Sanoy

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You "logic" does not follow scripture----that is the point.
It is also very obvious that you have no idea what Daniel and the prophecies are all about,nor have a very good understanding of the very simple rendering of Jude. And it's obvious you do not comprehend how the bible was written originally or I would not have had to explain every single passage that you are getting totally wrong. Not to mention an even slight acquaintance with genetics. If you wish to remain in your darkened condition, I can only pray that the day will come when your eyes will be opened to the truth of God and not the fables of man. I have no problem with the resurrection--so far you have not managed to cloud that one up. And I have read the book of Enoch and you can have it. Those who believe in it have never been able to stay with the plain truth of the bible. And if you can't get a little book like Jude right, I don't expect you can get too far with Enoch either. You have my condolences and will continue to pray for you--0I leave yo0u to your fairytales-0yo0u have given not one single new nor different insight that I have not heard before in over 35 years---Only a few former Enoch believers have finally seen the light and moved on and left that false teaching--I certainly hope one day you will be one of them. Thank you and good bye.
Logic either follows internally or it doesn't. That Angels can become as men is culturally verified in the second temple era. It is only in this modern area where the heresy that they cannot is derived. It is an anachronism.

After 35 years how is it that your final comment is nothing but assertion. After 35 years how is it that you can walk away failing every core challenge I have presented you and still hold to what you believe? After 35 years how is it that you do not have a single fact to support your case? Think about it, if you are so right then why is this so hard?

I don't know what the prophecies are about? Really? Who mistook Hosea? Me or you? And how would you know what my understanding of Jude is when I did not follow into your Red Herring and give you the standard reading? I don't know how the Bible was originally written? But I told you that the Aramaic word means giants and that is literally what the Bible says it is, it is you who says it doesn't and failed to complete my challenge to show that it was a mistake without question begging. You very much have to explain "every single passage" because it isn't a plain reading of the text. Every one of your text readings is circular, you have to assume the conclusion to read it in the text because it is not in the text. You pray to God that my eyes are opened and yet you stand here with the opportunity to do so through evidence yet you fail to have any. If such evidence exists why is it not manifested? You have no problem with the resurrection, neither do I but I don't require scientific and medical evidence of it. Did you happen to find some that you are withholding? I will take the Book of Enoch, thanks, it is quoted in Jude as prophecy, and therefore contains scripture. You say that I have not said anything new. So I assume you have heard of the Igigi? The apkallu? Are you telling me the truth right now mmksparbud?

As you appear to be done, I hope you will think over this exchange privately where you are able to think freely about it.
 
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mmksparbud

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Logic either follows internally or it doesn't. That Angels can become as men is culturally verified in the second temple era. It is only in this modern area where the heresy that they cannot is derived. It is an anachronism.

After 35 years how is it that your final comment is nothing but assertion. After 35 years how is it that you can walk away failing every core challenge I have presented you and still hold to what you believe? After 35 years how is it that you do not have a single fact to support your case? Think about it, if you are so right then why is this so hard?

I don't know what the prophecies are about? Really? Who mistook Hosea? Me or you? And how would you know what my understanding of Jude is when I did not follow into your Red Herring and give you the standard reading? I don't know how the Bible was originally written? But I told you that the Aramaic word means giants and that is literally what the Bible says it is, it is you who says it doesn't and failed to complete my challenge to show that it was a mistake without question begging. You very much have to explain "every single passage" because it isn't a plain reading of the text. Every one of your text readings is circular, you have to assume the conclusion to read it in the text because it is not in the text. You pray to God that my eyes are opened and yet you stand here with the opportunity to do so through evidence yet you fail to have any. If such evidence exists why is it not manifested? You have no problem with the resurrection, neither do I but I don't require scientific and medical evidence of it. Did you happen to find some that you are withholding? I will take the Book of Enoch, thanks, it is quoted in Jude as prophecy, and therefore contains scripture. You say that I have not said anything new. So I assume you have heard of the Igigi? The apkallu? Are you telling me the truth right now mmksparbud?


If you would pay less attention to ancient pagan religious believes and delve into the bible--esp. in it's original language--you would be far better off. You're falling into Satan's trap and being diverted into foolishness instead of what is important in the bible. Of course I know about Igigi and Apkallu--no big deal and something I quite looking into 40 years ago.--also when I gave up reading taro cards. "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me"--God held a deem view of those who dealt in those gods. And I can understand why you fall so easily for this stuff when you study into that stuff..
You fail to realize that it took the Holy Spirit to change the everlasting Son of God into a human, but you want to believe that a fallen angel can do so without any help from God. I will ask you only one thing --- name one verse that states a fallen angel eats anything--just one verse. You want to believe God's loving angels have human stomachs because they ate--go ahead---but those angels were God's angels, not fallen ones. What makes you think fallen angels have any powers beyond what God allows? Even Satan had to ask permission from God before He could lay a finger to Job---go this far and no further He said. And you call that logic. You've been given articles that state the different meanings of those verses, but you dismiss them in favor of what you want to believe. You dismiss the scholars behind them in favor of those who want to have fallen angels do what Jesus Christ Himself required the Holy Spirit to do. You want to give fallen angels the power to change the creation of God, that He made in His own image, into the image of fallen angels. God is not going to allow that--yet you call it logic and insist God did just that.
Satan and all his minions put together can not stand against one holy man or woman of God--do you not know that? No fallen angel has the power to go beyond what God Himself draws the line at. Adam and Eve listened to lies of the devil and choose to believe them over the plainly stated command of God.
Are you also one of those that believe that the sin of Eve was to have sex with Satan and he was the father of Cain? You can not get them to see the foolishness of what they believe either. Even when you point out the obvious they insist that Adam knew Eve and she conceived and bare Cain means Adam is the father--no, they insist--it doesn't say Adam was his father---it is a hopeless conversation--as this one is.
You wish to believe that Daniel is being shown all the future kingdoms of this world, from Babylon to Rome, but all of a sudden the toes are talking about fallen angels having sex with women---that is your logic. You choose to believe the interpretation of verses that suit your theories. Fine--
1Co_3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
I think we are done--don't you?
 
