New Age in agriculture

[BigNorsk]

New Age roots
I would agree that many if not most of the people who eat organic food aren't doing it for life force but instead thinking it's safer or better for the environment.

Now my basic thesis would be that it might be, certainly it likely is compared to the mammon worshippers.

But the two have been really combined in interesting ways so now it's possible to worship mammon and be New Age all at the same time. For instance processed organic food now is okayed to use many of the nonorganic by their definition products in order to make a consumer acceptable product. That's right, in order to get market share, organic food is okayed to contain nonorganic, by their definition things. The assumption is that that is for the better good to gain market share. So now the worship of mammon comes in, how very unhippie like.

Now for suggested reading, it's useful to go back to the sources.

To understand this you need to go back to Dr. Rudolf Steiner. It is his teachings that are the foundation for biodynamic farming. Where what takes place in your garden or field is related to the entire cosmos.
http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/PDF/biodynam.pdf
does a good job of explaining biodynamic farming. If you miss the New Age let me know. It also lists the basics of the fundamental preparations.

They are used at homeopathic quantities meaning there is so little used it is impossible for them to have any effect.

Steiner's idea was that the land was sick and one needed to make medicines to heal it. And then, but applying the right composts, and planting at the right moon phases and such the field became once more healed and right with the universe.

The biodynamic gardening association has their astrological recommendations online: 2008 Recommendations from the Josephine Porter Institute for Applied Biodynamics

The contribution of biodynamic farming to organic is significant though it went through some changes. All biodynamic food though is also certifyable as organic the same agencies certify it.

Now of course I don't think that people are intending to get involved in New Age worship, no more than the Christians who bought meat in the marketplace sacrificed to idols.

That said though. Should we give our money to people who ultimately use it to promote false religions?

Should we automatically assume it's better just because it's claimed to be by true believers?

Marv

 

[Tangible]

While I understand that you wish to avoid all appearance of evil, I think that you may be making a mountain out of a molehill here.

While John Jeavons, Dr. Steiner, Josephine Porter, et al. may have some vaguely "spiritual" ideas about their horticultural methods, I think it's safe to say that merely using their gardening techniques, even if you go all out with their homeopathic ingredients (which probably only a very small fraction of practitioners would do) I think it's safe to say that using these methods in your backyard garden or purchasing produce raised using these methods hardly constitutes bowing down to an altar of Mammon, as long as you are not personally putting faith in these spiritual aspects that you mentioned.

If we start rejecting good, wholesome food based on some vague, rumored suspicions (probably based if the truth be known more on suspicion and prejudicial loathing of anything to do with "hippies" than anything else) then we'll have to take a serious look at the beliefs of people and cultures that produced much of the food plants and farming techniques we all benefit from on a daily basis.

1) Irrigation, plowing: Widely used by the pagan ancient Mesopotamian and Egyptian cultures who worshipped false gods. Ancient fertility rites, including sacrificing to false gods were included in the yearly agricultural cycle.

2) Wheat, barley, wine grapes: Also grown and developed in ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt. Probably even offered as sacrifices to the false gods.

3) Sheep, cattle, goats: Raised by many ancient pagan cultures and used in blood sacrifices to a veritable pantheon of false gods.

4) Corn (Maize): Domesticated and raised by pagan Mesoamerican cultures, some of which are known to have practiced human sacrifice.

5) How many of us have grandparents who used the farmer's almanac and planted root crops in the dark of the moon and cereals in the full moon? Were they really involved in a New Age religion?

I think you see where I'm going with this.

Can you honestly say that you would refuse your neighbor's gift of a basket of fresh, vine-ripened, organically grown tomatoes in favor of the hard, flavorless, greenhouse tomatoes from the grocery store?

While we're talking about Mammon, let's pause to consider all those companies that produce agricultural products. Are they not corporations in business to produce a profit for the shareholders? Nothing wrong with making a living, but you know as well as I that corporations do not serve God, they exist to serve the stockholders of the company and return a profit for their investment, aka Mammon.

Also, the term "New Age" is really pretty meaningless. I've only ever seen it used by people who didn't really have a very good grasp of the beliefs and practices they were opposing, and who were merely reacting in fear and xenophobia instead of actually trying to engage with non-Christians to share the Gospel with them.

