 8:58), the great God (Titus 2:13), the mighty God (Isaiah 9:6), one God with God the Father (John 10:30, John 20:28), equal in divinity to God the Father (Philippians 2:6).

Just as the Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19) is the 3 distinct, coexisting Persons (Mark 1:9-11) of God the Father (Galatians 1:3), God the Son (Hebrews 1:8), and God the Holy Spirit (cf. Mark 13:11 and Matthew 10:19-20; Acts 5:3-4), so the Trinity is YHWH the Father, YHWH the Son, and YHWH the Holy Spirit. For YHWH is the only God (Isaiah 45:5-6). He has always been and forever will be the only God (Isaiah 43:10b).

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There are so many ways to illustrate the Trinity (the Tri-Unity of God) that it shouldn't be difficult for every Christian to get at least some realization of it. While there is no sufficient analogy to completely explain God (Isaiah 40:18), how he can be one God (John 10:30) and yet 3 Persons at the same time (Matthew 3:16-17), the Bible does refer to God speaking things into existence (Genesis 1:24; Hebrews 11:3). And what he spoke was his Word, who is that Person of the Trinity who has become flesh in Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14; 1 Timothy 3:16, Luke 24:39). But God the Word existed even before God the Father spoke anything into existence, for all things created were created by God the Word (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17). And the original Greek word in John 1:1,14 for "Word" is "Logos", which refers not only to spoken words, but also to any ordered thoughts. God has always had ordered thoughts, so God the Word has always existed.

So a human analogy for God would have God the Father as the mind, and God the Word as the ordered thoughts, speech, and writings (incarnate words) of that mind. God the Holy Spirit would be analogous to the breath (spirit) which is inextricable from human speech, and also from ordered thought, in that a non-breathing person is dead and his brain has no thoughts. God the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4) is one God with God the Father and God the Word because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father (Matthew 10:19-20 and Mark 13:11) and the Spirit of the Word (John 14:16-18, Romans 8:9). While an individual human isn't 3 persons, the truth about God can still be grasped by looking at man's design, for man was made in God's image (Genesis 1:26). Just as an individual man has his word (Revelation 12:11) and his spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23), so the one God has his Word (John 1:1) and his Spirit (Romans 8:9). But the one God is so infinitely greater than man (Isaiah 40:17) that the Word of God and the Spirit of God are distinct Persons within his single being.

Besides the analogy of a single human's mind, thoughts/speech/writings, and breath, the Trinity can be compared to the single sun's sphere, light, and heat. The Father would be analogous to the sun's sphere, which is invisible to humans except for its visible light, which is analogous to the incarnate, visible Word (Colossians 1:15, John 14:9). And the sun is felt by humans via its invisible, infrared rays, which would be analogous to the Spirit. The Trinity can also be compared to water, which even though it is one substance, it can exist in 3 states of solid, liquid, and gas at the same time (such as in a water pitcher 2/3 full with water and ice cubes, and with water vapor filling the top third of the pitcher). The Trinity can also be compared to space, which even though it is one area, it consists of 3 dimensions at the same time. The Trinity can also be compared to 1 x 1 x 1 = 1, or to 1a x 1b x 1c = 1abc.

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Jesus prays to God the Father (e.g. John 11:41-42) because even though Jesus is God (John 1:1,14), at the same time he is also human just like we are human (Hebrews 2:17). And so, as a human, he has a God and Father just like we do (John 20:17). Before Jesus became our eternally-human mediator/high priest (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 2:17, Hebrews 7:24-26), and the only-begotten (only-born) Son of God (John 3:16), the only human ever born without any human father (Luke 1:34-35), he preexisted (John 17:5, John 8:58) from all eternity as God the Word (John 1:1,14; 1 Timothy 3:16). He has always been, and still is, even now in human flesh (Luke 24:39; 2 John 1:7), one God with the Father (John 10:30, John 20:28, Titus 2:13), equal in divinity to the Father (Philippians 2:6, Revelation 2:8b, Isaiah 44:6).