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Sanoy

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If you would pay less attention to ancient pagan religious believes and delve into the bible--esp. in it's original language--you would be far better off. You're falling into Satan's trap and being diverted into foolishness instead of what is important in the bible. Of course I know about Igigi and Apkallu--no big deal and something I quite looking into 40 years ago.--also when I gave up reading taro cards. "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me"--God held a deem view of those who dealt in those gods. And I can understand why you fall so easily for this stuff when you study into that stuff..
You fail to realize that it took the Holy Spirit to change the everlasting Son of God into a human, but you want to believe that a fallen angel can do so without any help from God. I will ask you only one thing --- name one verse that states a fallen angel eats anything--just one verse. You want to believe God's loving angels have human stomachs because they ate--go ahead---but those angels were God's angels, not fallen ones. What makes you think fallen angels have any powers beyond what God allows? Even Satan had to ask permission from God before He could lay a finger to Job---go this far and no further He said. And you call that logic. You've been given articles that state the different meanings of those verses, but you dismiss them in favor of what you want to believe. You dismiss the scholars behind them in favor of those who want to have fallen angels do what Jesus Christ Himself required the Holy Spirit to do. You want to give fallen angels the power to change the creation of God, that He made in His own image, into the image of fallen angels. God is not going to allow that--yet you call it logic and insist God did just that.
Satan and all his minions put together can not stand against one holy man or woman of God--do you not know that? No fallen angel has the power to go beyond what God Himself draws the line at. Adam and Eve listened to lies of the devil and choose to believe them over the plainly stated command of God.
Are you also one of those that believe that the sin of Eve was to have sex with Satan and he was the father of Cain? You can not get them to see the foolishness of what they believe either. Even when you point out the obvious they insist that Adam knew Eve and she conceived and bare Cain means Adam is the father--no, they insist--it doesn't say Adam was his father---it is a hopeless conversation--as this one is.
You wish to believe that Daniel is being shown all the future kingdoms of this world, from Babylon to Rome, but all of a sudden the toes are talking about fallen angels having sex with women---that is your logic. You choose to believe the interpretation of verses that suit your theories. Fine--
1Co_3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
I think we are done--don't you?
I read it word for word using an interlinear. If what I have been saying is pagan then Paul, the author of Jude, Daniel, and the author of the Torah are also pagan. Your heretical beliefs succeed in both harming the authors of scripture as well as yourself through the deliberate manipulation of scripture in accordance to your preset beliefs which you confess is part of your Hermeneutical practice in post 19.

Jesus has appeared as a man before (judges 6), but he was incarnated through birth as the Messiah. If you will recall the Messiah had to come from the line of David. There are no verses of "fallen" angels eating anything, but there are plenty of verses showing angels have the appearance of men, including eating which you yourself have quoted. I'm confused by the need to show that fallen angels can also eat. I believe that...

P1. Angels can become as men (based on standard beliefs in the second temple period as well as scriptural evidence.)
P2. Men have stomachs.
C. Therefore angels can have stomachs.
It's really not a complicated line of thinking.

Fallen angels have lots of power. One even withheld the answer to Daniels prayer for 21 days by holding Gabriel captive. They very obviously do retain their power, unless you want to suggest God took this one power away but not the others? That would just be special pleading unless you have evidence for that.

No I do not believe that Eve slept with Satan. Even if I did you would still be wrong about the Nephilim so i'm not sure why you bring it up other than you are searching for something to say having exhausted all your evidence. Last time you used Jude as filler, this time I guess the filler is 'theories that were never brought up that have no bearing on the subject'.

I am simply stating what Daniel literally says. I quoted YLT, that is literally what Daniel says. I don't have to bring up Hitler to explain it, I can just point to what it says.

I used one scholar, Dr Heiser, only to show you a fact, not an opinion. I try to avoid ever using a scholar for their opinion, I try to use them only to announce facts. If you disagree with that fact all you have to do is find 1 single contradiction to it. I will even give you the four he lists if you are interested in backing up your assertion. So there is your fourth challenge which you will fail to meet as well.

Am I done here? No, I can go on and on with new reasons why you are wrong. Are you done? You have been done for the last 3 exchanges where none of my challenges were met, and you are having to insert baseless filler into your replies to make it look like you have something to add. The only thing you have added in the last three exchanges is assertion after assertion in the format of "You this, You that" and filler comments that are merely red herrings.

I also do not believe you about your knowledge of the Igigi and the Apkallu as you have not shown any understanding of common knowledge over ancient beliefs. It is essentially the same thing to exaggerate as to fabricate.
 
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mmksparbud

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I read it word for word using an interlinear. If what I have been saying is pagan then Paul, the author of Jude, Daniel, and the author of the Torah are also pagan. Your heretical beliefs succeed in both harming the authors of scripture as well as yourself through the deliberate manipulation of scripture in accordance to your preset beliefs which you confess is part of your Hermeneutical practice in post 19.

Jesus has appeared as a man before (judges 6), but he was incarnated through birth as the Messiah. If you will recall the Messiah had to come from the line of David. There are no verses of "fallen" angels eating anything, but there are plenty of verses showing angels have the appearance of men, including eating which you yourself have quoted. I'm confused by the need to show that fallen angels can also eat. I believe that...

P1. Angels can become as men (based on standard beliefs in the second temple period as well as scriptural evidence.)
P2. Men have stomachs.
C. Therefore angels can have stomachs.
It's really not a complicated line of thinking.

Fallen angels have lots of power. One even withheld the answer to Daniels prayer for 21 days by holding Gabriel captive. They very obviously do retain their power, unless you want to suggest God took this one power away but not the others? That would just be special pleading unless you have evidence for that.

No I do not believe that Eve slept with Satan. Even if I did you would still be wrong about the Nephilim so i'm not sure why you bring it up other than you are searching for something to say having exhausted all your evidence. Last time you used Jude as filler, this time I guess the filler is 'theories that were never brought up that have no bearing on the subject'.

I am simply stating what Daniel literally says. I quoted YLT, that is literally what Daniel says. I don't have to bring up Hitler to explain it, I can just point to what it says.

I used one scholar, Dr Heiser, only to show you a fact, not an opinion. I try to avoid ever using a scholar for their opinion, I try to use them only to announce facts. If you disagree with that fact all you have to do is find 1 single contradiction to it. I will even give you the four he lists if you are interested in backing up your assertion. So there is your fourth challenge which you will fail to meet as well.

Am I done here? No, I can go on and on with new reasons why you are wrong. Are you done? You have been done for the last 3 exchanges where none of my challenges were met, and you are having to insert baseless filler into your replies to make it look like you have something to add. The only thing you have added in the last three exchanges is assertion after assertion in the format of "You this, You that" and filler comments that are merely red herrings.

I also do not believe you about your knowledge of the Igigi and the Apkallu as you have not shown any understanding of common knowledge over ancient beliefs. It is essentially the same thing to exaggerate as to fabricate.


I was referring to you Igigi and Apkallu. The key word is fallen angels---and they can do nothing without permission from God. As I said, even Satan had to get permission from God to get to Job. They can only do what God allows. It is really not a complicated line of thinking. And if you think God gave permission for them to impregnate women, then turns around and destroys the world because of it--you truly do have a warped view of God. Which is a perilous place to be, for if you do not know God--He will not know you. You go right on with your believes. There is only one way for you to find out, apparently---and the day will come and I do hope you will have truly learned to know God before that day.
LOL!--now you don't believe me to know about your pagan sages and gods.---Whatever--I do wonder how old you are though. Tell you what----you may have the very last word. My last word is that you really need to stay away from those pagan gods and sages. God isn't very fond of any of them. And BTW---
Gen 4:20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Gen 4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

God didn't need the help of half-fish creatures to teach mankind anything---I will respond no further.
 