 

[94Preacher]

The Term New Age really isnt that meaningless. It is a generalized term that covers a wide variety of beliefs. Technically one could say the same thing about the term Pagan. Pagan covers a wide range of beliefs as well from the Christian perspective. It is a good blanket term when one doesn't want to get nitty-gritty on certain spiritist views.

 

[Studeclunker]

Duuuude, like, organic food is... like, its the right thing to eat, man. Like, you want to, you know, take care of the bod, man. You know? Like, you eat garbage, you know, you become, like, garbage, you know what I mean? Like, ya know, man?

By the way man... Like, what's wrong with Hippies? It's like peace, and love... you know? We want to like, respect the enviro, man. Mother Earth is our home and we should keep her, like, you know, clean, man... you know? I'm like, bummed out at the negative vibes around here, man. It's not cool man.

LOL, this old hippie can tell you that my father practiced organic gardening techniques at our house in So. Cal. and organic farming techniques at the Ranch. He looked at it as just common sense. We still sprayed the apple trees with the same oil preparation, which the O.F.s would frown upon now-days. In fact, my father convinced three gentlemen farmers in the Mt. Lassen area to switch over to organic farming techniques. Who knows if their families continued the practice.

 

[94Preacher]

I see nothing wrong with organic food production personally. Then again, I see nothing wrong with using radiation to kill bateria on food either haha. You'll find people arguing on both sides of the matter. The truth is, as long as the food is safe to eat thats all that should matter. I dislike the garbage being spread about organic food being healthier as that is not true. I will admit a home grown tomato is tops, but thats because there is love in that tomato haha. But I'm all for someone using alts. to pesticides if they think it helps.

Of course there are some roots to spiritualist practices in some of these organic growing methods. Then again, they probably stole those practices from the guy who had common sense to come up with them and added some spiritual aspect to it haha. Thats what "new agers" are best at from what I've seen. Taking the ordinary and putting some mystical significance on it that isn't necessary haha.

 

[BigNorsk]

The people who thrive on making accusations and implying that wholesome food is less than safe on a daily basis are the organic people.

It's a daily barrage.

Would I turn down fresh vine ripened tomatoes for store bought tomatoes. No, not unless I saw him spreading fresh manure on the tomatoes that afternoon. Or if he was a believer in the New Age mumbo jumbo of organic production, then it would be my responsibility to not partake. If he called them organic I'd likely have to point out to him where they actually aren't by definition. He likely bought transplants (right there not organic unless certified) He also likely fertilizes his lawn around the garden. Right there not organic without suitable buffer zone. And if he sprayed dandelions his garden is not organic. And so on.

Sure his tomatoes are likely fine to eat. The point is so is everyone elses. Even those ones harvested green and rather tasteless so they can be shipped long distances.

I wouldn't turn down delicious local nonorganic produce to run to Whole Earth Foods and buy certified organic from China either.

Heck, it's that time of year around here where you have to lock your car or it spontaneously fills up with corn and zucchini. It's not organic, but it's sure good.

All those other false religions, I don't hear them on the radio and on the tv and in print promoting their religion and saying the healthy food that is being produced what would be called conventionally is dangerous.

Now the mammon worshippers, they give that name conventional a bad name.

It's like the guy shipping rotten peanuts. The peanuts are rotten? You don't feed them to people, if they aren't too bad you feed them to livestock, if they are really bad you destroy them.

I'm not sayiing there isn't more than one way to produce food. I'm not saying dip everything three times in pesticide before eating. What I'm saying is the basic foundational tenants of organic farming are based on a false religion.

They would say a molecule from one source is good and an identical molecule from another source is bad. You can't measure a single difference between them, there is none, but as an article of their faith, they believe there is. It's an article of faith. A false faith.

Marv

 

[Tangible]

The people who thrive on making accusations and implying that wholesome food is less than safe on a daily basis are the organic people.

It's a daily barrage.

I don't experience a daily barrage of this kind of stuff, but whenever I do I usually just tune it out. Some people who spout this kind of stuff have a vested interest in the promotion of the certified organic trade. As they say, follow the money.