In the gospel of John, Jesus said that whomever sees him, sees God the Father. To see Jesus as he was on earth, is to see God the Father. Also, after his resurection, Jesus looked exactly the same when he appeared to his disciples in the locked room

seekinghim26 said:

Forgive this odd question and I'll try to ask it as sensitively as I can. I believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart. When I read the new testament I feel fire inside. I have believed in Him since i was a little girl. But I'm new to mainstream Christianity. I've just learned that the belief is that God is invisible and manifests Himself in different ways. So, if He manifested Himself as Jesus but then went back to what He was, does Jesus even exist anymore or is God an invisible force that can manifest as anyone? I've always pictured Him as He was on Earth when I pray and now I'm feeling a bit jolted, wondering if I even know who God is.

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Jesus came from God, but is separate from God.

Jesus is the very form of God, God is without form.


We worship God through Jesus.


There is no difference between the person of God and the person of Jesus, so your question is like when an apostle asked Jesus, "Show us the Father", and what did Jesus respond?

The Athanasian Creed:

Whoever wills to be in a state of salvation, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith, which except everyone shall have kept whole and undefiled without doubt he will perish eternally.
Now the catholic faith is that we worship One God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is One, the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit; the Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated; the father infinite, the Son infinite, and the Holy Spirit infinite; the Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet not three eternals but one eternal, as also not three infinites, nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one infinite. So, likewise, the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty; and yet not three almighties but one almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son God, and the Holy Spirit God; and yet not three Gods but one God. So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; and yet not three Lords but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be both God and Lord; so are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords.
The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made nor created but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and the Son, not made nor created nor begotten but proceeding. So there is one Father not three Fathers, one Son not three Sons, and Holy Spirit not three Holy Spirits. And in this Trinity there is nothing before or after, nothing greater or less, but the whole three Persons are coeternal together and coequal.
So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the trinity in Unity and the Unity in Trinity is to be worshipped. He therefore who wills to be in a state of salvation, let him think thus of the Trinity.
But it is necessary to eternal salvation that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. The right faith therefore is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.
He is God of the substance of the Father begotten before the worlds, and He is man of the substance of His mother born in the world; perfect God, perfect man subsisting of a reasoning soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood.
Who although He be God and Man yet He is not two but one Christ; one however not by conversion of the GodHead in the flesh, but by taking of the Manhood in God; one altogether not by confusion of substance but by unity of Person. For as the reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ.
Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again from the dead, ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, from whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life eternal, and they who indeed have done evil into eternal fire.
This is the catholic faith, which except a man shall have believed faithfully and firmly he cannot be in a state of salvation.

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The Definition of Chalcedon, which clarifies this creed:

Following, then, the holy fathers, we unite in teaching all men to confess the one and only Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. This selfsame one is perfect both in deity and in humanness; this selfsame one is also actually God and actually man, with a rational soul and a body. He is of the same reality as God as far as his deity is concerned and of the same reality as we ourselves as far as his humanness is concerned; thus like us in all respects, sin only excepted. Before time began he was begotten of the Father, in respect of his deity, and now in these "last days," for us and behalf of our salvation, this selfsame one was born of Mary the virgin, who is God-bearer in respect of his humanness.
We also teach that we apprehend this one and only Christ-Son, Lord, only-begotten -- in two natures; and we do this without confusing the two natures, without transmuting one nature into the other, without dividing them into two separate categories, without contrasting them according to area or function. The distinctiveness of each nature is not nullified by the union. Instead, the "properties" of each nature are conserved and both natures concur in one "person" and in one reality . They are not divided or cut into two persons, but are together the one and only and only-begotten Word of God, the Lord Jesus Christ. Thus have the prophets of old testified; thus the Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us; thus the Symbol of Fathers has handed down to us.

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