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Sanoy

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I was referring to you Igigi and Apkallu. The key word is fallen angels---and they can do nothing without permission from God. As I said, even Satan had to get permission from God to get to Job. They can only do what God allows. It is really not a complicated line of thinking. And if you think God gave permission for them to impregnate women, then turns around and destroys the world because of it--you truly do have a warped view of God. Which is a perilous place to be, for if you do not know God--He will not know you. You go right on with your believes. There is only one way for you to find out, apparently---and the day will come and I do hope you will have truly learned to know God before that day.
LOL!--now you don't believe me to know about your pagan sages and gods.---Whatever--I do wonder how old you are though. Tell you what----you may have the very last word. My last word is that you really need to stay away from those pagan gods and sages. God isn't very fond of any of them. And BTW---
Gen 4:20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Gen 4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

God didn't need the help of half-fish creatures to teach mankind anything---I will respond no further.

Angels have free will. If they do not, then God commanded them to fall. We can only do what God allows as well. And yet we sin. Free will, and the ability to carryout that will, which both human and angel have, requires a realm of operation in which to act upon that free will. That is the permission that is given, the permission to act upon our free will for good or evil. Just as God commanded we not eat of the tree of knowledge/evil, and yet we had permission, that being the ability to act upon our will, to do so. So yes, they can only act within a range of what God allows, but God allows all of us to act upon our free will for good or evil. Angels are not an exception to that freedom.

Of course I don't believe you. You have provided no evidence that my beliefs are Pagan, whereas I have given you proof that my beliefs both accord with the writers of scripture, as well as the predominant beliefs of the Jews in the second temple era. To that you have rebutted with nothing but assertion, failing to meet my challenge to provide a single exception.

I have utterly no idea why you tell me to stay away from pagan gods. More "filler" in lieu of an actual response I suppose. I agree, you will not respond further as you have not made a single effective response in the last 4 exchanges. You don'tt even recognize prophecy when it is staring you in the face like in Hosea because you are searching for rebuttal rather trying to understand the scripture and see if it is a rebuttal. You may type words but that does not stand in the place of making an effective response. If you were making effective responses I might see something other than filler and assertion. For example I might see at least one of my challenges met. So I am in complete agreement with you that you will make no further response. And that will be wholly apart from you typing something and hitting send as you have done in the last 4 exchanges.

I can tell by your response that both igigi and apkallu are half-fish that your understanding of those things is merely on the steps leading down to the shallow end of that pool of knowledge. In fact, that response reeks of one just looking it up recently in order to appear knowledgeable about it. Can you honestly state that you did not look that up right before your comments on them? If you can't state that then whose work do you imagine you are accomplishing right now in such an action. Even if your position was right, whose work do you imagine is accomplished in such a thing?

(If you are truly done, know that in my being succinct and direct about your position I bare no I'll feeling toward you. Next time we meet we might share an agreement rather than a disagreement.)
 
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mmksparbud

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OK---and this is the last thing I will say---free will and recreating our God given bodies into something else are not the same thing. The angels in heaven did not need to change their bodies to earthly ones in order to sin. The angels, in fact were created long before there were humans--they were in place before creation week and fell before there were humans created. Satan did not become human in order to tempt Eve, nor did he become a snake--he did appear as one.
Trying to remember something I left behind 40 years ago is not something I like to do. I just remember fishlike creatures as part of Sumerian culture, and have no desire to delve into such garbage again. I left that with my tarot cards. If you want to believe in these Sumerian creatures--that is between you and God, but I suggest you spare God's wrath about it by indoctrinating others with your false believes. There is no place in Christianity for Sumerian sages and demigods and such creatures. God never needed the help of any of Satan's angels to instruct us about anything. They deal only in lies and half truths. And it is your choice as to what voice to believe. I completely rejected that voice 40 years ago.
If you wish to believe scholars, ancient or modern, that agree with your theories, that is also your choice. I choose those that make sense in light of who God is based on the entirety of the bible. I will not divert my salvation into areas that God has not sanctioned. Neither Jew nor Christian retains the book of Enoch in either of their cannons---only the Ethiopian does. I will not go back there again. Satan is working towards the day he will lead humanity in a great deception, and he is setting the ground work for it--it is these ideas that will influence the gullible into believing his lies and half truths away from the clearly stated word of God. I really do not want to live long enough to see those last days--they have already started---I'd much rather wait in the grave until His return than witness such things nor do I want to be a part of Satan's plans in duping others into his web of lies and distortion--there is a price to pay for being on his side--I pray you do not pay it. Good bye.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Absolutely not--I am upholding it, as it was written--from the Mechanical Translation--it is a transliteration of the original Hebrew. It is this mating with fallen angels that is a total fabrication and a contradiction to the very character of God.

MT of the Torah - Home Page
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7) Various Other Signs

People in other countries sometimes go out of their way to communicate with their English-speaking tourists. Unfortunately, the message doesn’t always get communicated as planned. Here is a list of mistranslated signs seen around the world. As you can see, there is no shortage of them.

  • Cocktail lounge, Norway: “Ladies are Requested Not to have Children in the Bar”
  • At a Budapest zoo: “PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS. If you have any suitable food, give it to the guard on duty”
  • Hotel in Acapulco: “The Manager has Personally Passed All the Water Served Here”
  • Car rental brochure, Tokyo: “When passenger of foot heave in sight, tootle the horn. Trumpet him melodiously at first, but if he still obstacles your passage then tootle him with vigor.”
  • On an Athi River highway: “TAKE NOTICE: When this sign is under water, this road is impassable.”
  • Tokyo hotel’s rules and regulations: “Guests are requested NOT to smoke or do other disgusting behaviors in bed.”
  • In an East African newspaper: “A new swimming pool is rapidly taking shape since the contractors have thrown in the bulk of their workers.”
  • Hotel lobby, Bucharest: “The lift is being fixed for the next day. During that time we regret that you will be unbearable.:
  • In Nairobi restaurant: “Customers who find our waitresses rude ought to see the manager.”
  • In a New Zealand restaurant: “Open seven days a week, and weekends too.”
  • Restaurant window: “Don’t stand there and be hungry. Come on in and get fed up.”
  • On the menu of a Swiss restaurant: “Our wines leave you nothing to hope for.”
  • Hotel elevator, Paris: “Please leave your values at the front desk.”
  • A menu in Vienna: “Fried milk, children sandwiches, roast cattle and boiled sheep.”
  • Hotel in Japan: “You are invited to take advantage of the chambermaid.”
  • At a Korean restaurant in Auckland, New Zealand: “We do not re-use the food.”
  • Supermarket, Hong Kong: “For your convenience, we recommend courteous, efficient self-service.”
  • Outside Paris dress shop: “Dresses for street walking.”
  • In a Rhodes tailor shop: “Order your summers suit. Because is big rush we will execute customers in strict rotation.”
  • A sign on a car in Manila, Philippines: “Car and owner for sale.”
  • Hotel in Zurich: “Because of the impropriety of entertaining guests of the opposite sex in the bedroom, is it suggested that the lobby be used for this purpose.”
  • Airline ticket office, Copenhagen: “We take your bags and send them in all directions.”
  • War museum on the River Kwai, Thailand: “The Museum is building now — sorry for the visitor”
  • Outside of Hong Kong: “Ladies may have a fit upstairs.”
  • In a Bangkok dry cleaner’s: “Drop your trousers here for best results.”
  • In an advertisement by a Hong Kong dentist: “Teeth extracted by the latest Methodists.”
  • Doctor’s office, Rome: “Specialists in women and other diseases.”
  • Instructions for a soap bubble gun: “While solution is not toxic it will not make child edible.”
  • In an Italian cemetery: “Persons are prohibited from picking flowers from any but their own graves.”
  • Detour sign in Kyushu, Japan: “Stop: Drive Sideways.”
  • Sign at Mexican disco: “Members and non-members only.”
  • A sign posted in Germany’s Black Forest: “It is strictly forbidden on our black forest camping site that people of different sex, for instance, men and women, live together in one tent unless they are married with each other for that purpose.”
  • Japanese hotel room: “Please to bathe inside the tub.”
  • On a South African building: “Mental health prevention centre.”
  • From Soviet Weekly: “There will be a Moscow Exhibition of Arts by 15,000 Soviet Republic painters and sculptors. These were executed over the past two years.”
  • Instructions on a Korean flight: “Upon arrival at Kimpo and Kimahie Airport, please wear your clothes.”
  • Aeroflot advert: “Introducing wide boiled aircraft for your comfort.”
  • Belgrade hotel elevator: “To move the cabin, push button for wishing floor. If the cabin should enter more persons, each one should press a number of wishing floor. Driving is then going alphabetically by national order.”
  • Athens hotel: “Visitors are expected to complain at the office between the hours of 9 and 11 A.M. daily.”
Those are some of our favorites. Have you seen any funny examples of translation gone wrong in your travels? Let us know!The Funniest Examples of Translation Gone Wrong | LinguaLinx
 