Would I turn down fresh vine ripened tomatoes for store bought tomatoes. No, not unless I saw him spreading fresh manure on the tomatoes that afternoon. Or if he was a believer in the New Age mumbo jumbo of organic production, then it would be my responsibility to not partake.

Let's talk about your last sentence there. As I understand Paul, he supports what you might call the grandaddy of 'don't ask, don't tell' at least when it comes to meat offered to idols.

Food Offered to Idols

8:1 Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, he is known by God.
4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” 5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
7 However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11 And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12 Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

Paul's main point here is that food is food, and unless eating something will somehow harm the faith of a weaker brother, then as the Italians say, Mangiare! Paul picks up this same line further down in chapter 10.

Heck, it's that time of year around here where you have to lock your car or it spontaneously fills up with corn and zucchini. It's not organic, but it's sure good.

There was a man who was loosely connected to an old church I attended who would bring around a pickup load of freshly picked sweet corn and give it all away as everyone was leaving church. Some of the best corn I've ever had.

I'm not sayiing there isn't more than one way to produce food. I'm not saying dip everything three times in pesticide before eating. What I'm saying is the basic foundational tenants of organic farming are based on a false religion.

They would say a molecule from one source is good and an identical molecule from another source is bad. You can't measure a single difference between them, there is none, but as an article of their faith, they believe there is. It's an article of faith. A false faith.

Yes, but it's a false faith in that it's not a real faith. It's not real. That's what Paul is saying in 1 Cor 8:1-6 above. So what if they think there's something spiritual going on? We know there isn't. So unless it will harm someone else's faith to eat it, dig in!

1 Cor 10:26-27 For “the earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof.” If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience.

 

[BigNorsk]

I should say that I mentioned hippies only in passing for the simple reason is that movement is very much a part of the roots of the organic movement.

It's the Age of Aquarius man.

It's the source of much of the antiestablishment thinking.

For instance antibiotics are generally not allowed. This despite the fact that many of them are natural substances produced by living organisms. Antibiotics are every bit as much organic as say permethrin or rotenone insecticides are.

Their nonuse seems only to be due to the fact that they were used, and in some cases misused in "conventional" agriculture.

One of the big objections is the feeding of antibiotics to nonsick animals. Interestingly though, that evidently is not objected to by all because there is a proposal to allow organic producers to grow their own fungal cultures and feed the fungal cultures to their livestock.

Which is to say they want to feed antibiotics to nonsick animals, just to do it without a company that is responsible for things like quality control, that they buy it from.

I just about dropped a loaf when I read that one.

But people don't understand. For instance I would have no problem with no allowing most antibiotics to be routinely included in feed. However it shouldn't be a blanket ban, it should be done with the knowledge we have.

Take Rumensin. It's an antibiotic, been fed to cattle for a long time now. It doesn't represent a risk to people because it's quite different than antibiotics that would be used on people.

It does several things. One, it pretty well prevents any acidosis or bloating in a feedlot. So it prevents deaths. The other thing it does is the really neat thing. What it does is it changes how the cow's stomach processes the food in one place. This has the effect of giving a better feed efficiency, that is more beef for a given amount of feed. And where that efficiency comes from is it stops the production of methane from a cow.

You've probably heard repeatedly how cows are causing global warming and so on. It's because of the production of greenhouse gasses, especially methane by cows. Well Rumensin, an antibiotic around since the 60's pretty well prevents that.

No reason not to use Rumensin other than a religious belief against it. It presents no hazard, and is beneficial to the environment. Sometimes, like grazing animals it is hard to get them to eat enough of it to have it work, so generally it's just used in feedlots. It would make more sense to require it where it's possible to use it. But the organic people are working hard trying to outlaw it. I think they might even get it outlawed.

Marv

 

[Tangible]

I think governments, non-governmental regulating bodies, business associations, and individuals are most likely to be in error when they take extreme positions on anything that doesn't have to do with God, his holiness and his grace.

I thank God that even though he is absolutely holy, he is also absolutely gracious and forgiving to me - because I know I'm absolutely sinful.

Marv, you've obviously got a bee in your bonnet over this whole organic/natural food thing, but before there gets to be any ill feelings here, I think I'm going to buzz off.

Love you, man! Big hug!