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mmksparbud

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food_guaranteed.png


7) Various Other Signs

People in other countries sometimes go out of their way to communicate with their English-speaking tourists. Unfortunately, the message doesn’t always get communicated as planned. Here is a list of mistranslated signs seen around the world. As you can see, there is no shortage of them.

  • Cocktail lounge, Norway: “Ladies are Requested Not to have Children in the Bar”
  • At a Budapest zoo: “PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS. If you have any suitable food, give it to the guard on duty”
  • Hotel in Acapulco: “The Manager has Personally Passed All the Water Served Here”
  • Car rental brochure, Tokyo: “When passenger of foot heave in sight, tootle the horn. Trumpet him melodiously at first, but if he still obstacles your passage then tootle him with vigor.”
  • On an Athi River highway: “TAKE NOTICE: When this sign is under water, this road is impassable.”
  • Tokyo hotel’s rules and regulations: “Guests are requested NOT to smoke or do other disgusting behaviors in bed.”
  • In an East African newspaper: “A new swimming pool is rapidly taking shape since the contractors have thrown in the bulk of their workers.”
  • Hotel lobby, Bucharest: “The lift is being fixed for the next day. During that time we regret that you will be unbearable.:
  • In Nairobi restaurant: “Customers who find our waitresses rude ought to see the manager.”
  • In a New Zealand restaurant: “Open seven days a week, and weekends too.”
  • Restaurant window: “Don’t stand there and be hungry. Come on in and get fed up.”
  • On the menu of a Swiss restaurant: “Our wines leave you nothing to hope for.”
  • Hotel elevator, Paris: “Please leave your values at the front desk.”
  • A menu in Vienna: “Fried milk, children sandwiches, roast cattle and boiled sheep.”
  • Hotel in Japan: “You are invited to take advantage of the chambermaid.”
  • At a Korean restaurant in Auckland, New Zealand: “We do not re-use the food.”
  • Supermarket, Hong Kong: “For your convenience, we recommend courteous, efficient self-service.”
  • Outside Paris dress shop: “Dresses for street walking.”
  • In a Rhodes tailor shop: “Order your summers suit. Because is big rush we will execute customers in strict rotation.”
  • A sign on a car in Manila, Philippines: “Car and owner for sale.”
  • Hotel in Zurich: “Because of the impropriety of entertaining guests of the opposite sex in the bedroom, is it suggested that the lobby be used for this purpose.”
  • Airline ticket office, Copenhagen: “We take your bags and send them in all directions.”
  • War museum on the River Kwai, Thailand: “The Museum is building now — sorry for the visitor”
  • Outside of Hong Kong: “Ladies may have a fit upstairs.”
  • In a Bangkok dry cleaner’s: “Drop your trousers here for best results.”
  • In an advertisement by a Hong Kong dentist: “Teeth extracted by the latest Methodists.”
  • Doctor’s office, Rome: “Specialists in women and other diseases.”
  • Instructions for a soap bubble gun: “While solution is not toxic it will not make child edible.”
  • In an Italian cemetery: “Persons are prohibited from picking flowers from any but their own graves.”
  • Detour sign in Kyushu, Japan: “Stop: Drive Sideways.”
  • Sign at Mexican disco: “Members and non-members only.”
  • A sign posted in Germany’s Black Forest: “It is strictly forbidden on our black forest camping site that people of different sex, for instance, men and women, live together in one tent unless they are married with each other for that purpose.”
  • Japanese hotel room: “Please to bathe inside the tub.”
  • On a South African building: “Mental health prevention centre.”
  • From Soviet Weekly: “There will be a Moscow Exhibition of Arts by 15,000 Soviet Republic painters and sculptors. These were executed over the past two years.”
  • Instructions on a Korean flight: “Upon arrival at Kimpo and Kimahie Airport, please wear your clothes.”
  • Aeroflot advert: “Introducing wide boiled aircraft for your comfort.”
  • Belgrade hotel elevator: “To move the cabin, push button for wishing floor. If the cabin should enter more persons, each one should press a number of wishing floor. Driving is then going alphabetically by national order.”
  • Athens hotel: “Visitors are expected to complain at the office between the hours of 9 and 11 A.M. daily.”
Those are some of our favorites. Have you seen any funny examples of translation gone wrong in your travels? Let us know!The Funniest Examples of Translation Gone Wrong | LinguaLinx



You do not have to travel far!
  1. Due to the Rector’s illness, Wednesday’s healing services will be discontinued until further notice.
  2. Bertha Belch, a missionary from Africa, will be speaking tonight at Calvary Methodist. Come hear Bertha Belch all the way from Africa.
  3. The Rev. Merriwether spoke briefly, much to the delight of the audience.
  4. On a church bulletin during the minister’s illness: GOD IS GOOD; Dr. Hargreaves is better.
  5. Applications are now being accepted for 2 year-old nursery workers.
  6. The pastor will preach his farewell message, after which the choir will sing, “Break Forth Into Joy.”
  7. If you would like to make a donation, fill out a form, enclose a check, and drip in the collection basket.
  8. Next Sunday Mrs. Vinson will be soloist for the morning service. The pastor will then speak on “It’s a Terrible Experience.”
  9. Don’t miss this Saturday’s exhibit by Christian Martian Arts.
  10. We are grateful for the help of those who cleaned up the grounds around the church building and the rector.
  11. A worm welcome to all who have come today.
  12. Barbara remains in the hospital and needs blood donors for more transfusions. She is also having trouble sleeping and requests tapes of Pastor Nelson’s sermons.
  13. During the absence of our pastor, we enjoyed the rare privilege of hearing a good sermon when J.F. Stubbs supplied our pulpit.
  14. Irving Benson and Jessie Carter were married on October 24 in the church. So ends a friendship that began in their school days.
  15. The ushers will come forward and take our ties and offerings.
  16. The rosebud on the altar this morning is to announce the birth of David Alan Belzer, the sin of Reverend and Mrs. Julius Belzer.
  17. The eighth-graders will be presenting Shakespeare’s Hamlet in the church basement on Friday at 7 p.m. The congregation is invited to attend this tragedy.
  18. Don’t let worry kill you off – let the church help.
  19. Please place your donation in the envelope along with the deceased person(s) you want remembered.
  20. Let us join David and Lisa in the celebration of their wedding and bring their happiness to a conclusion.
  21. Helpers are needed! Please sign up on the information sheep.
  22. Diana and Don request your presents at their wedding.
  23. The concert held in Fellowship Hall was a great success. Special thanks are due to the minister’s daughter, who labored the whole evening at the piano, which as usual fell upon her.
  24. The outreach committee has enlisted 25 visitors to make calls on people who are not afflicted with any church.
  25. Low Self-Esteem Support Group will meet Thursday at 7 to 8:30p.m. Please use the back door.
  26. The 1991 Spring Council Retreat will be hell May 10 and 11.
  27. The audience is asked to remain seated until the end of the recession.
  28. Remember in prayer the many who are sick of our church and community.
  29. 22 members were present at the church meeting held at the home of Mrs. Marsha Crutchfield last evening. Mrs. Crutchfield and Mrs. Rankin sang a duet, The Lord Knows Why.
  30. The choir invites any member of the congregation who enjoys sinning to join the choir.
  31. At the evening service tonight, the sermon topic will be “What is Hell?”. Come early and listen to our choir practice.
  32. The third verse of Blessed Assurance will be sung without musical accomplishment.
  33. The music for today’s service was all composed by George Friedrich Handel in celebration of the 300th anniversary of his birth.
  34. A song fest was hell at the Methodist church Wednesday.
  35. Today’s Sermon: How Much Can a Man Drink? with hymns from a full choir.
  36. Hymn: “I Love Thee My Ford.”
  37. Miss Charlene Mason sang “I will not pass this way again” giving obvious pleasure to the congregation.
  38. Women’s Luncheon: Each member bring a sandwich. Polly Phillips will give the medication.
  39. Announcement in the church bulletin for a National PRAYER & FASTING conference: “The cost for attending the Fasting and Prayer conference includes meals.”
  40. The church will host an evening of fine dining, superb entertainment, and gracious hostility.
  41. Ushers will eat latecomers.
  42. Tuesday at 4PM there will be an ice cream social. All ladies giving milk will please come early.
  43. Weight Watchers will meet at 7 p.m. Please use large double door at the side entrance.
  44. Potluck supper: prayer and medication to follow.
 
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Word derived from the Greek γίγας (in LXX.), denoting a man of extraordinary stature; in the English versions the rendering for three Hebrew words: (1) "Nefilim" (see Fall of Angels), Gen. vi. 4a, an extinct (mythological, only semihuman) race, inhabitants of the earth before the Flood, the progeny of the Bene Elohim and the daughters of men. In Num. xiii. 33 this name is used of the pre-Israelitish population of Palestine. Gen. vi. 4b calls them the (2) "Gibborim" = mighty men. In the singular in Job xvi. 14 this word is translated "giant" (but R. V. margin, "mighty man"). (3) "Refa'im" (A. V. "Rephaim"), a collective appellation for the pre-Canaanite population settled both east and west of the Jordan and described as of immense height (Deut. iii. 11; II Sam. xxi. 16-21); the singular occurs as "rafah" (with the definite article, "the giant"; II Sam. xxi. 16, 18, 20, 22) or "rafa'" (I Chron. xx. 4, 6, 8). In the account of the war of the four kings (Gen. xiv.) the Rephaim are mentioned among the defeated (verse 5), along with the Zuzim (= Zamzummim), the Emim, and the Horim, peoples cited in Deut. ii. 10, 11, 12, 20, 21 asautochthons of Palestine; with the exception of the last-mentioned, they were said to be "powerful and numerous and tall," and considered to be Rephaim like the Anakim, the context showing that the Horim as well as the Avim (Deut. ii. 23), even if not explicitly described as such, were also deemed to have belonged to these prehistoric Palestinian tribes. In Gen. xiv. the Rephaim are enumerated along with the Kenites, the Hittites, etc., as being in the land in Abraham's time. Before the conquest, OG, the King of Bashan, is mentioned as the only survivor of the Rephaim (Deut. iii. 11) east of the Jordan, while the Anakim were located west of the river (Num. xiii. 22; Josh. xiv. 12-15, xv. 13; Judges i. 20), as well as among the Philistines (Josh. xi. 21, 22). Even near Carmel (Josh. xvii. 15) they were settled, and the name "valley of Rephaim" (Josh. xv. 8, xviii. 16) indicates their early presence near Jerusalem (comp. "Avim," a Benjamite city, Josh. xviii. 23). Under David these giants are connected with Gath (I Chron. xx. 6-8). Goliath (I Sam. xvii.), Ishbi-benob, Saph (= "Sippai"; I Chron. xx. 4), Goliath the Gittite ("Lahmi, the brother of Goliath the Gittite"; I Chron. xx. 5), and a man of great stature with 24 fingers and toes (II Sam. xxi. 16, 22; I Chron. xx. 4-8), are mentioned as born to "the giant." This giant may have been the Goliath that was slain by David, or the phrase may mean that these men were of the breed of the giants living at Gath.

see Fall of Angels); and these are described as
V05p658002.jpg
("that guided the world"). But the final ם in the fragments as reproduced by Schechter looks like a possible ש followed by the line for abbreviations, which would give the reading [
V05p658003.jpg
]
V05p658004.jpg
, meaning "who ruined the world" (by their violence,
V05p658005.jpg
; comp. Enoch vii. 3, 4). These giants are descended from the fallen angels; three thousand ells is their height; and they comprise three classes: the original giants, who begot the Nefilim, to whom in turn were born the Eliud (Book of Enoch, vii. 2; and the Greek Syncellus [Charles, "Book of Enoch," p. 65]). In the Book of Jubilees the last-mentioned are called "Elyo" (vii. 22). These three classes correspond to the three names employed in Gen. vi. 4 = "Nephilim," "Gibborim," and "Anshe ha-Shem" (i.e., "Anakim"; "Elyo" is certainly a misreading for the abbreviation
V05p658006.jpg
). In the Book of Jubilees these three are described as being unlike (vii. 22), which Charles and Littmann (in Kautzsch, "Pseud-epigraphen") read as signifying "they fought with one another." It is more likely that this contains a reminiscence of the midrashic conceit according to which Adam before the Fall was of gigantic stature (Ḥag. 12a), but in consequence of his sin was reduced to ordinary human proportions, and in addition lost the "demut" (likeness) to God (Midrash ha-Gadol to Gen. vi. 4, ed. Schechter). These giants, though molded like Adam before the Fall, "were not like" God; while they were exempt from the forfeiture of original stature, they, like man, had lost the demut (comp. Enoch, xv.). The Rabbis hold that these giants had seven names: (1) "Emim," because whoever saw one of them was seized with terror. (2) "Rephaim," because their sight made people "soft" (fearful) like wax. (3) "Gibborim," because their brains alone measured 18 ells. (4) "Zamzummim," because they inspired fear and were fierce warriors. (5) "Anakim," because they wore huge necklaces in great numbers (see also Anakim). (6) "Avim," because they destroyed the world and were themselves destroyed. According to another authority, this name was due to their knowledge of the soil, which was as subtle as that of the serpent ("'iwya," the Galilean for "serpent"). (7) "Nefilim," because they caused the world to fall and fell themselves (Ber. R. xxvii.). The description "Anshe ha-Shem" (Men of the Name) is interpreted as "men of destruction" (ib.). The cabalistic commentators (Recanate, among others) allege that they were called "Men of the Name" because they imparted to men the mysteries of the Divine Name and the names of demons, to conjure therewith. For doing this some of their kind had their noses pierced and were suspended from the dark mountains so that never again could they see the sun (see Grünbaum, "Sprach-und Sagenkunde," p. 72, Berlin, 1901). The Anakim were the sons of the Nefilim (Pirḳe R. El. xxii.), and the giants Og and Sihon were the sons of Ahiah ("Ḥiya" in the Midrash Abkir), the son of Shemḥazai, the fallen angel (Niddah 61a). Some of these giants had feet 18 ells in length (Deut. R. i.), and the same length is given for the thigh-bone (Buber, "Tanḥuma," Debarim, addition 7). Numerous rows of teeth are also ascribed to them (Ḥul. 60a). They were very voracious, eating as many as a thousand oxen, horses, and camels each day (Midrash Abkir). Relying upon their great size, and upon the power of their enormous feet to stop the rising waters, they ridiculed Noah's warning (see Flood in Rabbinical Literature). According to other versions that were inspired by a desire to attenuate the expression sons of Elohim" (see Fall of Angels), the giants were the progeny of the union of the Sethites and the Cainite women ("Das Christliche Adamsbuch," p. 140, note 70; Ephraem Syrus, "Opera," ii. 477; Lagarde, "Materialien," p. 65; Eutychius, i. 26; Ibn Ezra to Gen. vi. 2). The "Shalshelet ha-Ḳabbalah" (ed. Venice, p. 92b) reports that Seth had commanded his descendants to keep aloof from the daughters of Cain. Seven generations obeyed his injunction, but they then cohabited with the accursed breed, and the result was the birth of the Anakim, the perpetrators of all kinds of evil. These giants led a most shameful life, thus causing God to send the Flood. This is also the view taken by Arabic authors. Ṭabari (i. 127 et seq.) records that Adam had enjoined the Sethites to avoid the Cainite women, but that the latter seduced them by bewitching music and by their personal charms heightened by cosmetics (see also Baiḍawi to sura xxiii. 33); they were also accustomed to adorn themselves with pearl necklaces (from the rabbinical interpretation of the name "Anakim," "'anaḳ" meaning neck). The same story is told of the generation of Sethite-Cainite giants by Ibn al-Athir (i. 41) and Ya'ḳubi (p. 7; comp. "Die Schatzhoehle," ed. Bezold, ii. 18).

see Eliezer). Arabic writers (Ṭabari, i. 193; and Ibn al-Athir, i. 51) quote this escape of Og as a "Jewish" story ("according as the people of the Torah fancy"). According to Mohammedan tradition, Og was a son of Noah's sister, and survived his uncle 1,500 years, being killed by Moses (see Bemidbar Rabbah to Num. xxi. 34; Tan., Ḥuḳḳat, ed. Buber, 55; Pseudo-Jonathan to Num. xxi. 34). The story of his death runs as follows: When Og saw the camp of the Israelites, six parasangs in area, fearing lest his fate be a repetition of Sihon's he proposed to kill them all at once. He broke off a mountain and lifted itabove his head to throw it upon the Israelites. But God sent a worm which bored a hole into the mountain so that it fell upon Og's neck, his teeth becoming imbedded in it. Moses, taking a mace ten ells long, beat the ankles of Og until he died (comp. "Sefer ha-Yashar," and Ber. 54b, where ants perforate the mountain). The Arabic historians relate similar stories (Ṭabari, i. 50 [Zotenberg transl. i. 391]; Ibn al-Athir, i. 137). Og's height is given by Ḳazwini (i. 449) as 23,330 ells; he lived 3,600 years. The waters of the Flood reached only to about the middle of his body. In Parḥon's "Maḥberet," s.v.
V05p659001.jpg
, as in Ḳazwini (l.c.), it is a bird,
V05p659002.jpg
, that splits the mountain.

Ishbi-benob (II Sam. xxi. 16) is another giant-hero of a Talmudical legend. Into his hand God delivered David on account of the destruction of the priest-city Nob and other misdeeds, Satan masquerading as a deer leading David in pursuit to the land of the Philistines, that Ishbi-benob, the brother of Goliath, might discover him and do him harm. The giant bound David and laid him on the ground under an olive-tree and an oil-press. But by a miracle the earth softened under him and thus saved him from being crushed. All this happened on Sabbath eve. Abishai, the son of Zeruiah, when making his toilet detected blood in the vessel (according to others, it was a dove in distress that he beheld), which circumstance apprised him of David's danger. Looking for the king in his house and then in the bet ha-midrash, and not finding him, he inquired whether it was lawful to mount a royal horse (on Sabbath) when the king was in peril of his life. Receiving permission, he mounted the steed and was carried to the place with miraculous velocity (the earth jumping so that the intervening space vanished), killing the giant's mother on the way. Upon Abishai's approach, Ishbi-benob, taking hold of David, hurled him high into the air, and placed his sword in position so that the king in his fall would be cut to pieces. But Abishai pronounced "the Name," which kept David suspended in mid-air. Descending then in safety, David apprised Abishai of all that had happened. Both ran away, which induced the giant to pursue them; but on reaching the place where Orpah, the giant's mother, had been killed, they turned and despatched the giant (Sanh. 95a; Shoḥer Ṭob to Ps. xviii. 37; Gen. R. lix.; see Goliath). The Pelishtim (in Gen. x. 14) were identified with the giants, while the Caphtorim were said to be dwarfs (Gen. R. xxxvii.). Men of giantlike stature were warned not to marry women of like proportions, lest a "mast" (very tall being) be born unto them (Bek. 45b). Gigantic stature is considered a blemish rendering a priest unfit for service (Sifra to Lev. xxi. 21; Pseudo-Jonathan to Lev. xxi. 20).

—In Arabic Literature:
The Hebrew "nefilim bene 'Anaḳ" (Num. xiii. 33) are called "jabbarun" in the Koran (sura v. 25), and "jababirah" in other works, both words being the plural of "jabbar" (giant). In the Koran (l.c.) giants are mentioned in connection with the twelve spies sent by Moses to explore the land of Canaan. According to Mas'udi, the giants were of the Amalekite race. The Arabian writers speak particularly of 'Uj (Og) ibn 'Unḳ (Og with the Neck), for the reason that when he went out to fight Moses he tore out a mountain and put it on his head with the intention of throwing it upon the Israelites and crushing them; but God sent a bird that bored a hole in the mountain, which thereupon fell on Og's neck. According to Moslem legends, in the eyes of the giants the twelve spies appeared as small as ants (comp. "grasshoppers," Num. l.c.).

The Arabs call Jericho "the city of giants," but their traditions do not agree as to which leader of the Jews fought against the giants. According to Ibn 'Abbas, Moses died in the wilderness, and the land of the giants was conquered by Joshua; but Mohammed ibn Isḥaḳ writes that Moses himself fought the giants at Jericho. Those who survived were led by a certain Ifriḳish ibn Ḳais to Africa, and, having killed the king of that country, settled there. The Berbers are their descendants.GIANTS - JewishEncyclopedia.com
 
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In Apocalyptic Writings. The conception of fallen angels—angels who, for wilful, rebellious conduct against God, or through weakness under temptation.thereby forfeiting their angelic dignity, were degraded and condemned to a life of mischief or shame on earth or in a place of punishment—is wide-spread. Indications of this belief, behind which probably lies the symbolizing of an astronomical phenomenon, the shooting stars, are met with in Isa. xiv. 12 (comp. Job xxxviii. 31, 32; see Constellations). But it is in apocalyptic writings that this notion assumes crystallized definiteness and is brought into relations with the theological problem of the origin and nature of evil and sin. That Satan fell from heaven with the velocity of lightning is a New Testament conception (Luke x. 18; Rev. xii. 7-10). Originally Satan was one of God's angels, Lucifer, who, lusting for worldly power, was degraded. Samael (Yalk., Gen. 25), originally the chief of the angels around God's throne, becomes the angel of death and the "chieftain of all the Satans" (Deut. R. xi. ; comp. Matt. xxv. 41).

But it is especially Samḥazai and Azael of whom the fall is narrated. In Targ. Pseudo-Jonathan to Gen. vi. 4 they appear as the "nefilim" (A. V. "giants"), undoubtedly in consequence of an incorrect interpretation of this word as "those that fell from heaven." The story of these two angels is found in brief form in Yalḳ., Gen. 44; it has been published by Jellinek ("B. H." iv. 127; originally in Midrash Abkir; comp. Rashi, Yoma 67b; Geiger, "Was Hat Mohammed aus dem Judenthume Aufgenommen?" p. 107).

see God, Names of), by virtue of which he was éo return to heaven. As soon as she was possessed of the secret, she rose to heaven herself, and God rewarded her constancy by assigning her a place in the constellation of Kimah. Samḥazai and his companion thereupon took to themselves wives and begat children (comp. the bene Elohim, Gen. vi. 4). Meṭaṭron soon after sends word to Samḥazai concerning the approaching flood. This announcement of the world's and his own children's impending doom brings Samḥazai to repentance, and he suspends himself midway between heaven and earth, in which penitent position he has remained ever since. Azazel, who deals in rich adornments and fine garments for women, continues in his evil ways, seducing men by his fanciful wares (hence the goat sent to Azazel on the Day of Atonement).

Variants of this story are not rare. According to Pirḳe R. El. xxii., "the angels that fell from heaven," seeing the shameless attire of the men and women in Cain's family, had intercourse with the women, and in consequence were deprived of their garment of flaming fire and were clothed in ordinary material of dust. They also lost their angelic strength and stature. Samael was the leader of a whole band of rebellious angels (ib. xiii.).

In the Book of Enoch eighteen angels are named (Enoch, vi. 7) as chief participators in the conspiracy to mate with women. Samiaza is the leader, and Azael is one of the number (but see Charles, "Book of Enoch," p. 61, note to vi.-xi.). Azael, however, imparts to men all sorts of useful as well as secret knowledge and the art of beautifying eyes (Enoch, viii. 1; comp. Targ. Pseudo-Jon. to Gen. vi. 4). For other versions of the story or reminiscences thereof, see Book of Jubilees, v. 1, 6-11; vii. 21, 25; Test. Patr., Reuben, 5, and Naphtali, 31; Josephus, "Ant." i. 3, § 1; Philo, "De Gigantibus."

Later Jewish Tradition.
The later Jewish tradition, shocked at the notion of the angels' fall, insisted upon interpreting the bene Elohim of Gen. vi. 1-4 as referring to men (Gen. R. xxvi.: "sons of judges"; comp. Tryphon in Justin, "Dial. cum Tryph." p.79). The Samaritan version reads V05p333002.jpg; Onḳelos, V05p333003.jpg. The "Sefer ha-Yashar" ("Bereshit," end) ascribes the shameful conduct to magistrates and judges (see Charles, "Book of Jubilees," p. 33, note).

The cabalists give the older view. In the Zohar (iii. 208, ed. Mantua) Aza and Azael fall and are punished by being chained to the mountains of darkness. According to another passage (i. 37), these two rebelled against God and were hurled from heaven, and they now teach men all kinds of sorcery (for other quotations from cabalistic commentaries on the Pentateuch see Grünbaum, "Gesammelte Aufsäze zur Sprach- und Sagenkunde," p. 71).

Allusions to these fallen angels occur also in the Koran (sura ii. 96); but their names are there given as "Harut" and "Marut." Their fate in Arabic tradition is identical with that of Samḥazai and Azael (Geiger, l.c. p. 109). The refusal to worship Adam (suras ii. 32, vii. 11, xv. 29, xxxviii. 73) brings on the Fall, just as it does in the Midrash Bereshit Rabbati of R. Moses ha-Darshan (see Grünbaum, l.c. p. 70).FALL OF ANGELS - JewishEncyclopedia.com
 
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Job 1 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one who feared God and eschewed evil.

2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.

3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred sheasses, and a very great household, so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the East.

4 And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day, and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.

5 And it was so, that when the days of their feasting were ended, Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, “It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus did Job continually.

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, “From whence comest thou?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down upon it.”

8 And the Lord said unto Satan, “Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one who feareth God and escheweth evil?”

9 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not Thou made a hedge about him and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? Thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance hath increased in the land.

11 But put forth Thine hand now and touch all that he hath, and he will curse Thee to Thy face!”

12 And the Lord said unto Satan, “Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand.” So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

13 And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother’s house,

14 and there came a messenger unto Job and said, “The oxen were plowing and the asses feeding beside them,

15 and the Sabeans fell upon them and took them away. Yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword, and I only have escaped alone to tell thee!”

16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another and said, “The fire of God hath fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep and the servants, and consumed them; and I only have escaped alone to tell thee!”

17 While he was yet speaking, there came also another and said, “The Chaldeans made up three bands, and fell upon the camels and have carried them away, yea, and have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only have escaped alone to tell thee!”

18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another and said, “Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother’s house,

19 and behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only have escaped alone to tell thee!”

20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground and worshiped,

21 and said, “Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither. The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”

22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
 
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Lilith’s name comes from the Sumerian word ''lilitu'', which meant a wind spirit or a female demon. Lilith was mentioned in the Tablet XII of the Epic of Gilgamesh, a famous poem of ancient Mesopotamia dated back to not later than c. 2100 BC. The tablet was added to the original text much later, c. 600 BC, in its later Assyrian and Akkadian translations. She appears in a magical story, where she represents the branches of a tree. She is described with other demons, but researchers still argue if she was a demon or a dark goddess. At the same time, she appeared in early Jewish sources, so it is difficult to find out who mentioned her first. However, it is obvious that from the beginning of her existence in the texts she was related to Sumerian witchcraft.Lilith: Ancient Demon, Dark Deity or Sex Goddess?
 
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Jude
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, “Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousand of His saints

15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all who are ungodly among them of all their godless deeds which they have godlessly committed, and of all the harsh speeches which godless sinners have spoken against Him.”

quotes Enoch which is where an interpretation of Genesis 6 has them as angels or demons.

The Book of Enoch upheld this belief.

"And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: ‘Fear not, Enoch. . . . And go, say to the Watchers of heaven [angels], who have sent thee to intercede for them: “You should intercede for men, and not men for you: Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons. . . ? And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin. . . . And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them [Book of Enoch 15].(R. H. Charles, The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, 2 vols. (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1913; reprint, Berkeley: Apocryphile Press, 2004) 2:198.)
 
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Lily of Valleys

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Who were the Nephilim?
Nephilim were first mentioned in Genesis 6:4 and the King James Version translated Nephilim as giants. They already existed before and after the sons of God came in to the daughters of men:

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. (Genesis 6:4 NASB)
The other two mentions are in Number 13:33:

There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight. (Number 13:33 NASB)​

As to what it means by the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, the two links below provide the most comprehensive analysis of the different views in my opinion:

 
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Sanoy

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OK---and this is the last thing I will say---free will and recreating our God given bodies into something else are not the same thing. The angels in heaven did not need to change their bodies to earthly ones in order to sin. The angels, in fact were created long before there were humans--they were in place before creation week and fell before there were humans created. Satan did not become human in order to tempt Eve, nor did he become a snake--he did appear as one.
Trying to remember something I left behind 40 years ago is not something I like to do. I just remember fishlike creatures as part of Sumerian culture, and have no desire to delve into such garbage again. I left that with my tarot cards. If you want to believe in these Sumerian creatures--that is between you and God, but I suggest you spare God's wrath about it by indoctrinating others with your false believes. There is no place in Christianity for Sumerian sages and demigods and such creatures. God never needed the help of any of Satan's angels to instruct us about anything. They deal only in lies and half truths. And it is your choice as to what voice to believe. I completely rejected that voice 40 years ago.
If you wish to believe scholars, ancient or modern, that agree with your theories, that is also your choice. I choose those that make sense in light of who God is based on the entirety of the bible. I will not divert my salvation into areas that God has not sanctioned. Neither Jew nor Christian retains the book of Enoch in either of their cannons---only the Ethiopian does. I will not go back there again. Satan is working towards the day he will lead humanity in a great deception, and he is setting the ground work for it--it is these ideas that will influence the gullible into believing his lies and half truths away from the clearly stated word of God. I really do not want to live long enough to see those last days--they have already started---I'd much rather wait in the grave until His return than witness such things nor do I want to be a part of Satan's plans in duping others into his web of lies and distortion--there is a price to pay for being on his side--I pray you do not pay it. Good bye.

No it's not free will, it's the ability to act upon free will. Humans act upon a naturalistic range of free will. Angels act upon a supernatural range of free will, after all, they are not natural. So the idea that they can't perform a supernatural act like taking on a body to interact with humans...which is their job...is mistaken. I don't think Satan appeared as a snake and there is incredibly good evidence for that, but that is another matter.

Oh okay, so your statement that I 'have given not one single new nor different insight' isn't really true is it. And where did you read about the Apkallu and the Igigi 40 years ago? There was no internet, so it was in a hard bound book somewhere. What book? Let me guess you don't remember. Did it tell you that Igigi meant watchers as I mentioned? I am just curious as to how you knew that when I translated it myself from a Sumerian lexicon. Not to mention that the link between the Apkallu and the watchers was only really established in the last decade. Most of the scholarship on this stuff is rather recent. There are no shades to the truth mmk, things are either true or untrue in regards to behaving morally. Actually you should know about Sumerian culture because that is where you will learn about Nimrod, and that is where you will learn about the corruption of the world before the flood and after it by demonic forces with similarities to what is happening today. Do not cheapen your behavior further by suggesting that I worship other Gods because I research history.

I don't need a scholar to tell me any of these things. The Bible literally calls them giants. All you have to do is open it and read it without inserting your preset biases.

You may have just described the great deception. "Neither Jew nor Christian retains the book of Enoch in either of their cannons". The Book of Enoch incontrovertibly contains scripture so you may actually be a part of the great deception by teaching against it. The Jews also reject the book of wisdom, because that and Enoch contain prophecy of the coming Messiah that predate his coming.
 
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Sanoy

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(3) "Gibborim," because their brains alone measured 18 ells.
Very interesting
search


Numerous rows of teeth are also ascribed to them (Ḥul. 60a).
Can you tell what source is being used here "Hul. 60a". There are literally thousands of newspaper clippings from the US describing giant sized discoveries, some of which were depicted to have double rows of teeth. The common criticism is that they mistook their size, which, if they did, would still make them goliath size. But I have wondered about those clippings that describe double rows of teeth. It would be interesting if there were a source prior to those clippings that speaks of it.
 
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mmksparbud

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Not to mention that the link between the Apkallu and the watchers was only really established in the last decade. Most of the scholarship on this stuff is rather recent.

Hogwash--you have no idea what you can get into when you mess with tarot cards and such--I left it alone for reasons!!! Enough--say what you will---I do not care!
I have no intention of going back over those old memories--I worked hard to forget them.

I believe it is best that I put you on ignore. Only done this once in all the time I've been here. Satan is a wily creature and I implore you one last time to leave this line of thinking. I leave you with my old memories--to no longer visit. Best thing to do with him is to say---"Get thee behind me."
 
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Sanoy

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Hogwash--you have no idea what you can get into when you mess with tarot cards and such--I left it alone for reasons!!! Enough--say what you will---I do not care!
I have no intention of going back over those old memories--I worked hard to forget them.

I believe it is best that I put you on ignore. Only done this once in all the time I've been here. Satan is a wily creature and I implore you one last time to leave this line of thinking. I leave you with my old memories--to no longer visit. Best thing to do with him is to say---"Get thee behind me."
Tarot cards? I really have no idea what you are talking about. I mean, I know what Tarot cards are, but what they have to do with this disagreement is beyond my understanding. The correlation comes from the discovery of a plaque reading "watchers" on a Sumerian house that contained the clay figurines in the foundation. This is obviously a very stressful topic for you so I don't want you to explain that. I merely wish to point out that I have no idea what you are a talking about. If anyone else can explain that please do.

Surely we can disagree on something without you accusing me of being possessed by Satan. It's unfair to project whatever happened with you in the past onto me. I have done absolutely nothing wrong here, I have merely defended my position. That said I must agree this is too much for you, ignore me if that helps or forget the whole thing.
 
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